Teams showing interest in Morneau, Perkins

[nicksaviking]

Yes. He'd be well worth it. He's 27.

 

Which is why he'll turn it down. The Yankees will offer it to him, he'll turn it down and the Twins won't be interested as they won't want to give up a draft pick. Nor would I want them to.

 

If the Twins can't get anything with upside for Morneau, they still need to consider doing the same. I will not be happy with another Liriano trade. I know, I know, "He wasn't that good and we shouldn't have expected that much for him!" but that wasn't the point. The Twins can't be taking on more AAAA players to take up 40-man roster spots. Considering what is coming through the system and the fact that a couple of the guys will need to be added before their service time requires, means they need to manage their roster better.

 

Mis-managing the 40-man and clogging it with low upside AAAA players is going to cause this team to lose better players than Joe Benson going forward. Wasting roster spots on more Hernadez/Escobar types may at some point do more damage than letting Morneau go for nothing.

[ThePuck]

Which is why he'll turn it down. The Yankees will offer it to him, he'll turn it down and the Twins won't be interested as they won't want to give up a draft pick. Nor would I want them to.

 

If the Twins can't get anything with upside for Morneau, they still need to consider doing the same. I will not be happy with another Liriano trade. I know, I know, "He wasn't that good and we shouldn't have expected that much for him!" but that wasn't the point. The Twins can't be taking on more AAAA players to take up 40-man roster spots. Considering what is coming through the system and the fact that a couple of the guys will need to be added before their service time requires, means they need to manage their roster better.

 

Mis-managing the 40-man and clogging it with low upside AAAA players is going to cause this team to lose better players than Joe Benson going forward. Wasting roster spots on more Hernadez/Escobar types may at some point do more damage than letting Morneau go for nothing.

 

You don't think Hughes would be worth a 2nd round pick? That's what we'd give up, right. Or am I wrong about that? He has a career ERA barely over 4.00 away from Yankees stadium while playing in the toughest division in baseball.

[nicksaviking]

You don't think Hughes would be worth a 2nd round pick? That's what we'd give up, right. Or am I wrong about that? He has a career ERA barely over 4.00 away from Yankees stadium while playing in the toughest division in baseball.

 

The pick probably. The pick and the money? Not in my opinion. If the Twins give away their 2nd rounder, I'd think Josh Johnson would be the target. Though I would be surprised if Ryan would be willing to give up a high 2nd rounder for anyone.

 

He's probably going to be a sneaky decent pitcher away from Yankee Stadium, but baseball genius is not exclusive to this board. If we think it, likely it will cross the mind of every GM. I would wager he is going to get a contract in length and in money that we will all be disgusted by this off season due to his age, big name status, and splits that support a likely improvement away from NY.

[ThePuck]

The pick probably. The pick and the money? Not in my opinion. Though I would be surprised if Ryan would be willing to give up a high 2nd rounder at all.

 

He's probably going to be a sneaky decent pitcher away from Yankee Stadium, but baseball genius is not exclusive to this board. If we think it, likely it will cross the mind of every GM. I would wager he is going to get a contract in length and in money that we will all be disgusted by this off season due to his age, big name status, and splits that support a likely improvement away from NY.

 

Yeah, that all makes sense.

[BabyJesusBuxton]

Which is why he'll turn it down. The Yankees will offer it to him, he'll turn it down and the Twins won't be interested as they won't want to give up a draft pick. Nor would I want them to.

 

If the Twins can't get anything with upside for Morneau, they still need to consider doing the same. I will not be happy with another Liriano trade. I know, I know, "He wasn't that good and we shouldn't have expected that much for him!" but that wasn't the point. The Twins can't be taking on more AAAA players to take up 40-man roster spots. Considering what is coming through the system and the fact that a couple of the guys will need to be added before their service time requires, means they need to manage their roster better.

 

Mis-managing the 40-man and clogging it with low upside AAAA players is going to cause this team to lose better players than Joe Benson going forward. Wasting roster spots on more Hernadez/Escobar types may at some point do more damage than letting Morneau go for nothing.

 

Perhaps this could be a reason to try and make a Morneau/Hughes trade. Prevent the Yankees from making a QA and having a chance to extend him while helping fill in one of the many holes in the rotation for the last two months of the season.

 

Again this trade is unlikely but I wouldn't mind a SP on an expiring contract for Morneau in lieu of a prospect that likely won't be anything better than a future bullpen arm/utility infielder.

[TKGuy]

Is Pineida ready to come back to the bigs? They don't have anyone to fill in besides Hughes, do they?

[diehardtwinsfan]

You don't think Hughes would be worth a 2nd round pick? That's what we'd give up, right. Or am I wrong about that? He has a career ERA barely over 4.00 away from Yankees stadium while playing in the toughest division in baseball.

 

The Twins are in no position to be giving away draft picks... especially in what is being called a very deep draft. They will likely be in the top 5, meaning they can still find a nice difference maker in the 2nd round.

 

I like Hughes in Minnesota, but I don't see trading a pick to make it happen.

[ThePuck]

The Twins are in no position to be giving away draft picks...

 

Sure they are. They have the top farm system in the majors. A 2nd round pick for a pitcher like Hughes that could be giving us sub 4.00 ERA for 5, 6 years, absolutely. A proven player as opposed to hoping our #2 draft picks makes it sometime.

 

Now, nicksaviking said draft pick and the money to sign him may not be worth it. That makes sense. The combo of things makes sense. Then again, the more I think about it, who else will we be spending our money on? So while I think his thought on this has serious merit, and could certainly be correct, I'm not 100% sold.

 

This is all a debate, cause it won't happen.

[old nurse]

The pick probably. The pick and the money? Not in my opinion. If the Twins give away their 2nd rounder, I'd think Josh Johnson would be the target. .

What would make you think the Twins would want Johnson other than they have an abundance of AAAA arms to call up for when he is injured

[TheLeviathan]

What would make you think the Twins would want Johnson other than they have an abundance of AAAA arms to call up for when he is injured

 

Seems odd we'd worry about pitching AAAA pitchers when we do that anyway. I'll take the gamble.

[Oxtung]

Sure they are. They have the top farm system in the majors. A 2nd round pick for a pitcher like Hughes that could be giving us sub 4.00 ERA for 5, 6 years, absolutely. A proven player as opposed to hoping our #2 draft picks makes it sometime.

 

Now, nicksaviking said draft pick and the money to sign him may not be worth it. That makes sense. The combo of things makes sense. Then again, the more I think about it, who else will we be spending our money on? So while I think his thought on this has serious merit, and could certainly be correct, I'm not 100% sold.

 

This is all a debate, cause it won't happen.

 

Hughes has had 1 season of sub 4.00 ERA and that was when he pitched out of the bullpen. His career ERA is 4.42. He hasn't been an above average pitcher in years. I don't get the fascination.

 

If the Twins are going to give up a draft pick it should be for a pitcher that is above average.

[Oxtung]

What would make you think the Twins would want Johnson other than they have an abundance of AAAA arms to call up for when he is injured

 

I agree that the Twins probably won't. They avoid risk like the plague. IMO however, 20 starts from Josh Johnson + 10 starts from Hendriks/Walters/AAAA dujour is better than 30 starts from Pelfrey/Correia/Marquis/Livan Hernandez.

[ThePuck]

Hughes has had 1 season of sub 4.00 ERA and that was when he pitched out of the bullpen. His career ERA is 4.42. He hasn't been an above average pitcher in years. I don't get the fascination.

 

If the Twins are going to give up a draft pick it should be for a pitcher that is above average.

 

His career ERA away from New York is barely over 4.00. Take him away from the run happy division and away from Yankee Stadium and let's see how it works out. That's something I'd like to see.

[nicksaviking]

What would make you think the Twins would want Johnson other than they have an abundance of AAAA arms to call up for when he is injured

 

Well the injury history actually is why I think he is more likely. Because of his age and health, I would not be surprised if Hughes gets a 4-5 year deal. With his injury history, I wouldn't be surprised if Johnson had to take a 2-3, perhaps even a 1-year prove-it deal depending on how he finishes the season. I think it's a safe assumption that if on the off chance Ryan was going to gamble, it would be with money, not with years.

[nicksaviking]

I agree that the Twins probably won't. They avoid risk like the plague. IMO however, 20 starts from Josh Johnson + 10 starts from Hendriks/Walters/AAAA dujour is better than 30 starts from Pelfrey/Correia/Marquis/Livan Hernandez.

 

Not to mention the 30 starts from the replacement level pitchers all too often ends up a dozen starts from said pitcher and 18 from the AAAA guys that replace him once he's been DFA'd.

[Major League Ready]

His career ERA away from New York is barely over 4.00. Take him away from the run happy division and away from Yankee Stadium and let's see how it works out. That's something I'd like to see.

 

Me too! He might not be an ace be he would look like one at Target field compared to what we have been stuck with the past couple years.

[AlwaysinModeration]

Great idea if Hughes could be extended. I would not mind seeing that one come to fruition. However, I have this feeling that Pelfey is going to get back to top form and we might be able to retain him. How many guys do you want to add when hopefully Meyer and may are close and who knows what is going to happen with Alex Wimmers.

 

As many as possible.

[Otto von Ballpark]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but how often do guys sign extensions just two months away from free agency? Especially when they are traded just two months before free agency? I think Hughes might be working on the same principle as Liriano last season -- a good month or two could really boost his payday.

[Oxtung]

Me too! He might not be an ace be he would look like one at Target field compared to what we have been stuck with the past couple years.

 

So would a lot of the FA pitchers available. Why would you chose one that would, supposedly, cost you a draft pick? Or, if you are set on losing the draft pick, why wouldn't you actually go after a pitcher that has a track record of being good in that case?

[Otwins]

Is Pineida ready to come back to the bigs? They don't have anyone to fill in besides Hughes, do they?

 

Pineda finished his rehab starts about 10 days ago and the Yanks just optioned him to the minors. His ERA in his rehab starts was below 3.

[AllhopeisgoneMNTWINS]

Is Morneau a type A or B FA this offseason? If you cant get anything better from another team for him just hold onto him and get the compensation pick, we definitely will not get anything better the a C rated prospect for him. Also I believe we should hold onto Perkins. People have the unrealistic expectation that he will command a major prospect or a few, but its not likely. Just like last offseason when people were here dreaming up these awesome trades (for us) it didnt happen because most people believe that the player on their favorite should be worth much more than they actually are worth.

[beckmt]

Twins will not make Morneau a qualifying offer, therefore they will get nothing for him if the keep him, That is why he will be traded. MLBtraderumors reported that they expect Toronto to make Josh Johnson a QO, therefore he would cost Minnesota a second round pick. I do not expect the Twins to make an offer to Johnson greater that the 13.8 million he will get for taking the QO. Might be worth it, but also might be more risk than TR will accept. Would hope TR would take the gamble if he looks sound the rest of the year. Money should not be an issue next year to get a #1 or #2 starter.

[wagwan]

The Twins won't get a pick for Morneau. In order to get a pick, they would have to offer him at least 15 million. This has been pointed out several times on these boards. He will not turn down 15 mill and so the net result will be the same situation as we have now, only one year later. Given that scenario, instead trade him for pitching now and get him back for 10 mill or less next year.

[cmb0252]

Is Morneau a type A or B FA this offseason? If you cant get anything better from another team for him just hold onto him and get the compensation pick, we definitely will not get anything better the a C rated prospect for him. Also I believe we should hold onto Perkins. People have the unrealistic expectation that he will command a major prospect or a few, but its not likely. Just like last offseason when people were here dreaming up these awesome trades (for us) it didnt happen because most people believe that the player on their favorite should be worth much more than they actually are worth.

 

Type A and B free agents don't exist any more. Teams have to offer their free agents a qualified offer, ~13+ million for one year, to get a pick. The Twins won't offer Morny that because there is no way he would turn it down since he has been very average.

 

To the Josh Johnson talk. While he has shown front of the rotation stuff he is always injured. I don't see any chance that Ryan brakes the bank on a pitcher who hits the DL twice a year. Especially because a dumb team, looking at you dodgers, will over last him.

[AllhopeisgoneMNTWINS]

Type A and B free agents don't exist any more. Teams have to offer their free agents a qualified offer, ~13+ million for one year, to get a pick. The Twins won't offer Morny that because there is no way he would turn it down since he has been very average.

 

Thanks CMB i guess i have played to much MLB 2k13. Well then its time to ship Morneau out for that C rated prospect.

[AllhopeisgoneMNTWINS]

On the Josh Johnson talk as well. How much do you think he will be go for this offseason? 1,2,3 or more year deal and how much? I believe that although he is injured a lot he would be worth around a 2 year 20 million dollar deal and that would definitely be worth the 130 innings of 3.5 to 3.8 ERA he would give you for those innings.

[cmb0252]

On the Josh Johnson talk as well. How much do you think he will be go for this offseason? 1,2,3 or more year deal and how much? I believe that although he is injured a lot he would be worth around a 2 year 20 million dollar deal and that would definitely be worth the 130 innings of 3.5 to 3.8 ERA he would give you for those innings.

 

Damn CBA changing their rules! Everyone seems confused about one of the many changes they made. I have to look them up still.

 

If we could get JJ for 2 years 20 million I would be doing back flips. I just feel with the current state of the pitching market that teams are going to over pay JJ. I obviously could be wrong. I'm no expert on off season signings and a lot depends on how he pitches down the stretch. I just feel if Ryan gets in a bidding war for a player we are bound to lose. Especially with how bad we are. No one is rushing to sign with a team who might lose 90 games for a third straight year.

[AllhopeisgoneMNTWINS]

Damn CBA changing their rules! Everyone seems confused about one of the many changes they made. I have to look them up still.

 

If we could get JJ for 2 years 20 million I would be doing back flips. I just feel with the current state of the pitching market that teams are going to over pay JJ. I obviously could be wrong. I'm no expert on off season signings and a lot depends on how he pitches down the stretch. I just feel if Ryan gets in a bidding war for a player we are bound to lose. Especially with how bad we are. No one is rushing to sign with a team who might lose 90 games for a third straight year.

 

Yeah, he might command more tha 10 million a year. Maybe 11-13 million a year. I agree with everything that you said. We would definitely have to overpay for a FA due to the fact nobody is interested in the current mess that is the Twins organization. I still believe that we should go after Johnson though, but like you said we would likely lose in a bidding war. We need to go after a good pitcher this offseason, but we're the Twins, not likely going to happen.

[Oxtung]

Talented pitchers that profile as 1/2 starters will always be in demand and make truckloads of money in FA. As long as Johnson pitches the rest of this season he will be in line for a Sanchez like deal, IMO. Perhaps he will only get 4 years due to his injury history. Of course if he goes back on the DL and there are specific injury concerns, not just generic "he has been injured in the past", then he could get a 1 or 2 year make good deal like Marcum got this year but for a higher salary.

[ThePuck]

No one is rushing to sign with a team who might lose 90 games for a third straight year.

 

Last year the argument was lose 90 games for a second straight year. After 2010, the reason we didn't go get quality FA was because we didn't need them. There will always, and I mean always, be a way to excuse the team when they don't go and get top quality players in FA. Either we did well and don't need them, so it's totally understandable we didn't go and improve our team, or it's okay we didn't get any quality FAs cause no one wants to come here because apparently, even after winning for over a decade very recently, we've lost two straight seasons so we're 'team non grata' (a play off of the expression persona non grata).