Article: Eddie Rosario as a Trade Chip

[stringer bell]

I haven't suggested the Twins will do this, I've just suggested they should do this. What else are they going to do with these throw away games if they aren't going to go the experiment/experience route?

 

I doubt they move him, but even if they don't try it this year, I don't think it's out of the questiong considering the last couple of years the Twins called up Colabello and Parmelee and plugged them right into RF despite the fact they hadn't played the position the entire season in AAA.

The Twins seem to put a premium on defense in the middle infield. Two guys, with pretty good hitting potential, Todd Walker and Trevor Plouffe were moved in large part because of their defense. With the parade of miscast, declining or just plain bad defensive outfielders--Delmon, Revere, the Hammer, Colabello, Doumit, Cuddy--it is safe to assume that defense isn't quite as big a component for corner outfielders.

[Cc-twinsball]

I don't think Theo would want the world. He's not his kind of player anyways. I think a reasonable package I think would be; Brian Dozier, Travis Harrison, and Dalton Hicks. We take on Starlin Castros contract, and I think we could swing a deal.

[nicksaviking]

A thought. Dozier and package (Harrison, Santanta) for Starlin Castro. Take a shot. They have Baez coming up, he had a down year. Sell low.

 

The problem with a team with a 2B surplus trading with a team with a SS surplus is that the team with all the SS could easily move one of them to 2B, which is likely what the Cubs will do with one of their many SS prospects. They've also got #2 overall pick Kris Bryant for 3B, I'm thinking the rebuilding Cubs would much prefer their young middle infielders to Dozier and the Twins infielders.

[Jham]

And by prospects not living up to the hype in "most cases", I think we can safely assume that Sano and Buxton will not be "most cases".

 

Delmon Young and Jesus Montero were "can't miss" too. Ask the Royals about "can't miss prospects". The question that should be asked is if we have a contingency plan in case Sano turns out to be Adam Dunn and not Miguel Cabrera and Buxton ends up being an Elsbury and not a Trout.

 

You can never have too much talent. Trading one talented player for several is a key to sustainable Big League success. If you want one player, buy them in free agency... then trade him.

[Cc-twinsball]

The problem with a team with a 2B surplus trading with a team with a SS surplus is that the team with all the SS could easily move one of them to 2B, which is likely what the Cubs will do with one of their many SS prospects. They've also got #2 overall pick Kris Bryant for 3B, I'm thinking the rebuilding Cubs would much prefer their young middle infielders to Dozier and the Twins infielders.

I'm just not sure. Junior Lake will play second I'm assuming, Javier Baez will play short, and Kris Bryant at third. Then at first there's Anthony Rizzo. I think Castro is odd man out. They might just take on Dozier to be a fill in for a year or so for Lake or Baez. Plus they get prospects. New deal for Castro would be; Brian Dozier, Aaron Hicks, And Travis Harrison (who could move to corner outfield position).

[nicksaviking]

The Twins seem to put a premium on defense in the middle infield. Two guys, with pretty good hitting potential, Todd Walker and Trevor Plouffe were moved in large part because of their defense. With the parade of miscast, declining or just plain bad defensive outfielders--Delmon, Revere, the Hammer, Colabello, Doumit, Cuddy--it is safe to assume that defense isn't quite as big a component for corner outfielders.

 

That's true, though they did try the defensively challenged Cuddyer at 2B more than once. They also went with the rangeless and aging Orlando's at 2B in consecutive years and traded superiour JJ Hardy to take a flier on a Japanese SS they knew next to nothing about.

 

I don't disagree with you, but I think they have overlooked middle infield defense for varoius reasons in the past With the struggle of the offense, I wouldn't be surprised if they did it again to get as many weapons as possible in the lineup some time next year.

 

Also, Dozier was a pretty bad SS last year, but he was pretty good in the minors. If the Twins beleive that 2012 was the exception offensively, I think should at least entertain the idea that it was the exception defensively also.

[stringer bell]

Even if the younger player turns out to be the better player, I don't think it is necessarily a mistake to move Rosario. If the projections are close for the Twins, they will have one long term veteran (Mauer) surrounded by players who either made their debut this year or will become big leaguers in 2014 or 2015. I think it might be a good idea to have a mix of ages and having a few older players around. Dozier is 26, Mauer is 30 and Rosario, Sano, Hicks, Buxton, and Arcia are 23 or younger. Keeping or acquiring a "middle-aged" player or two might provide a better, more stable, roster. I think the whole issue here is projection. The Twins need to "know" what Dozier is--the near All-Star he's been for three months or a replacement level player--and also what Rosario will be. Is he a .300 hitter with decent power and a good glove or is he less? Teams looking at acquiring either of Dozier or Rosario also need to project how good they will be and how soon. The Twins should have learned a couple things: 1) If you wait too long, you may end up with much less and 2) you have to give up talent to get talent when you make a trade.

[CGNikolic]

I hope they don't even consider trading Rosario. I personally think Dozier is not as good as he has been the past couple months and is likely somewhere in between what he was last year and this year, which is average at best. I do like Dozier, but lets not forget how good and valuable Rosario is and can be. Even right now, Dozier's OPS+ is just over 100, which Rosario should easily be able to top 2-3 years from now.

 

I say keep Rosario, move Dozier to shortstop, (his bat, if it produces more like 2013 than 2012, would be more valuable there anyway and I think his defense would be good enough), and enjoy the possibilities that an infield of Sano, Dozier, Rosario, Mauer and Pinto could produce starting in 2015. Along with an outfield of Buxton, Hicks and Arcia of course. And if moving Dozier does not work? Trade HIM and start either a stopgap at shortstop, or someone like Beresford/Florimon who could bat 9th in a lineup that could be very dangerous very soon.

 

We have other valuable trade chips to shop, such as Harrison, Santana, Goodrum, Polanco, Walker etc. who can be used as trade bait for better pitching. Rosario does not belong on this list.

[howieramone1406390264]

I'm just not sure. Junior Lake will play second I'm assuming, Javier Baez will play short, and Kris Bryant at third. Then at first there's Anthony Rizzo. I think Castro is odd man out. They might just take on Dozier to be a fill in for a year or so for Lake or Baez. Plus they get prospects. New deal for Castro would be; Brian Dozier, Aaron Hicks, And Travis Harrison (who could move to corner outfield position).

 

Castro is 23, with 6 years plus a club option for roughly 58M. I have no idea what it would take, but I think we should consider pursuing it. King Theo vs. Ryan would be worthy of pay for view.

[Dave T]

I'd rather have Rosario playing outfield than either Willingham or Arcia. If you're going to trade one of our blue-chip prospects, trade Arcia. The man is a strikeout machine.

[Cc-twinsball]

Castro is 23, with 6 years plus a club option for roughly 58M. I have no idea what it would take, but I think we should consider pursuing it. King Theo vs. Ryan would be worthy of pay for view.

I think that it's a true possibility this offseason. We have the financials to take that on, it's not a ridiculous contract by and means. It solidifies the no.2 hole for 6 years. It makes to much sense.

[nicksaviking]

The Twins should have learned a couple things: 1) If you wait too long, you may end up with much less and 2) you have to give up talent to get talent when you make a trade.

 

Yes, number one has been hurting this team the last decade, timing is everything. The Twins should have a huge advantage when deciding between two of their players; they should know these guys better than any other team. Though teams that utilize advanced metrics may be able to project them better.

[Alex]

And by prospects not living up to the hype in "most cases", I think we can safely assume that Sano and Buxton will not be "most cases".

 

The hype is relative, though.

 

The hype on Buxton is that he will be Mike Trout or better. The hype on Sano is that he's going to hit 40+HR a year and will be one of the best power hitters the organization has ever seen. Both of the these players could fall short of that and still be regular players, though. Hopefully it's not the worst case scenario, of course, where they don't manage even that.

[Alex]

Castro is 23, with 6 years plus a club option for roughly 58M. I have no idea what it would take, but I think we should consider pursuing it. King Theo vs. Ryan would be worthy of pay for view.

 

So, what's your limit?

[Cc-twinsball]

Final offer.

Cubs: Brian Doizer, Aaron Hicks, Travis Harrison, Dalton Hicks

Twins: Starlin Castro, Alberto Cabrera

[Jack Torse]

Would you give up an impact arm for nothing more than a solid 2b prospect?

[Cc-twinsball]

Who's the impact arm

[orangevening]

I'm in the opinion that it will be not that easy to move Dozier back to SS. Yes he was a SS in the minors, at the same time he REALLY seems like the type of player that his defense effects his offense and vice versa. You can't over estimate how much of a factor that Dozier being comfortable at 2nd has on his bat.

[Alex]

I'm in the opinion that it will be that easy to more Dozier back to SS. Yes he was a SS in the minors, at the same time he REALLY seems like the type of player that his defense effects his offence and vice versa. You can't over estimate how much of a factor that Dozier being comfortable at 2nd has on his bat.

 

He's been great in the field all year. His bat has only been good a couple of months.

[Nick Nelson]

Let me pose a hypothetical that seems plausible:

 

Would you trade Eddie Rosario and Max Kepler for Brett Anderson this offseason, presuming his medicals are satisfying?

[Cc-twinsball]

Let me pose a hypothetical that seems plausible:

 

Would you trade Eddie Rosario and Max Kepler for Brett Anderson this offseason, presuming his medicals are satisfying?

No. Prospects worth more than Anderson. I'm my opinion

[markos]

Let me pose a hypothetical that seems plausible:

 

Would you trade Eddie Rosario and Max Kepler for Brett Anderson this offseason, presuming his medicals are satisfying?

 

Intriguing name, but too much injury risk for me. He has barely pitched 150 innings in the last three seasons combined.

 

Since we are throwing names out, what do you think about Rosario and Kepler for Kris Medlen? Or what about Dozier and Kepler for Medlen? Atlanta may actual prefer that one. I'm leaning toward NO because Medlen only has 2 seasons of team control left. But if there was a reasonable contract extension included with the trade, then maybe. If there was 3 years of team control, then I would probably support it. Either way, I definitely wouldn't rip the trade if it did occur.

[Shane Wahl]

When I mentioned Santana and Harrison, I meant for the return to be similarly ranked prospects on the other team (the 10-15 range).

[Trevor0333]

The A's Brett Anderson or Jeff Smardizja from the Cubs could probably be had for Dozier. Both are due to be FA in 2015 so you'll have to resign them but they are established pitchers with some issues who have some potential to be retty good still.

[kab21]

I don't think you put either on the block but instead call all teams that have the type of starting pitcher that you want (2-4 years of control) and relatively good. At some point you can mention that one of these guys is available if that is what it takes to land the pitcher. The team needs starters but I don't think the strategy should be to enter the offseason trying to trade one of these guys. Just let it be known that any offensive players not named Mauer, Sano and Buxton are available for the right pitcher (minors or majors).

[Trevor0333]

Let me pose a hypothetical that seems plausible:

 

Would you trade Eddie Rosario and Max Kepler for Brett Anderson this offseason, presuming his medicals are satisfying?

 

Anderson is in the last year of team control next year, Rosario & Kepler is way too much IMO for 1 year of team control.

 

Dozier, Boyd, & Levi Micheal is more like what I would hope they would offer.

[jm3319]

Valencia got lucky and many were predicting a step backward. Maybe not a giant leap and then fall-on-his-face backward step, but regression none-the-less.

Plouffe was only good for ~45 days. The rest of his season was bad. Not even mediocre, just bad.

 

On the other hand, Dozier actually looks like the player we were told about in the minors. Steady hands, solid glove, good strike zone judgment. The only surprising thing is the power, which might decline next season. To boot, Brian's BABIP is quite a bit lower than expected, particularly for his style of play. He's not a speedster but he's not slow, either. Any downtick in power has a good chance of being balanced by an uptick in average and OBP.

 

That didn't stop some people from being absolutely convinced Plouffe had arrived and was a lock for 25-30 homers this year.....How'd that turn out?

 

Dozier needs far more than one season before he can be fully trusted.

[jorgenswest]

Can anyone think of a recent trade of a 2B that netted a good return?

 

Uggla was traded following a monster 2010 season for Florida. He netted another 2B in Infante and a LOOGY. Infante was coming off his best season, but he was 28 and mostly had a career in a utility role.

 

Teams can always find a way to fill 2B. No one is going to be desperate for Dozier or Rosario.

 

Starting pitching is the best currency in baseball followed by shortstop and centerfield. If Castro is made available, the Cubs will be looking for starting pitching.

[Shane Wahl]

If the Twins manage to make the right FA signings this offseason, some of this is moot. I am not trading Rosario or Dozier. Sorry.

[markos]

Can anyone think of a recent trade of a 2B that netted a good return?

 

Uggla was traded following a monster 2010 season for Florida. He netted another 2B in Infante and a LOOGY. Infante was coming off his best season, but he was 28 and mostly had a career in a utility role.

 

Teams can always find a way to fill 2B. No one is going to be desperate for Dozier or Rosario.

 

Starting pitching is the best currency in baseball followed by shortstop and centerfield. If Castro is made available, the Cubs will be looking for starting pitching.

 

Very good points. I dug around a little bit and I couldn't find any trades of note. Way to kill my trade speculation buzz...