Article: Ron Gardenhire talks September roster

[Kwak]

 

If he was on the team today he would hit .200 with 15 HR

 

But when he refines his approach Im hoping for 260 with 35 HR. Its going to be a lot of fun!

 

The Twins don't needanother .200 hitter with 15 HR! Let him "refine" for at least another year. His game vs Trenton didn't impress me that "he's ready" at all.

[Mr. Brooks]

The Twins don't needanother .200 hitter with 15 HR! Let him "refine" for at least another year. His game vs Trenton didn't impress me that "he's ready" at all.

 

Now we are using ONE GAME sample sizes?

[jorgenswest]

If the Twins are going to pay his salary, they need to get a reasonable prospect.

 

I doubt there is much interest. It really isn't a lot of money to a team if they thought he would make a significant difference. For Gardy, it may not be completely straight forward, but it is more respectful to Morneau to talk about money rather than talk about the fact that there is little interest in him.

[orangevening]

I believe Ryan has said he's inclined to send Sano home to rest up and be ready to go come spring training. He said Sano has played alot of baseball this summer and that the time off would probably be he best thing for him.

 

Yes, I read that too. That's why I didn't say "bring them up and play them everyday".

[Mike Sixel]

Funny, when I suggested they'd probably have Buxton take the winter off, everyone said I was crazy....now it makes sense for an older guy, who is used to the long grind, take time off?

 

I do agree, Sano and Buxton could probably use some time off. Makes sense to me, frankly.

[Major League Ready]

If Gardy had said: "I heard we didn't have strong suitors". Sure.

 

You are stretching to make this about value when Gardy specifically cites money. YOu could say its too second hand....but you are trying to read into it your opinion, not taking the quote as is.

 

Actually, there is not enough information provided to make intelligent commentary on either side of this debate. Reminds me of politics. Democrats and both blame each other for everything they possibly can. In this case, the management haters take a crum of information and spin it into incompetance or that Ryan is cheap. If it was all about money, he would just dump Morneau for a guy that will never make it above high-A. There has to be a team that would take him and his salary if they did not have to give up a prospects with a chance to play at the ML level.

[Mr. Brooks]

Actually, there is not enough information provided to make intelligent commentary on either side of this debate. Reminds me of politics. Democrats and both blame each other for everything they possibly can. In this case, the management haters take a crum of information and spin it into incompetance or that Ryan is cheap. If it was all about money, he would just dump Morneau for a guy that will never make it above high-A. There has to be a team that would take him and his salary if they did not have to give up a prospects with a chance to play at the ML level.

 

Nobody is willing to do that, hence him clearing waivers.

[ThePuck]

Funny, when I suggested they'd probably have Buxton take the winter off, everyone said I was crazy....now it makes sense for an older guy, who is used to the long grind, take time off?

 

I do agree, Sano and Buxton could probably use some time off. Makes sense to me, frankly.

 

There's like a 7 month difference in ages between Sano and Buxton :-)

[Mike Sixel]

My point was more about the grind of baseball, but ya, oooops.

[ThePuck]

My point was more about the grind of baseball, but ya, oooops.

 

just joking with you, buddy...I got your point :-)

[TheLeviathan]

Actually, there is not enough information provided to make intelligent commentary on either side of this debate. Reminds me of politics. Democrats and both blame each other for everything they possibly can. In this case, the management haters take a crum of information and spin it into incompetance or that Ryan is cheap. If it was all about money, he would just dump Morneau for a guy that will never make it above high-A. There has to be a team that would take him and his salary if they did not have to give up a prospects with a chance to play at the ML level.

 

As has been pointed out, he cleared waivers so the entire premise of your counter argument is false.

 

If Gardy had said the reverse and people were reading into this about money...the same people defending this would have a conniption. As I said earlier....it's unsettling that a major figure in the organization thinks money is the reason he wasn't dealt. Doesn't prove anything, but it's unsettling.

[drjim]

As has been pointed out, he cleared waivers so the entire premise of your counter argument is false.

 

If Gardy had said the reverse and people were reading into this about money...the same people defending this would have a conniption. As I said earlier....it's unsettling that a major figure in the organization thinks money is the reason he wasn't dealt. Doesn't prove anything, but it's unsettling.

 

And I still assert it is about lack of value/return. There really is nothing said here that can prove it either way.

 

But by all means remain unsettled.

[TheLeviathan]

And I still assert it is about lack of value/return. There really is nothing said here that can prove it either way.

 

But by all means remain unsettled.

 

Im unsettled by what was actually said, what you are doing is pretending the quote means something unsaid. You'd be upset if someone did the reverse. And you'd be right to be upset. Gardy said money, anything else is an interpretation.

[nicksaviking]

I can understand (barely) the quibble about how it might not ALL be about eating Morenau's money, but what about the player compensation justification? Gardy said they want a young ballplayer who can help them next year.

 

Unless they actually think they can get near MLB ready top prospect from AA or AAA that means they are likely willing to accept more AAAA filler like Hernandez and Escobar. Why?

 

Regardless if they are hung up on money or prospects, unless on the unlikely chance they get an actual top prospect from the upper minor leagues, they are going about this whole situation the wrong way.

[Mike Sixel]

No wonder they can't make a trade, if they are worried about a prospect helping them next year......

[drjim]

Im unsettled by what was actually said, what you are doing is pretending the quote means something unsaid. You'd be upset if someone did the reverse. And you'd be right to be upset. Gardy said money, anything else is an interpretation.

 

As a general rule I don't become unsettled by Gardy's vague ramblings about things he doesn't control. It is still a return issue first and foremost.

[drjim]

I can understand (barely) the quibble about how it might not ALL be about eating Morenau's money, but what about the player compensation justification? Gardy said they want a young ballplayer who can help them next year.

 

Unless they actually think they can get near MLB ready top prospect from AA or AAA that means they are likely willing to accept more AAAA filler like Hernandez and Escobar. Why?

 

Regardless if they are hung up on money or prospects, unless on the unlikely chance they get an actual top prospect from the upper minor leagues, they are going about this whole situation the wrong way.

 

This I can agree with. There might be a significant difference of opinion on what a "fair" return would be.

[beckmt]

I do not see the difference. Morneau is saying the correct things, but I wonder if the bridges have already been burnt when the Twins refused to meet on an extension. Morneau may decide to play for less money on a team that is a contender and the Twins will have nothing in return for him. I know if I was treated that way, I would certainly consider it.

[TheLeviathan]

As a general rule I don't become unsettled by Gardy's vague ramblings about things he doesn't control. It is still a return issue first and foremost.

 

With that...I have no problems. Gardy certainly seems like he's clueless about the workings of the FO most of the time.

[stringer bell]

Morneau wasn't claimed on waivers because no one (NO ONE) wanted to take on $3.5M for 1+ month for a player who is, at best, a marginal upgrade from what their team was using at first base. History says the Twins will not eat salary to make a trade, so IMHO the issue is money. I have been of the opinion that the Twins should trade Morneau for a 40-man roster spot and the trade partner taking on his salary. I don't know if any team has offered even that much.

[drjim]

Morneau wasn't claimed on waivers because no one (NO ONE) wanted to take on $3.5M for 1+ month for a player who is, at best, a marginal upgrade from what their team was using at first base. History says the Twins will not eat salary to make a trade, so IMHO the issue is money. I have been of the opinion that the Twins should trade Morneau for a 40-man roster spot and the trade partner taking on his salary. I don't know if any team has offered even that much.

 

I think "marginal upgrade" is the bigger problem. The Twins, rightly or wrongly, want a legitimate return for Morneau and teams aren't going to give that up for six weeks of a marginal upgrade regardless of money.

[old nurse]

What contending team other than the Yankees or Pittsburg would Morneau be an upgrade on? Any other team he would be a pinch hitter. If you were going to give up a prospect for a rental the teans could lowball the Twins because Morales with similar numbers would also be available.

[diehardtwinsfan]

Sano is not ready yet. He can't hit .250 at AA but he is ready for the majors? I don't think so. Hicks hit .280 at AA last season. Prediction: Byron Buxton is the next Rookie of the Year for the Twins.

 

There's a tale of two Sano's here with the first few weeks in the league being starkly worse than the last couple. I think that average will be climbing up as the season progresses, though I don't think he's "ready" by any means. I agree that he'd instantly be one of the better hitters on this team, but that doesn't make him ready. He still has things to learn. I'm guessing if he continues to progress, he opens up 2014 in Rochester for a month or two before being called up here after destroying the league. Wouldn't be surprised at all if Buxton was on a similar path starting in NB and making it up to Rochester in fairly short order.

[Beemo]

I do not see the difference. Morneau is saying the correct things, but I wonder if the bridges have already been burnt when the Twins refused to meet on an extension. Morneau may decide to play for less money on a team that is a contender and the Twins will have nothing in return for him. I know if I was treated that way, I would certainly consider it.

 

I get why Morneau wanted an extension but I don't know why he'd expect the Twins to actually consider it. Sure, he would've gladly accepted $11+ million the Twins would've had to pay him for next season and even another $9+ million for 2015 but he shouldn't be upset that the Twins didn't even want to talk about it.

[golfboy1]

Morneau wasn't claimed on waivers because no one (NO ONE) wanted to take on $3.5M for 1+ month for a player who is, at best, a marginal upgrade from what their team was using at first base. History says the Twins will not eat salary to make a trade, so IMHO the issue is money. I have been of the opinion that the Twins should trade Morneau for a 40-man roster spot and the trade partner taking on his salary. I don't know if any team has offered even that much.

 

I think your view is correct. Morneau is...at best, a marginal upgrade for a few teams & since nobody wanted to take the chance they would get stuck with him he cleared waivers.

 

Chicago had to send money to Texas to take Alex Rios & they received a marginal prospect in return. I think most contenders would rather have Rios over Morneau. The market for Morneau is probably very small.

 

I believe the Twins would rather keep Morneau than pay money to receive a marginal prospect back. I don't entirely disagree with that approach. He's been a Twins favorite for a long time & just dumping him for a nobody isn't the right thing to do(IMHO).

 

Some posters seem to think the Twins are being cheap by taking this approach but I don't think that is true. If they don't trade him they STILL have to pay him his salary so how is that being cheap? If it was just about money they could probably pay 70/80% of his salary & someone would take him.

[Thrylos]

I think my question (and it is meant as an honest question) is how much value is there actually in a September callup. Yes, players are getting major league experience, but I wonder if it is not a somewhat diluted experience nonetheless. .

 

A September call up means that a player can double his income. A month of an MLB paycheck is about a season's worth of a AAA paycheck and more for a AA. And this can mean a lot to the players. So it is a form of a reward...

[diehardtwinsfan]

I do not see the difference. Morneau is saying the correct things, but I wonder if the bridges have already been burnt when the Twins refused to meet on an extension. Morneau may decide to play for less money on a team that is a contender and the Twins will have nothing in return for him. I know if I was treated that way, I would certainly consider it.

 

Keep in mind that if the Twins extended him prior to him hitting FA, they could at most give him a 20% paycut. That means they'd be paying him about 11M/year. If those bridges are burned, bit's b/c Morneau has no idea what he's actually worth.

[Mr. Brooks]

Keep in mind that if the Twins extended him prior to him hitting FA, they could at most give him a 20% paycut. That means they'd be paying him about 11M/year. If those bridges are burned, bit's b/c Morneau has no idea what he's actually worth.

 

I might be wrong, but I thought the 20% rule was for pre ARB players, i.e. renewable contract guys.

[Shane Wahl]

While it may be true that Morneau is a marginal improvement over some current first baseman for teams looking at the playoffs, A: that's what teams are often looking for as they head into the playoffs, and B: perhaps Morneau is more than a marginal improvement over the last two guys on the bench for one or more of these teams (maybe true of all of them?). Someone would take him and the some 50%+ of the salary for either a decent prospect at the lower levels or a lower prospect at the higher levels.

[IdahoPilgrim]

A September call up means that a player can double his income. A month of an MLB paycheck is about a season's worth of a AAA paycheck and more for a AA. And this can mean a lot to the players. So it is a form of a reward...

 

Good point. I hadn't thought of it from that angle.