Article: Twins Prospects Carry Hot Bats, Fiery Personalities

[Nick Nelson]

You can view the page at http://twinsdaily.com/content.php?r=2141-Twins-Prospects-Carry-Hot-Bats-Fiery-Personalities

[Old Twins Cap]

Sano's a man. Let him play like a man. You don't see the baseball people in Boston calling for Ortiz to be benched after he took a bat to a bullpen phone, then had to be restrained by his manager, screamed at by Pedroia -- all in a game they were winning handily and because Ortiz felt a couple of strike calls were overly generous. Sano will be okay if you surround him with serious ballplayers who want to win. Do not neuter his machismo.

[Winston Smith]

The Twins way.

http://vecto.rs/1024/vector-of-a-cartoon-granny-knitting-in-a-rocking-chair-coloring-page-outline-by-ron-leishman-15239.jpg

[Willihammer]

That Reusse article has changed a little. Instead of reading

General Manager Terry Ryan was watching New Britain. He talked to Sano after the game and didn't get a satisfactory response

it now reads

 

Ryan also had another team employee talk to Sano. Apparently, Sano's response was not satisfactory to the Twins. So, the No. 3 overall prospect in the minor leagues sits at Jeff Smith's discretion.

 

Since Ryan was at the game I wonder if the "team employee" is just the translator he and Sano conversed through.

 

Imagine a frustrated Ryan, sweating and livid, trying to pass a verbal chastisement through, say,

. Might lose a little punch.

[Pitz]

As I was reading about the Twins 'vanilla' personality and need for some fire, I couldn't help but think of Torii Hunter picking up the ball after being beaned and chucking it back at the pitcher.

That is all.

 

Thanks for the solid article.

[Seth Stohs]

well done, Nick... I am glad that you pointed out that this 4-game benching is not so much for pimping the home run, or showing up the other team. That has happened before. It's happened frequently. Players typically get one game off for doing that, and rightfully so. The reason this one is four games and not one or two is because of the way he talked to his manager... That would not be accepted by any organization in baseball. It just wouldn't.

 

If you've seen the video, you'll notice that the 1B coach doesn't even congratulate him... and the bench is very still, quiet. They were still down by a run. With Terry Ryan and Paul Molitor and Joel Lepel there, they couldn't let it go, and they shouldn't have. If they let Sano act like that and talk back and such, you lose the whole team.

 

Listen, by many reports, Jeff Smith is not liked at all as a coach. He may be gone at the end of the year anyway for all we know, but I guarantee it will not be because of the way he handled this situation.

 

Sano is a good kid, but he's just that, a kid. I like his confidence and his immense talent, and I like when players show their enthusiasm, but there is a fine line and Sano very clearly crossed it.

 

The key is, now that he's back and playing, that it's just completely forgotten.

[Giles Ferrell]

Well said Nick!

[Waverley Wildcat]

Baseball thank goodness is a game that can level out everyone, the bigger you think you are the bigger you can fall, I hope Sano's attitude to his team mates is sincere like when on Sunday he also struck out twice and made another one of his growing errors, hopefully he will learn that you can have that bit of fire in your game but you cannot disrespect the game.

[frightwig]

Baseball thank goodness is a game that can level out everyone, the bigger you think you are the bigger you can fall....

 

Yeah, I guess Sano may have to learn that the hard way. Besides needing to show better respect toward club management and the game itself, I hope he realizes now that he's in AA for nothing but to put in the work necessary to advance. Bat flips may be considered colorful, or "playing with swagger," once he's proven himself in the majors. In AA, he's just a punk with a lot of promise in AA, riding the bus with all the other kids. Why act like that in AA? Does he think he's already arrived?

 

If he learns those lessons, maybe we can avoid another Matt Garza situation.

[bigd1123]

Great post.

 

As much a I think the Twins are doing a good job handling these young prospects, I can't help but be encouraged by the fire these kids have.

 

The Twins best team in recent memory was when they lost to the Angels in the ALCS. There were players on that team (Meintkewicsz, Pierzinski, Hunter) that showed the same qualities. They didn't take any s*** from the other team and were quick to talk trash if something needed to be said. They excelled as much because of that ultra competitiveness as they did their talent. Since those players departed, we've had more talented teams and more talented players play like scared girls in New York, Boston, and the playoffs.

 

These kids need to be respectful to the game and their managers, but its the first time in a long time I've seen anyone in the organization that may have that extra something to take the team where we all want to see it go.

[Blackjack]

You don't suppose that the $3 million dollar bonus that he already has in the bank affects his attitude, do you? He could quit baseball tomorrow and be a very rich man where he came from.

[JB_Iowa]

Absolutely unnecessary article.

 

We have been hashing and re-hashing this for days in the Minor League forum.

 

I had hoped that Sano's presence in last night's line-up would put an end to all the speculation and discussion.

 

I'm betting that historically there have been a number of times when the Twins disciplined minor leaguers (even future stars) for a variety of reasons. Prior to the advent of the blogosphere, they were probably minor blips on anyone's radar.

 

It is time to move on and put this subject behind us.

[whosafraidofluigirussolo]

Well written, a good take on the situation.

 

Couple things:

- The identity of who actually talked to Sano after the game is significant. If it was in fact a translator, I think that's the best case. For all the help that I think MLB organizations provide in not just coaching their Latin-American players to play but helping them live in the U.S. (and from what I understand, the help that orgs. give players with lodging, language, etc. has improved significantly over maybe 10-20 years ago), there are still plenty of situations where a player is on his own to deal with communicating with media, management or other players. This is not to say that Sano should get away with attitude issues that are clearly detrimental to his team or his future; it's just that a confrontation with a "hard-nosed" manager or a questioning from the GM (the boss's boss's boss, basically) is not a situation where anyone should split hairs about exactly how "satisfactorily" the player, probably facing some degree of communication barrier, answered.

 

This gets to a larger issue, related to the suggestion that the Twins should have a higher-ranking Latin-American coach or front-office employee. That's a good idea, but the Sano, Arcia and Rosario incidents cited above are not the reason why. I think that there's some danger of drawing an implicit or assumed connection between players' Latin-American nationalities and "fiery" personalities on the field.

Not that anyone here has done that (Nick or the commenters above), but I've seen that pattern in sports-fan chatter before - the narratives that go around about "enigmatic" or "emotional" personalities in baseball usually aren't connected to white guys. Point is that hiring a high-ranking Latino coach (or assistant GM, etc) is a good idea to help players communicate with coaches and management better, in general, not because of some specific set of "attitude" concerns.

 

- You described Sano's history with Lanigan, who gave up the home run, as a mitigating factor in the dust-up, but it sounds like the team didn't feel that way, and rightly not - a player letting previous bad blood influence him to show up an opposing player or team makes the transgression worse, not better, IMO.

[Smcginnity]

Absolutely unnecessary article.

 

We have been hashing and re-hashing this for days in the Minor League forum.

 

I had hoped that Sano's presence in last night's line-up would put an end to all the speculation and discussion.

 

I'm betting that historically there have been a number of times when the Twins disciplined minor leaguers (even future stars) for a variety of reasons. Prior to the advent of the blogosphere, they were probably minor blips on anyone's radar.

 

It is time to move on and put this subject behind us.

 

I wouldn't say it was unnecessary. That is the point of this blog, to educate the fans. The forums are just opinions or links to articles about what may have happened. This article finalizes the details. Now, yes, we can move on. But, I think it was necessary for the Twins Daily team to write about it.

[PeanutsFromHeaven]

Like most everyone else I've got to point out how good this article is, and I also wanted to point out a particularly relevant point

 

I think that there's some danger of drawing an implicit or assumed connection between players' Latin-American nationalities and "fiery" personalities on the field. Not that anyone here has done that (Nick or the commenters above), but I've seen that pattern in sports-fan chatter before - the narratives that go around about "enigmatic" or "emotional" personalities in baseball usually aren't connected to white guys. Point is that hiring a high-ranking Latino coach (or assistant GM, etc) is a good idea to help players communicate with coaches and management better, in general, not because of some specific set of "attitude" concerns.

 

There's absolutely a racial component to Sano, Arcia and Rosario's behavior, just as there's a racial component to Mauer, Gardenhire Ryan's and everyone eles's behavior. The more the Twins are able to bridge the gap between cultural attitudes and expectations the more success the team can expect in the future (perhaps with a brash Mentkiewitcz and a retired Johan on the coaching staff).

[jharaldson]

remove, attachments are not showing correctly.

[Monkeypaws]

I agree with the crux of your article - it was the reports of insubordination I found most disturbing - not that I'm a "respect authority" type, but it just doesn't bode well for the long-term future of a player in this organization if they can't get with the program.

 

If Sano fails as a prospect for the Twins, I want it to be on the field performance that determines it, not off-field drama. Garza didn't want to do it the Twins way, he was shipped away, and has been missed ever since.

[Steve Lein]

Great work Nick. This article echoes my sentiments on the whole situation and the Twins overall attitude as a team recently.

[nicksaviking]

Nice article Nick.

 

I wonder what would have happened had Ryan talked to Sano before Smith had? Obviously it would have been odd for the manager not to talk to the player first, but if Smith does have a history of being difficult, disrespect from a player is probably not uncommon. The attitude with the GM is probably the surprising part. However, Sano thought he was in the right to show up a former teammate he had a dust up with, and if he had already gotten into hot water for mouthing off to the coach who he may or may not like, stubbornnes for his cause likely would have caused him to carry the same tune with the GM.

 

Had Ryan, with whom Sano presumably does not have an issue, calmly and civilly talked to Sano first (again which would have been odd) he very likely would not have gotten the same hot headed response that Sano had already created to defy the manager he may or may not like.

[old nurse]

I agree with the crux of your article - it was the reports of insubordination I found most disturbing - not that I'm a "respect authority" type, but it just doesn't bode well for the long-term future of a player in this organization if they can't get with the program.

 

If Sano fails as a prospect for the Twins, I want it to be on the field performance that determines it, not off-field drama. Garza didn't want to do it the Twins way, he was shipped away, and has been missed ever since.

 

Not to derail the thread but Garza's beef with the Twins was pitch selection. In the minors he relied on his fastball. He didn't like that the Twins did not want him to throw it as much as he wanted to. The irony is that is as he has progressed in the majors he uses his fastball less.

[old nurse]

Not defending anybody's actions here. Part of the maturation process is learning to shut up and just say "Yes, sir". You don't have to believe a single word of it, but realize you are not going to get anywhere fighting it either.

[NealcpLA]

...Maybe it's my natural skepticism or even cynicism but how did we find out that Sano essentially told Smith he would "do what he wanted when he hits a HR"? From the Twins' organization? I suspect, given Smith's "prickliness", the truth may have been something different...Smith probably wanted Sano to back down and kiss his ring and when he didn't, he went running to Ryan...I watched the video and, even though we did not see much of the time he stood before starting his trot, there is no way it was a full "5 seconds"...Agree with the one posting pointing out how "Minnesota Nice" and, essentially, 'milquetoast' the current team is and how bereft of any real fire it has been...if this organization thinks it is going to somehow berate these young Latino studs into being "nice" and playing some nonsensical "Twins way", they're going to f- it up again, just like they did with Garza, as a matter of fact...

[Willihammer]

...Maybe it's my natural skepticism or even cynicism but how did we find out that Sano essentially told Smith he would "do what he wanted when he hits a HR"? From the Twins' organization?

 

Hearsay, courtesy of Reusse. Its a fair question. For all we know, Sano did say "yes, sir" and got suspended anyway.

[Siehbiscuit]

Hearsay, courtesy of Reusse. Its a fair question. For all we know, Sano did say "yes, sir" and got suspended anyway.

 

HIGHLY DOUBTFUL. Why suspend the #3 prospect in baseball, when he is just starting to find his groove in AA? The pimpingof the homer deserved at most a 2 game suspension, if he was contrite, likely just the next day. No way that Sano dropped a "Yes, Sir" and was suspended 4 games.

[Oldgoat_MN]

.... but I've seen that pattern in sports-fan chatter before - the narratives that go around about "enigmatic" or "emotional" personalities in baseball usually aren't connected to white guys.

 

Perhaps you are too young to remember, so I'll tell you a little story.

 

Prior to the 1987 season the Twins picked up a guy named Dan Gladden. His career stats are underwhelming. He was, however, a man on a mission.

Emotion? He had it.

Swagger? He had it.

 

And he was an important component to two World Series Championship teams.

 

Other than punching his teammate, he was not considered disrespectful or a trouble maker. He just played with a lot of passion.

[savvyspy]

Joe Mauer and dominate should never be used in the same sentence.

[Shane Wahl]

It is true that the Twins need more Latin coaches across the board (including the majors). Much ado about nothing, here, though. It's good to have players who think they are good in this organization. It's good to have players who want to murder the baseball.

[Pbannu]

well done, Nick... I am glad that you pointed out that this 4-game benching is not so much for pimping the home run, or showing up the other team. That has happened before. It's happened frequently. Players typically get one game off for doing that, and rightfully so. The reason this one is four games and not one or two is because of the way he talked to his manager... That would not be accepted by any organization in baseball. It just wouldn't.

 

If you've seen the video, you'll notice that the 1B coach doesn't even congratulate him... and the bench is very still, quiet. They were still down by a run. With Terry Ryan and Paul Molitor and Joel Lepel there, they couldn't let it go, and they shouldn't have. If they let Sano act like that and talk back and such, you lose the whole team.

 

Listen, by many reports, Jeff Smith is not liked at all as a coach. He may be gone at the end of the year anyway for all we know, but I guarantee it will not be because of the way he handled this situation.

 

Sano is a good kid, but he's just that, a kid. I like his confidence and his immense talent, and I like when players show their enthusiasm, but there is a fine line and Sano very clearly crossed it.

 

The key is, now that he's back and playing, that it's just completely forgotten.

 

 

How about hiring Ozzie Guillen as Manager when Gardy gets let go! He has a fiery personality that the twins need and can talk directly with the Latin players and things don't get lost in translation!

[launchingthrees]

Well done by Terry Ryan. He's already setting up his excuses for not resigning one of the best power hitters in baseball on the basis of "clubhouse issues" Good for the Pohlads!

[Don't Feed the Greed Guy]

How about hiring Ozzie Guillen as Manager when Gardy gets let go! He has a fiery personality that the twins need and can talk directly with the Latin players and things don't get lost in translation!

 

IF the Pohlads and Terry Ryan can't get over their love-fest with Ron Gardenhire, then I think Guillen makes perfect sense as a bench coach, if he's willing to accept the position. Tactically, I think Gardy is the better manager than Ozzie, but Ozzie brings the intangibles that Gardy can't match, including a cultural bridge. Our view, through the media, is that Guillen has long taken a shine to Gardy and the Twins way.

 

The whole "gist" of the Reusse article is that the Twins management can benefit by bridging the potential cultural gap between their present management and their emerging talent base.

 

Given the dust-ups in the minors, that just makes a whole lot of sense. Pbannu's suggestion (one I blogged about months ago) would be a visible commitment to building that bridge.