Article: Dozier, Rosario and the Future at Second Base

[Cody Christie]

You can view the page at http://twinsdaily.com/content.php?r=2222-Dozier-Rosario-and-the-Future-at-Second-Base

[Thegrin]

and don't forget James Beresford, who is only 24 years old and has a combined AA & AAA BA of .306 for 2013. He played for Australia in the WBP.

 

2013 Season

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[TD=align: center]Team

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League

Avg

G

AB

R

H

2B

3B

HR

RBI

TB

BB

SO

SB

CS

OBP

SLG

OPS

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NBR

Eas

.316

45

158

21

50

5

0

0

19

55

14

22

5

0

.373

.348

.721

ROC

Int

.293

41

133

25

39

3

1

0

12

44

13

22

4

0

.362

.331

.693

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.306

86

291

46

89

8

1

0

31

99

27

44

9

0

.368

.340

.708

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[AlwaysinModeration]

I certainly hope that Dozier keeps this up. That catch he made last night was spectacular. If Rosario keeps coming, they might have a trade possibility in 12 or 16 months.

[Major League Ready]

I certainly hope that Dozier keeps this up. That catch he made last night was spectacular. If Rosario keeps coming, they might have a trade possibility in 12 or 16 months.

 

Rosario or Dozier might end up being a very important trade chip to add a front of the rotation SP. Walker and Arcia might end up in this position too. Let's hope even more of the scenarios show up in the next couple of years because I think we are going to need to use or depth in position players to come up with SPs.

[Badsmerf]

I have to think they will give Dozier another shot at SS. If this season is for real and he can make it work at SS, the Twins will be looking alright up the middle. Really, the only spot on the INF in question going forward would then be 1b, which has Harrison and Vargas coming.

[diehardtwinsfan]

If Dozier continues to hit, you have to give him a shot again at SS. He's posted a .900 OPS for the last two months now. If he can keep an OPS for a season over .800 and provide average defense at SS, he's a huge asset.

[Oldgoat_MN]

I agree with the SS talk.

I like Florimon, but with Carroll gone we now have no one other than the 33 year old Bernier to back him up. Escobar and Beresford have to spend some time there.

(maybe Plouffe, too? Sometimes that makes sense, sometimes that thought scares me)

 

Also, I have been a big Rosario fan. If Dozier keeps posting an OPS > .800 I don't see how Rosario sneaks into a starting role at 2B unless Dozier moves to another position.

 

It is not written in stone that Rosario will be better than what Dozier is turning into.

[DaveW]

Dozier to SS only makes to much sense.

[Don't Feed the Greed Guy]

I think there will be enough innings and at-bats for a three-man middle infield of Dozier, Florimon, and Rosario. We have been waiting for this sort of talent, and it would be a crime to trade away one of the three before we see what we've got.

 

Dozier is sitting on 692 major league at-bats. We won't see him "seasoned" as a professional hitter until that number reaches 2000. I can see him mature into a J.J. Hardy type of middle infielder with a consistent on-base percentage over .300, with twenty or more dingers. He's on that pace right now. He could slide into the DH spot on days when Rosario and Florimon are in the starting lineup, or he could be a solid pinch-hitting option in the late innings.

 

As for giving Dozier another shot at shortstop? I think we've got our shortstop of the future already. Pedro Florimon is putting up better offensive numbers than Ozzie Smith displayed over his first four seasons. (The Wizard of Oz---the gold standard for MLB Shortstops) Florimon leads the American League in Total Zone Runs and Range Factor among shortstops. Florimon also has only 431 major league at-bats, and has room for a modest offensive upside. Still, Dozier could slide over to SS to give Florimon a break. Finally, I think we will need a shortstop with dynamic range with Miguel Sano at third. Sano has a cannon arm, but his range is a bit more suspect. Florimon helps solve that issue.

 

Dozier and Florimon aren't eligible for free agency until 2019. Rosario's clock isn't even ticking, yet. Why wish away what we've already got--a solid middle infield for years to come.

[orangevening]

If it's not broke don't fix it. You don't mess with Dozier head by moving him back to SS. You just got his confidence up after working his butt off learning a new position this off season. Fortunately I believe the Twins think this way too. Dozier and Floriman work great together. When Rosario is ready in 1,2,3 years then you cross that bridge then (sounds like Rosario has a lot to work on defensively anyway).

[Mike Sixel]

Three years? ugh. Rosario will be ready sometime next year.....it's nice they have this potential problem. But I'd like to see a bit more sustained success from Dozier before I gave up on one of the top 50 prospects in all of baseball being likely to be better than him.....

[diehardtwinsfan]

Three years? ugh. Rosario will be ready sometime next year.....it's nice they have this potential problem. But I'd like to see a bit more sustained success from Dozier before I gave up on one of the top 50 prospects in all of baseball being likely to be better than him.....

 

Yeah pretty much this.

I think at worst you could keep Rosario in AAA all year next year if Dozier and Florimon do well, but if Rosario continues doing what he's doing, he's going to force the issue by 2015. I'm not against that, but no need to let the kid languish either.

 

Also, I don't see how we are messing with his head by moving him back to SS. I don't have a problem keeping him at 2nd for now as he gets more comfortable hitting, but if Dozier continues to hit (and Rosario does too), I think it makes a ton of sense. He came up as a SS, so it isn't as if he has to learn the position, he's just going to have to work a bit more on defense and probably wont' be a GG. That's a fair trade if he can be average.

[DaveW]

Yeah pretty much this.

I think at worst you could keep Rosario in AAA all year next year if Dozier and Florimon do well, but if Rosario continues doing what he's doing, he's going to force the issue by 2015. I'm not against that, but no need to let the kid languish either.

 

Also, I don't see how we are messing with his head by moving him back to SS. I don't have a problem keeping him at 2nd for now as he gets more comfortable hitting, but if Dozier continues to hit (and Rosario does too), I think it makes a ton of sense. He came up as a SS, so it isn't as if he has to learn the position, he's just going to have to work a bit more on defense and probably wont' be a GG. That's a fair trade if he can be average.

 

Yeah there is a definite trade off you can live with at SS, if Dozier can put up some nice numbers at the dish you can certainly live with "average" defense. Hell, a Sano, Dozier and Rosario MI/3B would be deadly at the plate, and at least could be "average" in the field.

 

Also with the Twins FINALLY getting some strike out pitchers, defense importance should become a bit less. (But also keep in mind, the OF defense should be pretty damn solid from here on out)

[DaveW]

Also what should be noted, is that if Rosario pushes the issue quickly and the Twins aren't ready at the time to move Dozier to SS for whatever reason, Rosario could take over in CF for a bit.

[bird]

We all hope that this run is for real and sustains itself, but it's possible that Dozier cools off and settles in with production that is more in the "meh" category. Whatever the result, isn't it pleasant to be discussing the MI problem in such a different light than we were just two months ago? Gotta love baseball.

[Linus]

Disagree with the moving him to SS talk. His highest and best use is a second baseman where is an absolute elite defender and good offensive contributor. Why move him back to SS where he was really substantially below average. When Rosario is ready, best value is to use him as a trade chip or keep him and trade Rosario. We still need to add pitching and it ain't going be with free agents next year.

[ThePuck]

Dozier has an extra-base hit in each of his last seven games, which is just one game shy of the Twins' record.

[Monkeypaws]

Having a surplus of something other than corner outfielders or 1st basemen is a pretty nice problem to have. Dozier has been Pedroia Lite out there lately.

[twinsnorth49]

I think Dozier's troubles at SS last year stemmed from is trouble at the plate, pretty hard to focus on the field when you're thinking about how crappy your last at bat was, again.

He's been a SS his whole career, now that he seems to be figuring it out at the plate, I think he could be successful there.

[Don't Feed the Greed Guy]

Also what should be noted, is that if Rosario pushes the issue quickly and the Twins aren't ready at the time to move Dozier to SS for whatever reason, Rosario could take over in CF for a bit.

 

Absolutely! Hicks is not longer the "sure thing" he appeared to be out of Spring Training. He's batting .209 in AAA with only one extra base hit. Position switches--even from outfield to infield and vice versa, can occur at the MLB level too, ala Robin Yount and others. We know Rosario can play at the keystone postion eventually. Let him break in at his natural position, then Buxton can push him back into the infield in two years.

 

Also, back to the three-headed middle infield, why can't Rosario play a few in the outfield while Dozier and Florimon team up. Let's keep the band together!

[DJL44]

Buxton is only one level behind Rosario. It won't be two years between their debuts.

[70charger]

Disagree with the moving him to SS talk. His highest and best use is a second baseman where is an absolute elite defender and good offensive contributor. Why move him back to SS where he was really substantially below average. When Rosario is ready, best value is to use him as a trade chip or keep him and trade Rosario. We still need to add pitching and it ain't going be with free agents next year.

 

I see what you're saying, but I don't think we've seen the best of shortstop Dozier. I mean, given how "substantially below average" he was last year in a similar middle infield spot, could anyone have predicted how ridiculously good he'd be this year?

 

Frankly, I think if we were to move Dozier to shortstop tomorrow (hypothetically), we'd see a player much more similar to current-2B-Dozier than to previous-below-average-SS-Dozier. This year and last year are very far apart now; I don't see the logic in assuming he'd revert to last year's form because he moved several feet to his right on the diamond.

 

Ultimately, I think positional flexibility is going to be useful if we actually have the logjam we think we do (and by the way, I don't know how viable Beresford is if he can't even hit a double now and then). Let's not foreclose the possibility of moving Dozier to SS or moving Rosario to CF or moving Plouffe to wherever, because in the end we may need to in order to get bats in the lineup and rookies in the show. No one knows how this is going to play out, but if Dozier continues his hot streak, we owe it to ourselves to consider the possibility.

[Linus]

I see what you're saying, but I don't think we've seen the best of shortstop Dozier. I mean, given how "substantially below average" he was last year in a similar middle infield spot, could anyone have predicted how ridiculously good he'd be this year?

 

Frankly, I think if we were to move Dozier to shortstop tomorrow (hypothetically), we'd see a player much more similar to current-2B-Dozier than to previous-below-average-SS-Dozier. This year and last year are very far apart now; I don't see the logic in assuming he'd revert to last year's form because he moved several feet to his right on the diamond.

 

Ultimately, I think positional flexibility is going to be useful if we actually have the logjam we think we do (and by the way, I don't know how viable Beresford is if he can't even hit a double now and then). Let's not foreclose the possibility of moving Dozier to SS or moving Rosario to CF or moving Plouffe to wherever, because in the end we may need to in order to get bats in the lineup and rookies in the show. No one knows how this is going to play out, but if Dozier continues his hot streak, we owe it to ourselves to consider the possibility.

 

There is no harm in trying other than it would take a while to find out. I think the reason why he struggled defensively at short was simply that his skills are much better suited to second base. The two positions are quite different in several important ways that benefit Dozier. He uses his acrobatic athletic ability to cover ground at second diving and stopping balls that would not be possible playing short. This acrobatic aspect to his game extends his range at second, compared to short. Also, his arm strength is not there to be an elite shortstop, but is just fine for second base. Good shortstops have to make tough plays without leaving their feet as much and have to have a gun to then make more difficult throws with less time. Nothing wrong with being a damn good second baseman.

[diehardtwinsfan]

Disagree with the moving him to SS talk. His highest and best use is a second baseman where is an absolute elite defender and good offensive contributor. Why move him back to SS where he was really substantially below average. When Rosario is ready, best value is to use him as a trade chip or keep him and trade Rosario. We still need to add pitching and it ain't going be with free agents next year.

 

If the next wave has no immediate needs, then sure. But I doubt you will get a Bogarts/Profar/Tallison/Bundy type guy for Rosario. Team's dont' give up on types of prospects. What you are left with is a good 2B and Rosario being traded for something that you really cannot use right now. I'd rather move Dozier to short if that's my choice.

[Dave T]

Dozier is doing something that I didn't think was possible, namely learning to hit for power after he gets to the major leagues. If he can keep this up, he'll be the Twins 2B for a long, long time. They are not going to mess this up. The Twins are back to a classic "strong up the middle" defense, with power hitters/slow fielders at the corners. I think Rosario will be changing positions again.

[Kwak]

Or next year trade Dozier for starting pitching? We can toss in Duensing.

[drjim]

Or next year trade Dozier for starting pitching? We can toss in Duensing.

 

And Walker?

[ashbury]

There is no harm in trying other than it would take a while to find out.

 

That, to me, is what 2013 was always about. Finding things out. Taking the time, as needed.

[ashbury]

Dozier is doing something that I didn't think was possible, namely learning to hit for power after he gets to the major leagues.

 

Kirby Puckett on line one... oops, the phone went dead.

 

/ too soon?

[troyhobbs]

Wait till we see what Rosario can do before we decide what to do with Dozier. I think Rosario is next to a sure thing when it comes to stud potential.