Houston's Bud Norris on Twins' radar?

[Oxtung]

I don't really understand why the Twins would trade for an established pitcher instead of using FA. Why give up prospects when there is plenty of money available?

[beckmt]

Yes, but marginally better is better. That being said, I would prefer the Twins to spend their money in the off season for higher level pitchers.

[Willihammer]

What would it take to get him?

[howieramone1406390264]

I don't really understand why the Twins would trade for an established pitcher instead of using FA. Why give up prospects when there is plenty of money available?

Maybe they have a good chance to get what they want right now? Right now is usually quite popular on this board. Prospects now, money later.

[kab21]

This all depends on what the asking price is. His velocity and swstr% rates are still pretty good so I think his K/9 can rebound some. Gallardo on the other hand is a mess. His velocity is still down considerably and his swstr% is much lower and dropping.

[Thrylos]

Bud Norris would be a step above Diamond and Worley. Kinda (good) Pelfrey like. The Twins do not need these kind of pitchers at this point. If they are going to trade prospects, they better go after someone with an 1-2 upside (in a contender) instead of adding to their collection of mediocre pitchers

[Oxtung]

Maybe they have a good chance to get what they want right now? Right now is usually quite popular on this board. Prospects now, money later.

 

I think I don't understand what you're saying here. Are you saying you think the Twins should trade prospects now for established players and then supplement a few years from now with FA? Or perhaps you mean they could acquire Norris now and get a good pitcher in FA too thus trying to push up their contention time table a year or two?

[kab21]

I don't really understand why the Twins would trade for an established pitcher instead of using FA. Why give up prospects when there is plenty of money available?

 

why not try both?

 

Next year's FA market is also not that great. Garza, Lincecum, Hughes, JJohnson, Hudson and ESantana look like the best guys to me. These are not the kind of guys you get into a bidding war for. Maybe they can land one but it's definitely not a guarantee.

[howieramone1406390264]

Bud Norris would be a step above Diamond and Worley. Kinda (good) Pelfrey like. The Twins do not need these kind of pitchers at this point. If they are going to trade prospects, they better go after someone with an 1-2 upside (in a contender) instead of adding to their collection of mediocre pitchers

At this point in time, it's very unlikely they can get Whitey Ford or Warren Spahn. If they can get a major league ready starter, that they feel will be part of the core going forward, I'm all in.

[TheLeviathan]

At this point in time, it's very unlikely they can get Whitey Ford or Warren Spahn. If they can get a major league ready starter, that they feel will be part of the core going forward, I'm all in.

 

What's the difference between that and the James Shields deal? Assuming we will have to give away something significant (seems likely), I fail to see the difference.

 

I'm just confused by what seems like some inconsistency in this. (I personally don't like the looks of that WHIP and strikeout rate)

[Oxtung]

why not try both?

 

Next year's FA market is also not that great. Garza, Lincecum, Hughes, JJohnson, Hudson and ESantana look like the best guys to me. These are not the kind of guys you get into a bidding war for. Maybe they can land one but it's definitely not a guarantee.

 

The Twins are almost exclusively counting on prospects to raise the franchise from the depths of multiple 90 loss seasons. It doesn't seem wise to then trade those prospects away for a fix at 1 position. Especially when they could acquire roughly the same caliber of pitcher via free agency for nothing but cash of which the Twins have in abundance.

[kab21]

Bud Norris would be a step above Diamond and Worley. Kinda (good) Pelfrey like. The Twins do not need these kind of pitchers at this point. If they are going to trade prospects, they better go after someone with an 1-2 upside (in a contender) instead of adding to their collection of mediocre pitchers

 

I completely disagree.

 

Norris is nothing like Pelfrey or pretty much any of the pitchers the Twins currently have.

 

I don't have a problem with the Twins parting with some of their nice but not great lower level prospects for a guy like Norris. I have a big problem with the Twins making a Myers/Shields type trade. If you want a #1/2 guy then it will cost a guy like Sano/buxton.

[diehardtwinsfan]

I think it would take considerably more than that to move Norris given his years of control left. My guess is you're looking at a top 75-125 talent plus a another 100-200 prospect. Something like Kepler and Berrios, but that is just an uneducated guess without looking up comps so it's probably worth the paper it's written on.

 

Good Lord, Norris isn't that good. He isn't even getting a 7/9 K rate and he has an approximate 2:1 K/BB ratio. The switch to the AL has hurt him, though his HR rate is a bit down this year. I don't mind acquiring him for a reasonable price, but no way I trade prospects like that for a couple of years of Norris.

[TheLeviathan]

Good Lord, Norris isn't that good. He isn't even getting a 7/9 K rate and he has an approximate 2:1 K/BB ratio. The switch to the AL has hurt him, though his HR rate is a bit down this year. I don't mind acquiring him for a reasonable price, but no way I trade prospects like that for a couple of years of Norris.

 

According to MLBTraderumors, Oxtung is spot on with the going price according to other GMs:

 

GM Ben Cherington and his staff feel that he's being priced more like a front-of-the-rotation arm than a mid-rotation or back-end starter. That gels with previous reports that the Astros want a pair of top prospects for Norris, who has also drawn interestfrom the Rangers, Pirates, Dodgers, Blue Jays and Giants recently.

[kab21]

The Twins are almost exclusively counting on prospects to raise the franchise from the depths of multiple 90 loss seasons. It doesn't seem wise to then trade those prospects away for a fix at 1 position. Especially when they could acquire roughly the same caliber of pitcher via free agency for nothing but cash of which the Twins have in abundance.

 

you are acting like it's a guarantee that they can get even one guy as good as Norris in FA. they need more than 1 and the Twins don't need to only rely on prospects to turn it around. They can't part with their top prospects but they have a lot of depth at lower levels.

[nicksaviking]

At this point in time, it's very unlikely they can get Whitey Ford or Warren Spahn. If they can get a major league ready starter, that they feel will be part of the core going forward, I'm all in.

 

Are you saying Norris is the next best thing? There isn't another level of pitcher between the HOF'ers and Norris? Or two or three levels?

 

It's likely going to cost an Arcia+. Playoff hopefulls are going to drive the price up. I'm not interested, the price will surely be high as he is not a rental, though considering this team likely still won't be competing next year, that's hopefully one year of a #3 pitcher in a season that matters. Count me out, a player on a two year deal might as well be a rental as far as the Twins competition schedule is concerned. I'd take him as a free agent but not for a top prospect.

[Guest USAFChief]

If the price is anything close to Kepler and Barrios, pass.

 

They have lots of money to spend, there's no need to spend prospects on the likes of Norris.

[nicksaviking]

you are acting like it's a guarantee that they can get even one guy as good as Norris in FA. they need more than 1 and the Twins don't need to only rely on prospects to turn it around. They can't part with their top prospects but they have a lot of depth at lower levels.

 

I can guarantee they can get one guy as good as Norris in FA. It's just doubtful they are willing.

[AlwaysinModeration]

why not try both?

 

Next year's FA market is also not that great. Garza, Lincecum, Hughes, JJohnson, Hudson and ESantana look like the best guys to me. These are not the kind of guys you get into a bidding war for. Maybe they can land one but it's definitely not a guarantee.

 

I personally would like to have any of Garza, JJohnson, Lincecum or even Hughes pitching for the Twins for the next few years. Especially Lincecum or Johnson.

[Oxtung]

you are acting like it's a guarantee that they can get even one guy as good as Norris in FA. they need more than 1 and the Twins don't need to only rely on prospects to turn it around. They can't part with their top prospects but they have a lot of depth at lower levels.

 

You make a good point that nothing is guaranteed in free agency (even more so since, personally, I highly doubt the Twins will make any serious moves on a top talent). You are correct that the Twins don't have to rely only on prospects but all current evidence points to them being unwilling to add high talent players via FA. Since they need more than 1 piece to be competitive, what good does trading prospects, that could potentially fill multiple holes for several years, for only 1 mid rotation pitcher do for the Twins? We win 3 extra games on a team that isn't going to be competitive anyways?

[kab21]

I can guarantee they can get one guy as good as Norris in FA. It's just doubtful they are willing.

 

They still need more than one and next offseason all we will hear that the money for pitcher X is ridiculous (and it will be ridiculous).

 

My interest is limited to a smaller package than the guessed at asking price. I don't think other teams will bid anywhere close to Berrios and kepler. I wouldn't be surprised if you could land him for mays and walker. Or a substitute harrison into the deal.

[Willihammer]

Kepler and Berrios? I'd probably counter with an offer that took Berrios out. Maybe Kepler, Duffy and Pimentel.

[kab21]

You make a good point that nothing is guaranteed in free agency (even more so since, personally, I highly doubt the Twins will make any serious moves on a top talent). You are correct that the Twins don't have to rely only on prospects but all current evidence points to them being unwilling to add high talent players via FA. Since they need more than 1 piece to be competitive, what good does trading prospects, that could potentially fill multiple holes for several years, for only 1 mid rotation pitcher do for the Twins? We win 3 extra games on a team that isn't going to be competitive anyways?

 

It all depends on what the asking price ends up being. The Twins need to keep their premium prospects (Buxton, Sano, Rosario, Meyer, Berrios, Stewart, Arcia and a couple others) and rely on them for the turnaround. After that they can fill holes with the rest of their prospect stash (it's pretty considerable) or get supporting pieces in FA. if they can get norris for a reasonable prospect package and it would be even better if they can buy out a year or two of FA with him.

[Oxtung]

It all depends on what the asking price ends up being. The Twins need to keep their premium prospects (Buxton, Sano, Rosario, Meyer, Berrios, Stewart, Arcia and a couple others) and rely on them for the turnaround. After that they can fill holes with the rest of their prospect stash (it's pretty considerable) or get supporting pieces in FA. if they can get norris for a reasonable prospect package and it would be even better if they can buy out a year or two of FA with him.

 

I wouldn't buy out any of his post control years. He will already be 32 when he becomes FA eligible.

[kab21]

I would have no problem buying out his age 32 (and even his age 33 season) this offseason. Of course it depends on how much he is asking for.

[nicksaviking]

Woodson's article also says the Twins had interest in Arrieta before he was traded to the Cubs.

 

So the Cubs plan to "overpay" and set the market for backend starters continues to sting the Twins considering the Twins could have had Arrieta if they had inked Feldman.

[kab21]

The Twins would be very lucky to have Arrieta since he would have been a downgrade to this year's rotation.

 

FWIW - I have liked Arrieta for awhile.

[nicksaviking]

The Twins would be very lucky to have Arrieta since he would have been a downgrade to this year's rotation.

 

FWIW - I have liked Arrieta for awhile.

 

Yeah, he's getting a little old considering he hasn't been able to accomplish much at the MLB level. With the walk issues, I'm quite surprised the Twins had interest; doesn't seem like a Gardy/Ryan/Anderson kind of arm.

[daveha]

Speaking of being off-topic, Jim Duquette was interviewed on 106.7 here in Washington, DC this morning. He was asked about a replacement for Davey Johnson who is in his last year as manager of the Nationals. He said the best three veteran managers--what he felt the Nationals needed--who might be available at the end of the year were Mike Scioscia, Bud Black, and [you guessed it] Gardy. He raved about Gardy and Scioscia in particular.