Reusse: Twins and timid intersect too often

[Winston Smith]

"..it seems like the one place where Ryan would feel comfortable spending money."

 

My guess there is never a time that TR is comfortable spending money.

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcREPUqLVXXwGlQGAW14IJFZB5Lx9Dy3uXzOavn_jA6EpzMl25masg

[Boom Boom]

You're missing one obvious possibility...it's possible the Pohlads don't want to spend the money at all. That would explain a lot of things that have us collectively scratching our heads quite often.

 

You mean that DSP may have lied about the Pohlads approving a significantly higher payroll? Can't be.

[ThePuck]

I don't believe the expansion of their international scouting was reactionary rather than strategic, but it certainly was due to an assessment that the international market was increasingly fertile. And I would guess their Dominican operation is still not a top tier program.

 

Sure wish our mainsteam media people who probe this stuff once in awhile.

 

By reactionary, I meant that since they were one of the last teams to dive into the Carribean market, then they were reacting to what most every other team was doing. Since we were talking aggressive versus not aggressive, I think that goes on to the not aggressive side.

[TheLeviathan]

If anything, it seems like the one place where Ryan would feel comfortable spending money.

 

That's what I was implying earlier, but much clunkier. This is the most baffling part.

[powrwrap]

Good article by Reusse and points out an attitude in the Twins front office of not being risk takers.

 

I wonder: If the Nishioka signing had worked out well for the Twins would they be more aggressive with Gonzalez?

[TheLeviathan]

Good article by Reusse and points out an attitude in the Twins front office of not being risk takers.

 

I wonder: If the Nishioka signing had worked out well for the Twins would they be more aggressive with Gonzalez?

 

I really hope that huge mistake doesn't affirm the risk-averse in our FO. I hadn't considered that.

[LimestoneBaggy]

Good thread folks. I suppose it's easy to be reactionary looking at recent ridiculous success stories of Chapman, etc., and infer that Gonzales will be an instant success, but with the cash the Twins have apart from their international cap limits, I just can't find a reason not to go big this year (this week in mad libs: we want a pitcher, not a __________).

 

This would be a great interview question for folks with access after the fact (why didn't we go after so and so....assuming we'd get a real answer).

[Monkeypaws]

The international scouting did expand, but only because it needed to. The Twins were among the last to have a regular presence in the Carribean. It was once again a reactionary move as the Twins were trying to keep up with the rest of the league.

 

 

Reusse's article boiled my blood last night when I read it even though it's the same stuff we say here daily. Our frustration just seems more justified when someone who gets paid to say it, says it.

 

You don't get the hot girl to dance if you sit in the corner of the gym with your science club buddies texting your mom to come pick you up. Get off your butt and make a bold move Ryan. There is no room in this league for a functioning passive-holic.

 

Maybe with respect to the DR, but they were well ahead of the game in Venezuela.

[Nick Nelson]

This would be a great interview question for folks with access after the fact (why didn't we go after so and so....assuming we'd get a real answer).

Sadly, that doesn't seem like a remotely safe assumption.

[Mike Sixel]

Brock, that list of possibilities was awesomely funny. Thanks.....

 

They have the money, and they, so far, have chosen not to spend it. Everything about Ryan is timid, imo. I hope (somehow) that he proves me wrong at some point, but I doubt it.

 

If they sign a high priced Cuban, what is the worst that happens? They lose $40-60MM? It's not like they need that money on the MLB roster for the next 4 years.

[BabyJesusBuxton]

TR has repeatedly stated that the Twins will use ALL of their international money. It wouldn't surprise me if they aren't interested in players with paperwork issues similar to Sano's situation when he was signed or as others have said there are some top prospects who can't sign until August.

 

For me as long as they spend money on legitimate ML pitching this offseason I am okay with not going after the Cubans. If TR goes another year similar to last offseason I will take serious issue with what he is doing. Sign at least one quality, above average, ML caliber pitcher to a 3-4 year deal to anchor the rotation as we add pieces from the minors. Given the Twins current payroll, overpaying a pitcher should not be an issue to get him into a Twins uniform.

[ThePuck]

For me as long as they spend money on legitimate ML pitching this offseason I am okay with not going after the Cubans. If TR goes another year similar to last offseason I will take serious issue with what he is doing. Sign at least one quality, above average, ML caliber pitcher to a 3-4 year deal to anchor the rotation as we add pieces from the minors. Given the Twins current payroll, overpaying a pitcher should not be an issue to get him into a Twins uniform.

 

First, it's not just Cubans. The international market extends farther out than that.

 

Second, what makes you think Ryan will pay what is necessary to give a quality above average FA MLB caliber pitcher a 3-4 year deal, or that he'll 'overpay' for any true quality FA player, much less a pitcher? That's not at all meant as snark, that's a real question. People keep backing up expectations for TR to do stuff. next year people will be saying, 'well if he doesn't do it next year I'll have a problem', and so on and so on.

[howieramone1406390264]

It is possible for a criticism of the front office to have merit. Your zeal to defend against any and every criticism really strains credulity, especially when you don't provide a strong analysis for why. In this case, you criticize the player for wanting to escape a poverty riddled country for a new life and give a list of reasons against him that would qualify as potential negatives against roughly 95% of the pitchers on the planet (some arm problems, bidding wars for talent, maybe not be a true ace)

 

Here is a scouting report. Pat probably read up on the player and used the many sources in MLB that he has culled over decades of working with professional baseball to determine that this guy was a pretty interesting arm. He then probably (after defending the Twin's lack of spending in the offseason) figured that with their enormous payroll flexibility that this would be a perfect time to gamble on something they desperately need.

 

Makes a lot of sense to me. He may be wrong, but his article is spot on - if you do save this much money in normal free agency, it would behoove them to be aggressive with it when they can in international free agency.

Could you point out my exact words where I criticized him for wanting to excape poverty? Are you making a death defying leap here? Why did you omit he hasn't pitched in 2 years when you calculated the 95% of all pitchers on the planet?

[E. Andrew]

True or not, this brand of writing just breeds ill-informed sports fans. Start with a subjective, flavor-of-the-day assertion that management is guiding the club in the wrong direction, add an appeal to ignorance, finish with a further irrelevant comparison to another sport, and you have a Star Trib article.

 

Feeling a bit cynical this morning haha...

[ashbury]

True or not, this brand of writing just breeds ill-informed sports fans. Start with a subjective, flavor-of-the-day assertion that management is guiding the club in the wrong direction, add an appeal to ignorance, finish with a further irrelevant comparison to another sport, and you have a Star Trib article.

 

Feeling a bit cynical this morning haha...

 

Reusse invested a paragraph in acknowledging that Ryan's judgement about last offseason's FA pitchers has worked out pretty well, while challenging Ryan's judgement mainly about two pitchers (and an outfielder) in the rest of his article.

[nicksaviking]

Maybe with respect to the DR, but they were well ahead of the game in Venezuela.

 

Yes, this is true. Every other team was mining the DR but the Twins were absent. They were late to the party and set up shop in Venezuela. I agree, once they finally decided to play the game it was a nice move considering not many other teams were there, but the fact still remains, they were in Venezuela and not the DR because they were too slow into the international game.

[diehardtwinsfan]

Personally, I don't have a problem with the Twins failing to spend big money on the Cuban defectors. There probably isn't much info out there on them and due to their ages, you would have to hope that they are ML ready. Despite that, these players are going to get big time free agent type money usually reserved for proven players. I would rather have money go elsewhere.

I think we can all agree that the Twins have made some great international signings recently: Sano, Kepler, Vargas, Polanco, Jorge, Rosario, Landa, Thorpe. So if they avoid a bidding war for 1 or 2 of the top prospects to sign several lesser known ones, I trust their judgement.

 

Here's the big difference: Cubans don't count against the international budget. Tseng will count against it. They still have money left over in their international budget, and more than others such as the cubs, so if they want Tseng, they can get him.

 

With Gonzalez, signing him does not count against the cap, and given the need for high impact pitching, if there was a guy worth taking a calculated risk on, it would be him, probably even more so than a guy like Sanchez given his age, the two year suspension, and the lack of milage on his arm.

[nicksaviking]

TR has repeatedly stated that the Twins will use ALL of their international money. It wouldn't surprise me if they aren't interested in players with paperwork issues similar to Sano's situation when he was signed or as others have said there are some top prospects who can't sign until August.

 

For me as long as they spend money on legitimate ML pitching this offseason I am okay with not going after the Cubans. If TR goes another year similar to last offseason I will take serious issue with what he is doing. Sign at least one quality, above average, ML caliber pitcher to a 3-4 year deal to anchor the rotation as we add pieces from the minors. Given the Twins current payroll, overpaying a pitcher should not be an issue to get him into a Twins uniform.

 

Well we say this every year. We're still waiting for Jack Morris 2.0.

 

And Ryan did say he would spend the International money, but a lot of good that will do now. All the top prospects are long gone, now all they have to spend on is a bunch of lesser regarded players. There are not top guys awaiting paper work shenanigans.

 

It's the same approach as he takes in free agency. He thinks quantity is a better approach than quality.

[ThePuck]

Well we say this every year. We're still waiting for Jack Morris 2.0.

 

And Ryan did say he would spend the International money, but a lot of good that will do now. All the top prospects are long gone, now all they have to spend on is a bunch of lesser regarded players. There are not top guys awaiting paper work shenanigans.

 

It's the same approach as he takes in free agency. He thinks quantity is a better approach than quality.

 

It's an interesting way to do things. If he doesn't pay a lot and choose quantity over quality, and a guy work outs well, then he gets the genius label. If none of them work out, well, there were no expectations for them to do so anyway, so no biggy. We live and die by low risk/possible high reward transactions. Not saying that's not a good way to do things, but if that's the way you do almost everything, I think that's a problem.

[Dman]

I am no Scout and know very little about the Cuban defector. If he is a potential ace then the Twins need to do everything they can to get him because we have no pitching prospects capable of being an ace in double A or Triple A that I can tell.

 

TR is going to have to do something soon because he cannot get the pitching he needs soon enough through the draft to match the other prospects level of play in a timely manner.

 

If they get rid of Morneau and Carrol's contracts they have 20 Million a year to play with for next year. Even if this guy flopped it wouldn't hurt this team that badly while they wait out the contract. If they didn't sign anyone else then payroll wouldn't even increase from last year. If this might be the guy they can afford to do this.

 

I know free agents do not necessarily equal success but we are starved for pitching and should be more desperate to find some than we appear to be. Even teams that have good pitching are still looking for better pitching. Why can't we outbid somebody for once?

[Mike Sixel]

The Twins don't outbid others because TR does not want to. It is really that simple.

 

edit: IMO, this is why he quit the first time. He could not stomach signing Mauer to that big a deal. It's why he did not act on Hunter or Santana.

[TheLeviathan]

Could you point out my exact words where I criticized him for wanting to excape poverty? Are you making a death defying leap here? Why did you omit he hasn't pitched in 2 years when you calculated the 95% of all pitchers on the planet?

 

He hasn't pitched for two years in part because he tried to escape. That is a flimsy reason. Plenty of time to stretch him back out to be ready next year. You were looking for anything to grab on to in your rush to defend. Gonzalez may not be a good fit but pretty soon a strategy devoid of taking risks will catch up to you. THat is the heart of Reusse's point and it is dead on, blind allegiance or no.

[ThePuck]

The Twins don't outbid others because TR does not want to. It is really that simple.

 

edit: IMO, this is why he quit the first time. He could not stomach signing Mauer to that big a deal. It's why he did not act on Hunter or Santana.

 

Yes it is, but that's not going to stop people from arguing otherwise. And you know this.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Yes it is, but that's not going to stop people from arguing otherwise. And you know this.

 

I think it's pretty hard to say that's why TR quit with certainty but it certainly isn't out of the realm of possibility given his actions since returning to the position.

 

I just can't figure out why he's being so bloody cheap. Of course, he might go after a bunch of international prospects and change our minds but with every passing day I'm increasingly skeptical of that happening.

[Mike Sixel]

It is totally a guess, based on his actions and statements. Clearly, only Ryan knows why he quit before. I should have just left that part out......

[ThePuck]

I think it's pretty hard to say that's why TR quit with certainty but it certainly isn't out of the realm of possibility given his actions since returning to the position.

 

I just can't figure out why he's being so bloody cheap. Of course, he might go after a bunch of international prospects and change our minds but with every passing day I'm increasingly skeptical of that happening.

 

When taking Mike's quote, I should have cut the 2nd part. My response was solely meant to be about what he originally said, not his edit part. That's not to say that his second part isn't debatable, but it's not clear that's what happened since I can't read his TR's intent and it's reasonable to believe there were many other things that prompted him. Burnout being one of them. Wanting to get back to what he loves, scouting, is another

[Brock Beauchamp]

It is totally a guess, based on his actions and statements. Clearly, only Ryan knows why he quit before. I should have just left that part out......

 

Well, it's not unreasonable speculation. Something drove him out of the chair... My vote probably goes for "burn out" but not wanting to deal with the Hunter/Santana/Mauer situation may have been involved in the decision... After all, he left Smith in a really bad situation without a lot of good choices. He really should have done something a little more proactive than allowing a mess to accumulate and then saying "all yours".

[Alex]

It's an interesting way to do things. If he doesn't pay a lot and choose quantity over quality, and a guy work outs well, then he gets the genius label. If none of them work out, well, there were no expectations for them to do so anyway, so no biggy. We live and die by low risk/possible high reward transactions. Not saying that's not a good way to do things, but if that's the way you do almost everything, I think that's a problem.

 

Everyone is low risk/high reward. The problem with Ryan is he is never willing to take a shot a high risk/high upside player.

 

I'd argue that Ryan is overall, low risk/marginal reward type spender and every once in awhile there is a big hit, that hasn't lasted or hasn't been returned for value. The only place he's arguably done that is in the pen (Burton, Fien) where you have the lowest value and most transitional players, and there were plenty of failures there besides those two in the last couple of seasons.

[ThePuck]

Everyone is low risk/high reward. The problem with Ryan is he is never willing to take a shot a high risk/high upside player.

 

I'd argue that Ryan is overall, low risk/marginal reward type spender and every once in awhile there is a big hit, that hasn't lasted or hasn't been returned for value. The only place he's arguably done that is in the pen (Burton, Fien) where you have the lowest value and most transitional players, and there were plenty of failures there besides those two in the last couple of seasons.

 

I'm not sure how your first sentence isn't contradicted by your second sentence. You say everyone is low risk/high reward then say there are high risk/high reward players. Can you clear up my misunderstanding, please?

[TheLeviathan]

True or not, this brand of writing just breeds ill-informed sports fans. Start with a subjective, flavor-of-the-day assertion that management is guiding the club in the wrong direction, add an appeal to ignorance, finish with a further irrelevant comparison to another sport, and you have a Star Trib article.

 

Feeling a bit cynical this morning haha...

 

I would argue the TWins don't need any help with that. Three putrid seasons that have ranged from awful to unbearable to watch probably accomplishes more than anything Pat Reusse can write.