It's Time to Get This Started - Bring Up the Kids in 2014

[nicksaviking]

 

To that end there are a few good FA pitchers who would fit the mold and I think if the FO does absolutely nothing else this off-season they at least owe it to the young pitchers (not to mention the fans) to spend some real money on a two to four year contract for a true top of the rotation type guy.

See here for the top 40 available (note I would want someone from the top 20 who has at least a few years left and that would be a good clubhouse/mentor type).

 

I agree with much of your post, but I think we better be prepared to be disappointed with next year's free agent pitching class. The Twins absolutely SHOULD be in position to snag a big time pitcher on a 4-5 year deal considering they will likely be about $60 million below the 2010 payroll. But who would that pitcher be? Matt Garza is really the only reliable arm and I don't see him coming back, even if the money was on the table, and that's supposing Texas doesn't lock him up while they have exclusive negotiating rights. They'll want him back next year, and they have money to spend.

 

Josh Johnson has been terrible and the Blue Jays have already indicated he will be getting a qualifying offer, as have the Giants with Lincicum. Now we're not just talking about overpaying for an extremely questionable arm, but the Twins would be giving up a high draft pick in a very well regarded draft, and since every team will be thinking the same thing, those pitchers may have to accept the offer. Eving Santana? Possibly but he tends to follow good seasons with terrible ones. Who else could the team possibly look to as a legit ace? This is why I think the not so good Phil Hughes is in for a big payday.

[Tokyo Twins Fan]

Again it doesn't need to be a young guy we can lock in for 4-5 but just a guy that can be solid for 2-3 more years and fill the Pavano role on the team. Arroyo (although is he a good mentor type), Santana, Westbrook, Jimenez (maybe a Maholm or Hughes). I just don't think Correia is that guy and we need a guy that can lead, mentor and take the pressure off of Gibson, Deduno and whatever other youngsters finally put it together (or as has been the case this year that stink the least).

 

I don't see us going out and using that payroll on other positions unless we really see someone we like at a position where depth is not great in the system (SS).

[drjim]

Souhan: Where?s that stench coming from? Target Field | Star Tribune

 

'It’s time to stop saying the Twins are rebuilding. They’re not. They’re waiting. They’re not constructing a sports car. They’re standing at a bus stop.The Twins embarrassed themselves Thursday afternoon, losing 7-2 to the Royals.

 

If the Twins were rebuilding, they would be playing a lot of raw but talented youngsters. They’re not. They’re showcasing mediocre-to-lousy players who never have won at any level and might never win at any level.'-- Jim Souhan

 

I always thought Souhan was pretty baseball savvy but it's a little disappointing that his main suggestion is to call up prospects before they are ready.

[DaveW]

I always thought Souhan was pretty baseball savvy but it's a little disappointing that his main suggestion is to call up prospects before they are ready.

Lol yes exactly, lets just burn a bunch of service time on guys who have yet to dominate there respective AA or A+ leagues.

[Mike Sixel]

Machado did not dominate. But he was ready if they think they are ready, heck, close, they should be up. Maybe the MLB team should just forfeit the next two year, and not even field a team. That is pretty much what a lot of you are saying.

[ThePuck]

Machado did not dominate. But he was ready if they think they are ready, heck, close, they should be up. Maybe the MLB team should just forfeit the next two year, and not even field a team. That is pretty much what a lot of you are saying.

 

See you in 2016, when ALL of the prospects we're counting on come up and automatically do well cause they spent the prerequisite amount of time in the minors?

[Guest USAFChief]

If the plan to put together a playoff caliber team involves only players currently in the Twins organization, then "they'll be good by 2015" is a pipe dream.

 

There's almost zero chance enough enough position players are good major leaguers by then, much less enough starting pitching. Either the Twins get serious about adding major league talent, or prepare for several more seasons of being hopelessly out of the race by the end of May.

 

And it could be longer than that, if things don't go perfectly.

[nicksaviking]

If the plan to put together a playoff caliber team involves only players currently in the Twins organization, then "they'll be good by 2015" is a pipe dream.

 

There's almost zero chance enough enough position players are good major leaguers by then, much less enough starting pitching. Either the Twins get serious about adding major league talent, or prepare for several more seasons of being hopelessly out of the race by the end of May.

 

And it could be longer than that, if things don't go perfectly.

 

How dare you imply a team of Joe Mauer and 24 players 24 and under won't be playoff bound.

[drjim]

If the plan to put together a playoff caliber team involves only players currently in the Twins organization, then "they'll be good by 2015" is a pipe dream.

 

There's almost zero chance enough enough position players are good major leaguers by then, much less enough starting pitching. Either the Twins get serious about adding major league talent, or prepare for several more seasons of being hopelessly out of the race by the end of May.

 

And it could be longer than that, if things don't go perfectly.

 

It has to be a combination no doubt. But any future success is going to be primarily driven by internal improvement. Smart free agents and trades can supplement but not drive a turnaround.

 

I think the Twins sign a starter or two and a bat, but unless some young guys emerge it won't matter.

[drjim]

Machado did not dominate. But he was ready if they think they are ready, heck, close, they should be up. Maybe the MLB team should just forfeit the next two year, and not even field a team. That is pretty much what a lot of you are saying.

 

Has any Twins decision involving prospects this year made you think they will hesitate to call up prospects if they are ready?

[Guest USAFChief]

It has to be a combination no doubt. But any future success is going to be primarily driven by internal improvement. Smart free agents and trades can supplement but not drive a turnaround.

 

I think the Twins sign a starter or two and a bat, but unless some young guys emerge it won't matter.

And unless the "starter or two and a bat" are actual major league players--the type other teams pursue and are willing to pay for--the young guys emerging wont matter either.

[Mike Sixel]

Has any Twins decision involving prospects this year made you think they will hesitate to call up prospects if they are ready?

 

 

No, I'm arguing with the posters here, not Ryan.

[drjim]

No, I'm arguing with the posters here, not Ryan.

 

My mistake.

[diehardtwinsfan]

Two players in two years...you sure proved him wrong :-)

 

Not sure what else people were expecting. He wasn't going to trade everyone away for pitching. That's not realistic. That said, I didn't add drafts or intl FA signings.

 

Kohl Stewart, Steven Gonclaves, Lewis Thorpe, Kua Hu, Ryan Eades, Berrois, Baxendale, Melotakis, Bard, and Chargois all say hi.

 

Ryan has made a point of adding higher upside pitching... just saying.

[diehardtwinsfan]

Aren't your first and second reasons the same? You want to do what's best for the player. You sometimes have to do what's best for the team. That's what's saddening/maddening about Hicks situation.

 

As far as payroll flexibility, the Twins payroll could be less than $70M next year without a youth movement. The kids won't get expensive until Mauer's contract runs out. That might be a moot point because Mauer is one of us [sometimes]. What would Mauer's value be this year if he was a first baseman?

 

Similar but not the same. I should have added that having some vetran presnese is good for everyone's development as well.

 

The problem on the payrol flexibility thing, is that Mauer or not, if these guys are as good as they are looking, you will be looking at all of them getting some pretty massive contracts at the same time. I'm not sure that's wise from a competitive standpoint.

[ThePuck]

Not sure what else people were expecting. He wasn't going to trade everyone away for pitching. That's not realistic. That said, I didn't add drafts or intl FA signings.

 

Kohl Stewart, Steven Gonclaves, Lewis Thorpe, Kua Hu, Ryan Eades, Berrois, Baxendale, Melotakis, Bard, and Chargois all say hi.

 

Ryan has made a point of adding higher upside pitching... just saying.

 

Dude, I was just joking with you. He says his thing and you list two guys to counter. I hear what you're saying :-)

[ThePuck]

Similar but not the same. I should have added that having some vetran presnese is good for everyone's development as well.

 

The problem on the payrol flexibility thing, is that Mauer or not, if these guys are as good as they are looking, you will be looking at all of them getting some pretty massive contracts at the same time. I'm not sure that's wise from a competitive standpoint.

 

The law of averages says most won't be worth getting massive contracts though...and the very few who will, won't be getting those until way down the road...possibly not till after Mauer's contract is over.

[diehardtwinsfan]

If the plan to put together a playoff caliber team involves only players currently in the Twins organization, then "they'll be good by 2015" is a pipe dream.

 

There's almost zero chance enough enough position players are good major leaguers by then, much less enough starting pitching. Either the Twins get serious about adding major league talent, or prepare for several more seasons of being hopelessly out of the race by the end of May.

 

And it could be longer than that, if things don't go perfectly.

 

I suspect 2015 will be more like 2001 where they give you reason for hope but fall short. By 2015, guys like Gibson, Arcia, Hicks, Tonkin, Plouffe, Pinto, Parmelee, Rosario, Sano, Darnel, Meyer, and May will either be performing or showing flashes of what they can be with Buxton, Stewart, Berrios, Walker, Harrison, Vargas, etc. all knocking on the door.

[diehardtwinsfan]

Dude, I was just joking with you. He says his thing and you list two guys to counter. I hear what you're saying :-)

 

No problem.

[Halsey Hall]

It's nice to see some optimism here, but 2018 is more likely.

[jimbo92107]

Imagine spring training in 2014, with Buxton and Sano overwhelming the competition. Who do you have that's going to look better in CF than Buxton? Hicks? No way. What's Trevor Plouffe going to do to look better than Sano? Fielding?? Not likely. Even if he continues to strike out a lot, Sano's power will make him far more valuable at the mlb level than Plouffe combination of mediocre hitting and fielding. Meanwhile, Buxton's amazing talent should push Aaron Hicks aside in short order. As for Rosario, that's no sure thing, given Dozier's excellent defense and improving bat. Rosario will have to show a major league glove before he replaces Dozier. Twins will always need great D up the middle.

 

Parmelee is a tougher call because he really lost his swing this year, and there are several other options that look at least as good, including Chris Colabello, a power hitter and solid fielder at 1B and LF, just like Parms. Given the number of promising prospects in the minors I'd be tempted to stick Colabello in there and deal Parms for a younger prospect at some other position.

[Kwak]

It seems most everyone is in agreement that we need to see some better players next year but not everyone. Some contend--just stick with the failed talent drafted in the previous decade and augment them with cheap, mediocre FA, in order to put nine on the field, lose to draft higher, and wait for the #1 MiLB system's prospects to mature. Further, they add that spending on 30+yr olds is a complete waste because (for some reason) they can never be a part of a turnaround to a winner.

 

Then, there are those who say--promote all of youth to the Twins so we can watch the future, now, as these guys (inevitably) develop into top MLB players. It seems that scenario was tried before (2011 the most recent) and those guys lost at an unconsiously high rate that the ticket-holders went into revolt. In came Willingham, Carroll, Doumit. When even they weren't enough, Corriera and Pelfrey (dare I say Worley?) were added.

How would the spin doctors of the Twins promote a team of Mauer and the 24 wannabes?--at the vastly higher Target Field ticket prices? Weren't there some "promises of competitiveness" made by the Twins as justification for public subsidy for Target Field? I believe so.

 

If the Twins want to become Miami (or Houston) North, then just cut the ticket prices in half for every seat until the next 2001 happens. But if maintaining these prices is paramount--then put some real MLB talent on the field--even if it means (swearword alert!) overpaying.

[S.]

By 2015, guys like Gibson, Arcia, Hicks, Tonkin, Plouffe, Pinto, Parmelee, Rosario, Sano, Darnel, Meyer, and May will either be performing or showing flashes of what they can be with Buxton, Stewart, Berrios, Walker, Harrison, Vargas, etc. all knocking on the door.

This seems to be assuming all of these players will perform or be showing that they have the ability to perform at the major league level, which is a huge assumption. Optimism is great, but let's be realistic here.

[Top Gun]

Realisticly the kids are not ready and many may never be. It's pretty hard to sell just hope.

[Mike Sixel]

Name the players that came up last year,a nd helped last yaer and this year.....name the players the year before, or this year year.....ok, that's a short list. This team is awful, with no good young players. Houston and Miami at least have some good young players. Why do NONE of their "prospects" since Garza? come and be good right away, and be good for mor than 1-2 years? For a team that says its ENTIRE strategy is to build through the minors......

 

I can't wait for Ryan to get all the credit for Arcia, Sano, and Rosario.....

[Mike Sixel]

Realisticly the kids are not ready and many may never be. It's pretty hard to sell just hope.

 

That's why you tell the season ticket holders you will do whatever it takes to sign pitching.....

[diehardtwinsfan]

This seems to be assuming all of these players will perform or be showing that they have the ability to perform at the major league level, which is a huge assumption. Optimism is great, but let's be realistic here.

 

That's just all, all don't have to perform to their ceilings. Some need to perform as others progress. There's a ton of names on that list, all of whom look to be pretty sizable upgrades over what we presently have. With those names, 2014 will show improvement over 2013. Lots of guys are going to take some lumps, but they should establish themselves. In 2015, some of these guys are going to start breaking out. Some will still struggle, and some will be average. I don't expect 2015 to bring home a division title, but competing is hardly out of the question.

[rickyriolo]

It's nice to see some optimism here, but 2018 is more likely.

i agree , 2018 will be the year the twins become competitive again

[Kwak]

Realisticly the kids are not ready and many may never be. It's pretty hard to sell just hope.

 

My goodness what do think they have been doing? The #1 Minor League system! Prospects! 2015! For the fans of Elizabethton, Ft. Myers, and Cedar Rapids thingas are Jake--but for us in Minnesota? It's well "Trust us", "Free agents are overpaid and a total waste of money", "we are building this team 'The Right Way', ... .

[drjim]

That's why you tell the season ticket holders you will do whatever it takes to sign pitching.....

 

I can only imagine how offended you are as a season ticket holder.