Article: Dissension on Spending?

[gunnarthor]

I think Ryan is more at risk than Gardenhire. His insistence on not spending through free agency is growing untenable. I wouldn't be shocked if he's shown the door at the end of the year unless he can acquiesce to building a winner in the near term, which necessarily involves free agency.

 

I can't disagree with this more (so watch Ryan get fired next week). Ryan hasn't been back at the GM job long enough for the Pohlad's to fire him. And they clearly knew that Ryan was going to be going low-payroll when they brought him back (and Smith wanted to keep or increase payroll, is my guess). He has a track record and good relationship with the Pohlad family. Ticket sales at TF this year were pretty good considering the quality of the team (higher than Pitt and Balt). And obviously the farm system is a lot better than it was just a couple years ago.

 

He was interim-GM last year and he took the interim label off this year. The Pohlads had to know how he'd run the team and give it their blessing. No way he's gone.

[Oxtung]

You honestly can't see what the Twins are doing? I mean, I think it's ok to disagree but it's pretty clear the FO is building for the future around a core of Sano and Buxton. They aren't getting distracted and ignoring the best talent (ie taking someone like Gausman to fix a present need over Buxton). They aren't adding parts that will negatively impact the 2015 and beyond teams (ie, paying Jackson 10m/year). They are moving talent at good times - both Span and Revere were traded at pretty good times to maximize their return. They've made nice use of waiver claims and rule v picks. They've made some nice FA signings that won't adversely affect the rebuild. And the first wave of talent came up this year when Gibson, Hicks and Arcia debuted and Dozier and Florimon established themselves as decent MI options (esp defensively). Next year we'll see Meyer, May, Sano and possibly Buxton and Rosario.

 

I mean, we can argue about how they dot the i's and cross the t's. But to say that the Marlins, who really, really screwed over their fans and still have a worse farm system than us, are in better shape seems to be purposefully antagonistic. Maybe the Twins should have let Mauer go to the Red Sox last year in a waiver claim, dropped payroll to 20m and fought for the #1 pick (Rodon seems like he could be a true ace) but I don't think that would have gone over that well with the fans (and the Red Sox sure weren't going to take on his salary and give us Bogaerts). I do think Ryan should have traded Perkins this year and I hope he moves him this offseason. But that's the i's and t's.

 

 

The Cubs, Marlins and Astros have all made trades to improve their minor leagues so that is a wash. They have all drafted good players, so again, that's a wash.

 

The Marlins are going to build around Fernandez and Stanton which is what we hope Meyer and Sano become. They also have 9 other players considered top 100 prospects either on their roster or will be on their roster within the next 2 years. The Cubs have Rizzo and Castro with another 5 top 100 prospects on the way including Baez who is basically Sano but might actually stick at SS for a few years (although with Castro he might slide to third anyways). The Astros have 13 top 100 players either with the squad or on their way. The trio of Correa, Springer and Appel would give Buxton, Sano and Meyer a run for their money. So talented youngsters seems to be a wash.

 

Waiver claims, rule V signings and FA's like Pelfrey and Correia aren't going to help this team return to contention. They are just stop gaps until someone better comes along.

 

I advocated for trading Mauer last off season with the correct assumption the Twins weren't going to sign any high end FA's. He would have brought back prospects and the Twins could have payed as much of his salary as was required to increase the return.

 

So, my question isn't "What are the Twins doing?" but rather is "What are the Twins doing that other clubs aren't?" What is giving the Twins the edge in the "return to contention" race?

[Major League Ready]

The Astros have decided the best way to return to contention is to burn it down, be terrible and draft as high as they can. They sold all the assets they have.

 

The Marlins signed a bunch of big name free agents then traded them for several quality prospects (that may not have been the intention at the beginning but it the result). They too have shipped off most of their veterans and are now integrating their prospects into what will hopefully be a playoff team soon. Sooner than the Twins I'd wager, if they can find a way to keep Stanton.

 

The Cubs signed the most consistent pitcher available last off season to try and help stabilize their rotation and while it hasn't worked so far that doesn't mean it was a bad move (personally I expect him to rebound next season nicely). They have traded some of the assets they acquired during the offseason. I think the single biggest move they made is to attack international free agency with reckless abandon. They spotted a loophole and the exploited it to what looks like will be their advantage. By the way, the Cubs W/L record might be bad but their runs scored/runs allowed is 100 runs better than the Twins. That is a massive difference. It seems to be sheer blind "luck" that the Cubs record is as bad as it is this season.

 

All 3 of these teams have a set path they have taken to return to contention. They have identified some nitch in the system they believe will help them return to contention better than the rest of the rebuilding teams. The Twins on the other hand don't seem to be choosing any path to maximize their chances. The Astros, Marlins and Cubs might not all be immediately successful with their approaches but at least one can look at them and see what they are trying to do. One can acknowledge they have a plan and they are doing everything in their power to make that plan return them to relevance faster/better/longer than their competitors. How exactly are the Twins maximizing their chances of returning to contention?

 

Let's keep in mind the origin of the question/response was why aren't the Twins doing more to get better. You can't possibly argue that getting rid of everyone so you can suck as a positive example.

 

Miami's situation simply affirms the fragility of a plan to build around free agency. AT least they got something out of it and they might have considered dumping those players as a fall-back position from the start. I am not sure that will serve them in the future free agent market but they got some good young players. Toronto then proved the fragility of the same plan for ateam that was further along. It cost them a chunk of their their farm system to make that mistake.

 

I have no problem at all with Chicago's approach. Just like the Twins, they were really active in the FA SP market. You could make a case the only difference was that TE had an easier time convincing players to come to CHC as compared to TR convincing SPs to come to MN.

[diehardtwinsfan]

I wrestle back and forth with the Twins and free agency. I think there's a few things that you have to accept as fact before going forward.

 

1) You cannot build a contender solely from FA. Perhaps if there are 15 allstars out there on the market, you could do it, but reality is that you cannot.

2) This team has so many holes that free agency cannot fill them all.

 

People are making a big deal from Ryan's quote, but I find it strange to admit that very few people are willing to accept the obvious here. He's right, you cannot build a winner via free agency. The ideal FA aquisition is getting that all star to play at that position of weakness for a contending team. I won't argue with the people who don't like Ryan in that I don't think he would do this even if it was 2010 all over again.

 

That said, I think the question at hand would be this. Would you rather get a few decent FAs and move a 90 loss team to an 80 loss team, or if you are lucky, high 70s, at the expense of a better draft position to stock up on star talent and potentially handicapping the team's ability to get a ring down the road vs. a few years of absolutely miserable performance to stock up on talent that may not all work out and potentially put you back in this mess?

 

To me, this is the philosophical debate we are having, and it captures the downside of each of these moves. Overpaying for a few FAs won't suddenly turn this team into a contender, though it may make them more palatable to watch in the short term. Long term, it means lesser talent coming through the system and bigger contracts which could hamstring future moves. On the other hand, stocking up with prospects is far from guaranteed. They flame out... often. Where would this team be if one of Buxton or Sano turned into a dud?

 

I tend to lean towards the prospects route personally. They can flame out, but if you have enough of them, you'll do fine. The Twins are building a nice farm system, the problem is that they are about 8 months away from starting to graduate them in mass. While doing a big signing would be nice, you don't want to block any of these guys, which means getting 3 pitchers in FA wouldn't be very wise. Getting 1 pitcher in FA would be, but then you have the problem that said pitcher might be dragging the team down in 2016/17 as these prospects establish themselves.... It's a tough conundrum to be in. That's personally why I think they should be targeting guys like Abreau/Tanaka, who are young enough that they should perform during their contract. But that likely means more bumps in 2014...

[Oxtung]

Let's keep in mind the origin of the question/response was why aren't the Twins doing more to get better. You can't possibly argue that getting rid of everyone so you can suck as a positive example.

 

Miami's situation simply affirms the fragility of a plan to build around free agency. AT least they got something out of it and they might have considered dumping those players as a fall-back position from the start. I am not sure that will serve them in the future free agent market but they got some good young players. Toronto then proved the fragility of the same plan for ateam that was further along. It cost them a chunk of their their farm system to make that mistake.

 

I have no problem at all with Chicago's approach. Just like the Twins, they were really active in the FA SP market. You could make a case the only difference was that TE had an easier time convincing players to come to CHC as compared to TR convincing SPs to come to MN.

 

Why are you denigrating the Astros approach? The Twins are almost as terrible and yet they won't be getting the #1 pick. They also aren't going to be receiving the prospects that Mauer and Perkins could have brought them. The Astros on the other hand brought back all the prospects they could and are ensuring themselves the top pick in the draft for several years. They are maximizing their opportunities. What's better being honest about a complete rebuild and doing everything in your power to make it happen or claiming meaningful games in September while slashing payroll and simultaneously not committing to the full rebuild?

 

IMO the Astros are the better run organization currently even though they have far less resources both monetarily and at the major league level.

 

What does Toronto's trades have to do with Miami's FA binge or how the Twins could be maximizing their attempt of returning to contention?

[gunnarthor]

So, my question isn't "What are the Twins doing?" but rather is "What are the Twins doing that other clubs aren't?" What is giving the Twins the edge in the "return to contention" race?

 

Twins, Cubs, Marlins and Astros all made trades to improve their farm system so it's a wash? And they've all drafted and it's a wash? Well, then the Twins, like every other team, also made FA signings, so that's a wash.

 

Realistically, the Twins have the best farm system in the majors. They are doing that better than other teams.

[Oxtung]

Twins, Cubs, Marlins and Astros all made trades to improve their farm system so it's a wash? And they've all drafted and it's a wash? Well, then the Twins, like every other team, also made FA signings, so that's a wash.

 

Realistically, the Twins have the best farm system in the majors. They are doing that better than other teams.

 

The Cubs, Marlins, Astros and Twins have all had top 10 picks the last 2 seasons and will again in 2014. The talent brought in is going to be similar though not exactly the same. The Cubs have traded for 2 top 100 prospects and a very intriguing C.J. Edwards. The Astros have traded for 4 top 100 prospects. The Marlins have traded for 5 top 100 prospects. The Twins have acquired 1 (perhaps 2 if you include May) top 100 prospect. Looks like the Twins are actually behind in the prospect accumulation race.

 

The best farm system is almost a worthless accolade (and quite frankly it is debatable if the Twins have the best). It is a snapshot of exactly 1 moment in time. The more pertinent question is who has the most young, impact talent? IMO that is hands down the Marlins followed by the Astros. The fact that some of the Marlins talent is already successful in the majors is actually a bonus but isn't accounted for in the minor league analysis.

 

So again, what are the Twins doing to gain a competitive edge?

[IdahoPilgrim]

So again, what are the Twins doing to gain a competitive edge?

 

What would be your advice and plan?

[ThePuck]

The best farm system is almost a worthless accolade (and quite frankly it is debatable if the Twins have the best). It is a snapshot of exactly 1 moment in time. The more pertinent question is who has the most young, impact talent? IMO that is hands down the Marlins followed by the Astros. The fact that some of the Marlins talent is already successful in the majors is actually a bonus but isn't accounted for in the minor league analysis.

 

So again, what are the Twins doing to gain a competitive edge?

 

Here's something interesting about farm system rankings. At the end of 2009, Baseball Prospectus named the Twins the 9th best system.

 

Here are the players they specifically referred to. Revere, Robertson, Mulvey, Guerra, Ramos, Benson, McCardell, Humber, Slama, Delaney, Hicks, Parmelee, Manship, Morales, Mijares. Our best and most talented.

 

Top 10 ranking then hasn't done us much good, so far..

[gunnarthor]

So again, what are the Twins doing to gain a competitive edge?

 

It seems like you're going out of your way to make the Twins system seem bad. Ignore the accolades of the minor league system but at the same time congratulate other teams that have lesser systems. As pointed out, the Twins system graduated Hicks, Gibson and Arcia this year and still have what is generally considered the best system. They found a solid MI duo for the first time in ... ever.

 

I mean, at a certain point, if the answer isn't "they have better young players coming up according to industry experts" than I don't think anything would work. It seems like you are trying to ignore every thing that suggests a rebuilding plan and then say they don't have a plan. Presumably your argument ends with something like "the Twins need to spend more money in FA."

[Oxtung]

What would be your advice and plan?

 

There are several options.

 

1) The Twins could follow the Astros and trade Mauer and Perkins (Willingham too if he'd bring anything back) go young, suck and receive a top 1 or 2 draft pick.

 

2) The Twins could spend in FA, even if that means overpaying, with the intent of flipping those guys a la the Marlins of 2012.

 

3) The Twins could spend in FA on long term high upside contracts to bring in talent so that when our minor league talent arrives there is a solid core already in place and we could contend immediately.

 

4) The Twins could go in on Cuban or Japanese FA's.

 

5) The Twins could have been creative like the Cubs on international FA's covered by the spending cap.

 

6) The Twins could have put their excess cash to work by hiring some of the best and brightest analytical minds available to create an edge in identifying talent for the future.

 

I'm sure there are more options but those are off the top of my head. I have my preference but right now that doesn't matter. I just want the Twins to stop wasting resources; to do everything in their power to return this team to competitiveness.

[DJL44]

"you don't want to block any of these guys, which means getting 3 pitchers in FA wouldn't be very wise"

 

There are 5 open spots in the rotation and you need 6 guys minimum to get through a season. Getting 3 pitchers in free agency wouldn't block anyone.

[gunnarthor]

There are several options.

 

1) The Twins could follow the Astros and trade Mauer and Perkins (Willingham too if he'd bring anything back) go young, suck and receive a top 1 or 2 draft pick.

 

2) The Twins could spend in FA, even if that means overpaying, with the intent of flipping those guys a la the Marlins of 2012.

 

3) The Twins could spend in FA on long term high upside contracts to bring in talent so that when our minor league talent arrives there is a solid core already in place and we could contend immediately.

 

4) The Twins could go in on Cuban or Japanese FA's.

 

5) The Twins could have been creative like the Cubs on international FA's covered by the spending cap.

 

6) The Twins could have put their excess cash to work by hiring some of the best and brightest analytical minds available to create an edge in identifying talent for the future.

 

I'm sure there are more options but those are off the top of my head. I have my preference but right now that doesn't matter. I just want the Twins to stop wasting resources; to do everything in their power to return this team to competitiveness.

 

I think he wanted more specifics. You have the benefit of hindsight. What would you have done after last season? I agree the Twins should have (and still could) trade Perkins. But that doesn't mean they aren't rebuilding effectively. And if you want them to go the tank route, how would you make them 10 losses worse so they could get the #2 pick or 17 losses worse to get that #1 pick? And if you think they'd get top prospects while not paying Mauer's salary, I think you're incredibly wrong.

[ThePuck]

Well, entering 2009 BA listed the Twins top 10 as Hicks, Revere, Ramos, Mijaries, Valencia, Swarzak, Hunt, Mulvey, Gutierrez and Morales. And after the 2009 season, they listed Hicks, Ramos, Gibson, Sano, Revere, Valencia, Gutierrez, Morales, Bromberg, Kepler.

 

So, let's see. We have a few solid pros in Revere and Ramos. The top power prospect in Sano. Some good BP arms in Swarzak and Mijaries. A future OF starter in Hicks and SP in Gibson. Valencia had one good season. Kepler is still a prospect. Not a bad group. Baseball Prospectus must have missed a few names there.

 

And Baseball America ranked the Twins farm system #22 in 2009. Baseball Prospectus must have really like Slama. 2009 Organization Talent Rankings - BaseballAmerica.com

 

That's the organizational talent ranking of 22, includes the Major league talent, I believe.

 

In any event, what you're saying is, the farm system rankings are flaky and have to be taken with a grain of salt. EXACTLY how I feel. And if we are to believe BAs ranking there, MAN, Ryan left our farm system in a shambles.

 

BTW, I specifically annotated the rankings I provided were done end of 2009, not the beginning of 2009. At the end of 2009, BA had the FARM SYSTEM between 6th and 15th.

 

http://www.smoaky.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=104026

[Oxtung]

It seems like you're going out of your way to make the Twins system seem bad. Ignore the accolades of the minor league system but at the same time congratulate other teams that have lesser systems. As pointed out, the Twins system graduated Hicks, Gibson and Arcia this year and still have what is generally considered the best system. They found a solid MI duo for the first time in ... ever.

 

I mean, at a certain point, if the answer isn't "they have better young players coming up according to industry experts" than I don't think anything would work. It seems like you are trying to ignore every thing that suggests a rebuilding plan and then say they don't have a plan. Presumably your argument ends with something like "the Twins need to spend more money in FA."

 

Great, the Twins have one of the top farm systems this season. Does that mean that Fernandez and Stanton don't exist for the Marlins? Or that Castro and Rizzo don't for the Cubs? How about the 5 players aged 22 or 23 for the Astros? So yes, it's great that the Twins have a strong farm system, but the more pertinent question is who has the most young and impactful talent. That isn't the Twins.

 

And I'll lay this out there one more time hoping you pick up on the difference. The question isn't "do the Twins have a plan" but rather "are they maximizing their opportunity?" Disagree with their approach but the Cubs, Marlins and Astros are definitely trying to maximize their returns from their respective approaches.

[IdahoPilgrim]

I think he wanted more specifics.

 

I was just genuinely curious as to what he would do differently. Saying the Twins are doing it wrong doesn't help anything. Highlighting areas where changes to the current method of operations might be lead to more effectiveness can lead to a positive discussion.

 

Of the 6 he mentioned, I would see #6, updating their scouting and analysis infrastructure, as the one that can have the most impact long-term and provide a cutting edge, and it wouldn't cost all that much (certainly much less than a top-line FA pitcher).

 

#2-5 are all basically the same - spend on FA. That's been covered enough for my taste in this thread so I won't add my thoughts, other than it is highly dependent on who is available year to year, and that I understand the concerns about getting FAs and flipping them the same year - it could hurt the ability to recruit FAs in the future.

 

#1 - trading Mauer is somewhat problematic, given his no-trade clause and given that he is, rightly or wrongly, in the eyes of many fans the face of the franchise. But for the right return I'm open to it. Same with Perkins - for the right return. I am not one of those who advocates becoming Houston and playing for draft picks - just not the way I'm built. When I'm at the ballpark I want to see a win; I don't care about the impact on draft position. I understand others feel differently and that's fine.

[IdahoPilgrim]

The one thing I would add as something that should be looked at is not just acquiring prospects but are we being effective in translating them into true major league talent. I don't know the numbers on this, but certainly anecdotal evidence shows we are falling short in developing pitching.

 

Rather than spending money on FA, I'd like to see more put into helping our current and future prospects truly reach their potential - if that means more money in minor league training, identifying needed coaching talents, etc - whatever needs to be done.

 

They say the draft is somewhat of a crapshoot once you get beyond the first few picks. Anything we can do to increase the chances of finding and developing talent will help give us a competitive edge.

[nicksaviking]

You honestly can't see what the Twins are doing? I mean, I think it's ok to disagree but it's pretty clear the FO is building for the future around a core of Sano and Buxton.

 

That's a very vague gameplan. I think you are missing the point. As Ox said, the Astros and Marlins went scorched earth on their roster and clensed it of nearly all vetran filler that was taking up roster spots and taking away playing time from young players. From this point forward it's go young or go home for them. The Cubs spent big on international free agents and signed a bunch of pitchers on short term deals in the hope of flipping them for more prospects.

 

The Twins don't seem to be following a plan. Sitting on your hands does not cut it. The Twins have a handful young players up playing meaningful ball but they mostly have a bunch of veterans and older journeymen minor-leaguers. Ryan Doumit is still starting most days, a rebuilding team doesn't do that. Many of these vets/filler look to be competing for roster spots next year despite the fact they do not look to be a possible solution for the long term. A rebuilding team should not have this many players ages 27 or older on the roster. No the Twins do not seem to have a clear game plan other than blind faith in the prospects.

[gunnarthor]

And I'll lay this out there one more time hoping you pick up on the difference. The question isn't "do the Twins have a plan" but rather "are they maximizing their opportunity?" Disagree with their approach but the Cubs, Marlins and Astros are definitely trying to maximize their returns from their respective approaches.

 

I guess we've gotten to the point where it's just shouting around each other. The Twins in the last two years seem to have done a lot right for a rebuild. They drafted the best prospect in the game when the Astros failed to. They traded Span and Revere at the height of their value. They debuted a bunch of rookies who seem to be both major and complementary parts of the future nucleus. They didn't give up on guys who they think will be parts moving forward. They got rid of pieces they didn't think would be part of it. They didn't mortgage the future on silly FA signings or poke the fans in the eye. We can quibble with the i's and t's but it seems they are doing as much as the Cubs, Astros and Marlins are.

[gunnarthor]

 

BTW, I specifically annotated the rankings I provided were done end of 2009, not the beginning of 2009. At the end of 2009, BA had the FARM SYSTEM between 6th and 15th.

 

BASEBALL AMERICA's annual ranking of MLB farm systems - Major League Baseball - The Smoakhouse Forums

 

Yeah, I couldn't find any link specific for the end of 2009, so I just used the pre and post years.

[gunnarthor]

That's a very vague gameplan. I think you are missing the point. As Ox said, the Astros and Marlins went scorched earth on their roster and clensed it of nearly all vetran filler that was taking up roster spots and taking away playing time from young players. From this point forward it's go young or go home for them. The Cubs spent big on international free agents and signed a bunch of pitchers on short term deals in the hope of flipping them for more prospects.

 

The Twins don't seem to be following a plan. Sitting on your hands does not cut it. The Twins have a handful young players up playing meaningful ball but they mostly have a bunch of veterans and older journeymen minor-leaguers. Ryan Doumit is still starting most days, a rebuilding team doesn't do that. Many of these vets/filler look to be competing for roster spots next year despite the fact they do not look to be a possible solution for the long term. A rebuilding team should not have this many players ages 27 or older on the roster. No the Twins do not seem to have a clear game plan other than blind faith in the prospects.

 

What young guy isn't getting playing time right now? (Doumit has started 11 of the last 21 games) Parmelee?

How are the Twins sitting on their hands? Since Ryan came back he traded Span, Liriano, Morneau, Revere and Butera. He found a pair of 26 year olds that can play the middle infield going forward. As mentioned, Hicks, Gibson and Arcia all debuted this year. Pinto seems to be a nice piece as well. The Twins got old and their prospect well dried up. They have to get it going again.

 

So, even with the benefit of hindsight, what would you have done at end? Trade Willingham for Sean Gilmartin? Let Mauer go to the Red Sox through waivers? Outbid other teams for certain players?

[Oxtung]

I guess we've gotten to the point where it's just shouting around each other. The Twins in the last two years seem to have done a lot right for a rebuild. They drafted the best prospect in the game when the Astros failed to. They traded Span and Revere at the height of their value. They debuted a bunch of rookies who seem to be both major and complementary parts of the future nucleus. They didn't give up on guys who they think will be parts moving forward. They got rid of pieces they didn't think would be part of it. They didn't mortgage the future on silly FA signings or poke the fans in the eye. We can quibble with the i's and t's but it seems they are doing as much as the Cubs, Astros and Marlins are.

 

I've acknowledged each of those points in previous posts then pointed out how the Cubs, Astros and Marlins are all doing those same things (and in many cases better than the Twins are). In addition those three teams have also taken further steps to return to contention.

 

Yes the Twins are doing some things for the future but they have yet to make a creative move that wasn't written down in the "this is how you rebuild" playbook. If you want to call that "quibbling over the i's and t's" that is just fine. The other bottom feeders have each made a creative move which means the Twins aren't doing as much as the other rebuilding teams are doing.

[Jack Torse]

Terry Ryan is the fall guy for the Pohlad's cheap ways. TR is okay with that and knows it's part of the deal. He will spend close to every penny the Pohlads allow him saving room for incentives, waiver pick ups, etc. It's folly to believe TR spends less than the Pohlads allow him. To put it simply, Bill Smith wouldn't be that person and was disillusioned (like many) by what the new stadium revenue really meant and hence the "philosophical indifferences" and he was out. It's that simple.

[Timtwinsfan]

Hicks, Arcia, Gibson, and Pinto all were able to get their feet wet in the majors this year and all should play bigger roles next year. It isn't outside of possibility that Sano, May, Meyer, Rosario, and Buxton could do the same next year. Prospects don't just bring talent to the mlb club but a huge amount of financial flexibility. The pohlads could easily sign several FAs to 3-4 year deals that will help now but won't interfere with signing the prospects which turn out to be good mlb players long term.

Did you watch many games last year with Hicks and Gibson playing? Gibson wasn't that good at Rochester why would he be that good in the big leagues. Did you follow Hicks? Will he be re-born? Did you watch his at bats or watch him strike out. He shouldn't have been playing in the big leagues, that was the Twins mistake not his.

[boomerb5]

Both Pohlad and Ryan wind up getting their way. Instead of a free-agent, the team deals for a guy under contract (or arbitration-eligible), and maybe even kicks in cash to pay some of the salaries traded away. Money spent. But not through free-agency.

[Dman]

Terry Ryan is the fall guy for the Pohlad's cheap ways. TR is okay with that and knows it's part of the deal. He will spend close to every penny the Pohlads allow him saving room for incentives, waiver pick ups, etc. It's folly to believe TR spends less than the Pohlads allow him. To put it simply, Bill Smith wouldn't be that person and was disillusioned (like many) by what the new stadium revenue really meant and hence the "philosophical indifferences" and he was out. It's that simple.

 

 

I agree TR is the fall guy for the Pohlad's but I don;t think the Pohlads are tying his hands from spending. He can spend up to the 100 Million mentioned on this board any time he wants to. TR just isn't a believer in spending money on FA's to build a team. He is waiting for the prospects to develop and then when he see's the holes left might fill it with a FA. He can spend but he won't thus the difference in quotes between him and Mr. Pohlad TR will take the heat for the Pohlads for not spending though and I don't think he will get much of an argument from Mr. Pohlad. From what we have seen from TR he doesn't know how to rebuild any other way than what he is doing right now.

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

The Twins don't seem to be following a plan. Sitting on your hands does not cut it. The Twins have a handful young players up playing meaningful ball but they mostly have a bunch of veterans and older journeymen minor-leaguers.

 

Statements like this make it really hard to take what are saying with anything but a grain of salt. The Twins are clearly following a rebuilding plan. Whether or not you are I like it is beside the point, but there is a plan. I get your frustration with Doumit, but that one is on Gardy who continues to play him at the expense of guys like Parmelee. That said, I also think that this is one of many reasons why Gardy will not be managing next year.

 

The Twins are clearly rebuilding, and they are doing it their way (hence trading Span, Morneau, and Revere and somehow blackmailing the Dodgers into Sulbaran). They are also making it clear that they won't be calling up guys until they are ready. So you aren't going to see Sano or Buxton waste a couple of years of ML service time before figuring thing out. The roster filler consists of guys who are getting tryouts to see if they are long term fixtures. This is how we ended up with Fein, Burton, and possibly Deduno. Young guys like Presley, Dozier, Plouffe, Parmelle, and Colabello are getting a shot. I don't have a problem with this. It sucks because the product on the field sucks, but that's how you discover that Dozier really can be a long term option to complement the next wave, and it's quite possible that one or two others turns into solid options as well. Those will have value when Sano, Buxton, and Meyer are all up.

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

Yes the Twins are doing some things for the future but they have yet to make a creative move that wasn't written down in the "this is how you rebuild" playbook. If you want to call that "quibbling over the i's and t's" that is just fine. The other bottom feeders have each made a creative move which means the Twins aren't doing as much as the other rebuilding teams are doing.

 

Why in the world do they need to do something "creative"? Trading Span for Meyer is text book for "this is how you rebuild" as was Revere for Worley and May. Trading Morneau, Butera, and Liriano was as well. That's exactly how you rebuild.

[cmathewson]

I can't disagree with this more (so watch Ryan get fired next week). Ryan hasn't been back at the GM job long enough for the Pohlad's to fire him. And they clearly knew that Ryan was going to be going low-payroll when they brought him back (and Smith wanted to keep or increase payroll, is my guess). He has a track record and good relationship with the Pohlad family. Ticket sales at TF this year were pretty good considering the quality of the team (higher than Pitt and Balt). And obviously the farm system is a lot better than it was just a couple years ago.

 

He was interim-GM last year and he took the interim label off this year. The Pohlads had to know how he'd run the team and give it their blessing. No way he's gone.

 

1. The owner says he wants to spend whatever it takes to put together a winner.

2. The GM says he will only spend if he thinks his team is ready for the World Series already. Ergo, he will not spend money.

 

If Ryan continues to defy his boss, he will not last long.

[Oxtung]

Why in the world do they need to do something "creative"? Trading Span for Meyer is text book for "this is how you rebuild" as was Revere for Worley and May. Trading Morneau, Butera, and Liriano was as well. That's exactly how you rebuild.

 

Baseball is a zero sum game. Your loss is my win. Right now teams are doing more and better than the Twins and consequently we are losing the game. In the highly competitive world of MLB a team needs to find a competitive edge and right now the Twins don't have one. The Twins won't win the World Series until they find one.