Article: Message to Twins: Accountability Means Change

[Marta Shearing]

When Frank Cashen took over as GM of

the Mets he signed George Foster to a big contract. He admitted that he knew Foster wouldn't make the Mets competitive but he wanted to send a message to the fans and players that they were trying to improve.

 

One or two moves a season and suddenly you have the '86 Mets. By '86 Foster was terrible and they got rid of him mid-season, but the message had been sent that losing wasn't acceptable.

Excellent point

[howieramone1406390264]

Can I go one step further? How about a little less arrogance that you've got things under control when the ship has pretty much sank for three years? Yeah, you might think you can bring it up off the ocean floor, but quit telling us what an awesome captain you are.

I don't recall Ryan being called arrogant before, nor have I ever heard or read anything that even resembles him telling us what a awesome captain he is, even once.

[notoriousgod71]

I don't recall Ryan being called arrogant before, nor have I ever heard or read anything that even resembles him telling us what a awesome captain he is, even once.

 

He may not have said those words but I agree, that's how he and the entire Twins organization has come off the last six years.

[drivlikejehu]

I don't recall Ryan being called arrogant before, nor have I ever heard or read anything that even resembles him telling us what a awesome captain he is, even once.

 

Actually, he's done pretty much exactly that, and as recently as this week!

 

In another thread he was quoted talking about how, for a long time, other organizations looked to the Twins as a model, with the obvious implication being that the 'Twins Way' is the right way.

 

And now he arrogantly clings to the same approach even though everyone else has moved on. His unmistakable view is that, indeed he is an awesome captain, and when his ships sink its due to circumstances outside of his control.

[Kwak]

It comes down to the definition of success. Is it? A) be the Cubs; millions of people love us win or lose so pump up the volume of good cheer, happy talk, and Minnesota Nice and the owners will rake in the cash be like the Vikings; lots of good cheer, banter, countless Central Division Champion banners flying--waiting for the inevitable butt-kicking in the post-season followed by tears in the beer all while the owners rake in the cash; C) be like Atlanta--lengthy periods of success (including championship) followed by short periods of stink before resuming long-term success--and apparently their owner also rakes in lots of cash too; D) be like Arizona, keep a low payroll and try to build for one super-year in ten. Oh, and the owner rakes in the cash. Which model?

[Richie the Rally Goat]

What form do you believe 35 year old Willingham should return to? The career year he had for us at age 33?

 

Doumit's OPS the last 5 years have been .714, .738, .830 (only half a season), .781 and .710. What do you think is reasonable to expect from him?

 

Where are these three average to above average starting pitchers going to come from? We needed them last year too. We were told last offseason the rotation would be greatly improved. This isn't a new need.

 

Hicks and Arcia...yes...we need them to develop...for long term.

I have been until very recently on the "fire Gardy" bandwagon until recently. While I have gotten off that wagon, I still feel like without change, the Twins will continue to be one of the worst teams in baseball.

 

like you say, we needed 3 high end pitchers last year, and all we got was corriea and pelfrey. We can hope for improvement from underperforming players, but I don't think there were any underperformers on this club, the vets played exactly like you would expect, and the rookies need to develop but that takes time. Again, if you don't change, how can you expect different results?

 

Is TR beholden to Mackey? I would argue that if the team was performing in the top half of the league, no. Mackey is just a journalist. The way this team has performed puts TR under the microscope, and everyone gets a peak.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

Can I go one step further? How about a little less arrogance that you've got things under control when the ship has pretty much sank for three years? Yeah, you might think you can bring it up off the ocean floor, but quit telling us what an awesome captain you are.

The Titanic has already sailed.

[Otwins]

One excellent place to make a change without firing someone is the 7th coach they are talking about. Why not add someone from outside the organization? What do we have to lose other than another 96 games

[Marta Shearing]

I'm not a Phil Mackey fan, but Ryan's comment on him was a pot shot. Completely uncalled for. Unprofessional. It was a legitimate question. Answer it.

[Bark's Lounge]

One excellent place to make a change without firing someone is the 7th coach they are talking about. Why not add someone from outside the organization? What do we have to lose other than another 96 games

 

My guess is the Twins Hire Glynn or Molitor to coach 3B (most likely Glynn) and reassign Vavra to Assistant Hitting Coach.

 

In truth, I do not think this will happen - but wouldn't that be a mind (bleep) if it did.

 

Personally, I am not super stoked about the decisions the Twins have made very early into this offseason and after the crap that's been served to us fans the last few years - My motto is "Seeing is Believing". "Blind Faith" is an obsolete term.

 

I guess we'll see what happens... Fasten your seat belts folks.

[Riverbrian]

I don't think he is accountable Seth. He refuses to acknowledge the terrible job he did assembling this team. Anytime he says otherwise I feel its just lip service. If he was under budget from the bosses, why cover that up? That is the only logical explanation.

 

I don't doubt his long-term plan to get talent into the organization, I do doubt his short-term ability. He can't just keep telling fans to wait for Buxton and Sano.

 

To be fair... I can't recall Terry Ryan ever saying "Wait for Buxton and Sano".

 

I can recall Terry Ryan acknowledging that the responsibility for the roster is on him... And he has taken that responsibility every time.

[beckmt]

I think a little of this is the wait and see. All of us want the Twins to be better, but it is easy to spend the owners money from this vantage point. Pitching will be hard to get in the offseason, but it is possible. And I will be disappointed if we do not sign at least 1 decent (#1 or #2) type starting pitcher.

[Shane Wahl]

291 losses in three seasons is not enough of an indictment of Gardenhire and Ryan? These are the two to lead the Twins forward? This just seems so bizarre to make this claim.

[Shane Wahl]

We all know, right, that "change" is not going to occur. I mean that is clear. The status quo is acceptable.

[Nick Nelson]

Well put... he definitely is accountable and he's not taking it lightly. I don't care what he or others say publically. Let's see what happens. As I've said before. When he came back, he told me that he would not take shortcuts. I believe in that philosophy. I know many don't, but I definitely don't want panic and overreaction either.

What exactly is "taking shortcuts"? Does that mean actually attempting to be competitive before your prized prospects arrive? Because personally I don't see anything wrong with it. No one is suggesting anything that endangers the future outlook.

[Shane Wahl]

What is the definition of a shortcut? I don't even know how to begin to understand that in this context.

[Highabove]

Can I go one step further? How about a little less arrogance that you've got things under control when the ship has pretty much sank for three years? Yeah, you might think you can bring it up off the ocean floor, but quit telling us what an awesome captain you are.[/quote

[The Wise One]

Fascinating thread. There are those that dislike Ryan. Your choice. One person calls him arrogant, multiple chime in the same. Arrogant because he once said Twins way. Now they are losing so he is arrogant. Feel free to correct me but WTF is wrong in baseball with stressing fundamental error free baseball. Twins way in building under Ryan part 1, draft well, trade pieces under the sell high, buy low theory. Have the Twins strayed from the Twins Way? In the office and in the field about like a TD thread does from the OP. That does not make them arrogant.

[The Wise One]

What exactly is "taking shortcuts"? Does that mean actually attempting to be competitive before your prized prospects arrive? Because personally I don't see anything wrong with it. No one is suggesting anything that endangers the future outlook.

 

Giving players Gil Meche contracts, buying high with non surplus prospects on trades to get better now. That would be my idea of what trying to take a shortcut is. It leaves you with something you can't get rid of and thin on talent.

[TheLeviathan]

The only person I've heard suggest a shortcut was Ryan when he implied even Sano or Buxton could be available in a trade.

[Mike Sixel]

To be fair... I can't recall Terry Ryan ever saying "Wait for Buxton and Sano".

 

I can recall Terry Ryan acknowledging that the responsibility for the roster is on him... And he has taken that responsibility every time.

 

 

But if he keeps his job, keeps doing what he has been doing, and nothing changes, how is that any different than me saying I take responsibility? What do those words mean, if there is no change?

[notoriousgod71]

Dusty Baker reportedly out as Reds manager despite making the playoffs the last two seasons. He didn't win a game. I'd love for him to come over here and "ruin" some of our arms so I never have to see Diamond, Correia, Pelfrey, Hendricks, Devries again.

[ThePuck]

To be fair... I can't recall Terry Ryan ever saying "Wait for Buxton and Sano".

 

I can recall Terry Ryan acknowledging that the responsibility for the roster is on him... And he has taken that responsibility every time.

 

He hasn't mentioned them by name, but he has pointed to the farm system and said help is on the way. On top of being unwilling to get quality FAs, being unwilling to trade quality prospects for proven MLB talent and the lack of quality players on the MLB roster to trade for quality MLB talent/quality prospects, it boils down his words, mixed with his action/inaction, to saying...wait for the prospects.

[Nick Nelson]

Giving players Gil Meche contracts, buying high with non surplus prospects on trades to get better now. That would be my idea of what trying to take a shortcut is. It leaves you with something you can't get rid of and thin on talent.

 

I don't see how signing a player to a Gil Meche type contract would be so misguided. The Royals signed a hard-throwing 28-year-old pitcher with some potential to a four-year deal and for the first 2.5 seasons it worked out brilliantly. They couldn't have anticipated that injuries would ruin his career at age 30. I'd love to sign an under-30 pitcher with upside to a multi-year deal and don't see how that would equate to a "shortcut." And if you think that committing $10-15M to a pitcher 3-4 years down the line is going to cripple the Twins financially, then you don't have a very good understanding of this team's fiscal outlook.

 

As for trading non-surplus prospects in trades to get better now... as Lev said, I haven't seen anyone suggest that possibility other than TR himself.

[Steve Lein]

Yup, pretty much agree with everything said here, Nick. ->

[Shane Wahl]

If the "field manager" isn't really impactful, why don't the Twins save money and sign some cheap dude to run the team? Aaron Gleeman's a cheap dude, right? . . . . . .

[Boom Boom]

If the Twins are expecting to see Sano and maybe Buxton some time in 2014, how is acquiring good free agents in the meantime taking a shortcut? And what about the future HOF player whose prime years are wasting away while TR is kicking the can down the road?

[Badsmerf]

Fascinating thread. There are those that dislike Ryan. Your choice. One person calls him arrogant, multiple chime in the same. Arrogant because he once said Twins way. Now they are losing so he is arrogant. Feel free to correct me but WTF is wrong in baseball with stressing fundamental error free baseball. Twins way in building under Ryan part 1, draft well, trade pieces under the sell high, buy low theory. Have the Twins strayed from the Twins Way? In the office and in the field about like a TD thread does from the OP. That does not make them arrogant.

1. Terry Ryan is arrogant because he refuses to acknowledge that the "Twins Way" doesn't work. He refuses to make any changes to the manager and a pitching coach that has tanked this team. They scuff at any comment regarding statistical analysis saying they got a guy. If I need to keep expanding, you haven't been paying attention to him in the last few months.

 

2. Stressing fundamentals and error free baseball is what every organization does. Some, are just better at it than others. Sometimes you just don't have the talent to follow through.

 

3. The Twins haven't traded pieces at high value ever. They routinely have made bad trades or held on too long. Span and Revere were good trades, but Santana, Hardy, Cuddy, Kubel, even Willingham and Doumit are missed opportunities.

 

4. The product of 3 horrible seasons is on Terry Ryan. I don't see how he is getting a pass from some people.

[Mike Sixel]

btw, how is a "shortcut" evil/bad/wrong, exactly?

 

A shortcut gets you to your destination faster.......how is that bad? Still waiting for someone to explain how signing a legit FA this year is a bad idea......

[Alex]

I'd add that "not taking shortcuts" is pretty darn arrogant just by itself as if there is an accepted "right" way to do things and another "easier" way to get better faster that is somehow less ethical or worse.