2013 Trade Deadline

[TheLeviathan]

Now that the deals are happening, I figured there might as well be a thread to post deals and comment.

 

White Sox dealt Matt Thornton and cash to Boston for Brandon Jacobs.

 

Thornton is due about 2.5M yet the rest of the year. He's been dominant against lefties: 173/232/351 slash line against him. He's also pitching extremely well on the road vs. home. All good signs for the Red Sox.

 

Jacobs appears to have been a disappointment for BoSox fans coming into the season. He was just promoted to AA a few days ago after he's had a torrid week and a half. Appears to be a switch hitter with some power potential.

 

To me, when I look at Thornton's performance so far this year, this doesn't look like a particularly good haul. Not sure that says anything about the market for Perkins, but I suppose you could make that case.

[diehardtwinsfan]

He's sporting a 3.8 ERA and a 6.75 K/9. He's walking 3 per 9 as well. I think that's probably closer to a comparable return for Duensing (though admittedly, Thornton is having a better year) than it is to Perkins.

[TheLeviathan]

He's sporting a 3.8 ERA and a 6.75 K/9. He's walking 3 per 9 as well. I think that's probably closer to a comparable return for Duensing (though admittedly, Thornton is having a better year) than it is to Perkins.

 

I'd say he's been markedly better than Duensing, but Duensing has team control left and some youth. So probably a wash as you said.

[TheLeviathan]

Final deal: Cubs trade Matt Garza to the Rangers for Mike Olt, C.J. Edwards, Justin Grimm and PTBNL.

 

I think the Cubs did pretty darn well for themselves with that.

[Oxtung]

Final deal: Cubs trade Matt Garza to the Rangers for Mike Olt, C.J. Edwards, Justin Grimm and PTBNL.

 

I think the Cubs did pretty darn well for themselves with that.

 

The Cubs traded 2 top 100 prospects to get Garza from the Rays a few years ago. Today they got 1 back and he is struggling in AAA right now (although Edwards is very intriguing as well). On the other hand they also got 2 really nice seasons (out of 2.5 possible) of pitching from Garza as well. All things considered they essentially gave up a top 100 prospect for 2.5 seasons of a really nice pitcher. That's probably pretty reasonable.

[drjim]

Final deal: Cubs trade Matt Garza to the Rangers for Mike Olt, C.J. Edwards, Justin Grimm and PTBNL.

 

I think the Cubs did pretty darn well for themselves with that.

 

That is a solid haul. More reason to trade Perkins?

[TheLeviathan]

That is a solid haul. More reason to trade Perkins?

 

Lets hope so! Different assets being shopped, but encouraging that some good deals are being floated out there.

[Danchat]

Brewers send Francisco Rodriguez (K-rod) to the Baltimore O's for Nick Delmonico, a former 6th round pick infielder who was ranked 4th in their system. He's at high A ball.

So, anybody think that's around what we could get for Burton/Fien/Perkins? (obviously more for Perkins...)

[Linus]

That is a solid haul. More reason to trade Perkins?

 

Comparing the market for Perkins vs Garza is a serious mismatch. No way Perkins draws the return that Garza did - and I am a big Perkins fan.

 

Thanks Bill Smith.

[Kwak]

Brewers send Francisco Rodriguez (K-rod) to the Baltimore O's for Nick Delmonico, a former 6th round pick infielder who was ranked 4th in their system. He's at high A ball.

So, anybody think that's around what we could get for Burton/Fien/Perkins? (obviously more for Perkins...)

 

This trade warms the cockels of my heart. I got flamed for using K-ROD as an example of a playoff-veteran closer who would be in demand ("He's horrible!").

[stringer bell]

While Perkins is a 30 y.o. LH closer and Garza is a 29 y.o. RH starter. Perkins is very good to elite while Garza is very good. In terms of value, it is evened up by the contracts. Perkins is signed for two more years, with an option for a third. Garza is in his walk year.

[old nurse]

Brewers send Francisco Rodriguez (K-rod) to the Baltimore O's for Nick Delmonico, a former 6th round pick infielder who was ranked 4th in their system. He's at high A ball.

So, anybody think that's around what we could get for Burton/Fien/Perkins? (obviously more for Perkins...)

 

Delmonico was nearing being a top 100. Burton might net a 150-200 if a team is desperate. If the Twins are looking at a AA/AAA kind of prospect, near 200 ranking. If Fien continues to progress he could get something useful next year in return. Perkins has a better record over the last two years so a much better prospect and throw ins would be expected. Decline to comment if that would be a good idea to trade Perkins.

[cmb0252]

White Sox reject an offer from the Cardinals built around long time top prospect Carlos Martinez for Alexei Ramirez.

 

ChiSox Reject Cardinals' Offer For Alexei Ramirez: MLB Rumors - MLBTradeRumors.com

[markos]

Brewers send Francisco Rodriguez (K-rod) to the Baltimore O's for Nick Delmonico, a former 6th round pick infielder who was ranked 4th in their system. He's at high A ball.

So, anybody think that's around what we could get for Burton/Fien/Perkins? (obviously more for Perkins...)

 

This indicates to me that trading Burton/Fien/Duensing could be worthwhile for the Twins. Any similarly ranked prospect that could be acquired would be a good move.

[markos]

Pure speculation:

 

Has anyone else thought about a potential Perkins-to-Pittsburgh trade now that their closer, Jason Grilli, is on the DL with elbow/forearm pain? It seems like this could be win-win situation for both clubs.

 

From the Twins perspective, the Pirates have 3 or 4 blue-chip prospects that could headline a deal for Perkins, as well as a deep farm system in general, particularly with pitching. The Pirates have had 20+ years of futility, including two recent late-season collapses. They may be desperate enough to break that streak and make the playoffs that they will be willing to overpay a little for bullpen help.

 

From the Pirates perspective, they have a very deep farm system with multiple blue-chip prospects, so they wouldn't leave themselves barren after a trade. Adding Perkins would help offset Grilli's injury, prevent him from rushing back too soon, and once he is back provide an rock solid 8th and 9th inning combination for the playoffs and next season. And if Grilli is out for a lot longer, Perkins is valid replacement. Also, their window of competitiveness is starting right now, so having 3 additional years on Perkins's contract is a positive. Finally, it will send a message from the front office that they are doing whatever they can to avoid another late-season collapse.

[diehardtwinsfan]

White Sox reject an offer from the Cardinals built around long time top prospect Carlos Martinez for Alexei Ramirez.

 

ChiSox Reject Cardinals' Offer For Alexei Ramirez: MLB Rumors - MLBTradeRumors.com

 

This makes zero sense. If that offer was on the table, the Sox should have taken this and run. Ramirez isn't that good.

[NC-Twins]

Lets hope so! Different assets being shopped, but encouraging that some good deals are being floated out there.

 

I hope not. Perk is performing way better than he is being paid and is a positive figure in the clubhouse and community. I think we can compete next year if we get ace on the starting staff (we have the money) and if a few guys, like Diamond, get it together. Deduno looks great. Only reason to trade Perk is if we don't believe we can compete next year.

[Nick Nelson]

Comparing the market for Perkins vs Garza is a serious mismatch. No way Perkins draws the return that Garza did - and I am a big Perkins fan.

 

Thanks Bill Smith.

Is this true? Garza is a good (I would say not spectacular) starter on the verge of free agency. Perkins is an elite closer under reasonably priced control for three more seasons after this one.

 

I realize the value scales tilt heavily in the direction of a starter over a reliever, but when you account for everything Perkins seems like a far more appealing piece.

[ThePuck]

In the last 7 seasons, Garza has never finished a season with an ERA that started with a number greater than 3. During that time he's never had an ERA+ under 100. If he stays healthy, he'll give you close to, if not, 200IP. Texas wanted him last year, they got him this year. I wouldn't be supriised if they extend him. He's a very valuable starter.

[stringer bell]

Is this true? Garza is a good (I would say not spectacular) starter on the verge of free agency. Perkins is an elite closer under reasonably priced control for three more seasons after this one.

 

I realize the value scales tilt heavily in the direction of a starter over a reliever, but when you account for everything Perkins seems like a far more appealing piece.

I was trying to say the same thing. Given his contract and handedness, Perkins is very valuable.

[stringer bell]

Pure speculation:

 

Has anyone else thought about a potential Perkins-to-Pittsburgh trade now that their closer, Jason Grilli, is on the DL with elbow/forearm pain? It seems like this could be win-win situation for both clubs.

 

From the Twins perspective, the Pirates have 3 or 4 blue-chip prospects that could headline a deal for Perkins, as well as a deep farm system in general, particularly with pitching. The Pirates have had 20+ years of futility, including two recent late-season collapses. They may be desperate enough to break that streak and make the playoffs that they will be willing to overpay a little for bullpen help.

 

From the Pirates perspective, they have a very deep farm system with multiple blue-chip prospects, so they wouldn't leave themselves barren after a trade. Adding Perkins would help offset Grilli's injury, prevent him from rushing back too soon, and once he is back provide an rock solid 8th and 9th inning combination for the playoffs and next season. And if Grilli is out for a lot longer, Perkins is valid replacement. Also, their window of competitiveness is starting right now, so having 3 additional years on Perkins's contract is a positive. Finally, it will send a message from the front office that they are doing whatever they can to avoid another late-season collapse.

Beyond everything else, if the Pirates were to implode this year or didn't need Perk as a closer next year, they could trade him for a lot since he is under team control at a nice number for three more years.

[jokin]

Pure speculation:

 

Has anyone else thought about a potential Perkins-to-Pittsburgh trade now that their closer, Jason Grilli, is on the DL with elbow/forearm pain? It seems like this could be win-win situation for both clubs.

 

From the Twins perspective, the Pirates have 3 or 4 blue-chip prospects that could headline a deal for Perkins, as well as a deep farm system in general, particularly with pitching. The Pirates have had 20+ years of futility, including two recent late-season collapses. They may be desperate enough to break that streak and make the playoffs that they will be willing to overpay a little for bullpen help.

 

From the Pirates perspective, they have a very deep farm system with multiple blue-chip prospects, so they wouldn't leave themselves barren after a trade. Adding Perkins would help offset Grilli's injury, prevent him from rushing back too soon, and once he is back provide an rock solid 8th and 9th inning combination for the playoffs and next season. And if Grilli is out for a lot longer, Perkins is valid replacement. Also, their window of competitiveness is starting right now, so having 3 additional years on Perkins's contract is a positive. Finally, it will send a message from the front office that they are doing whatever they can to avoid another late-season collapse.

 

Excellent. As I've said all along, the Twins should be working the phones especially hard with the Bucs, Braves, Cards and Rays. They all have bullpen needs, have multiple prospects, and are operating on a limited budget.

[Kwak]

The Twins have a history of valuing a closer very highly. If the Twins were to trade Perkins they would have forgo the pretense of winning/contending until they actually have the record of a winner. Most likely, they would have to make a significant move in the off-season (especially if Gardenhire is extended) to replace Perkins with a "real closer". That pitcher is likely to cost more than Perkins, likely not as good as Perkins, and forget about a MN connection. Given all of the hoops that would have to be jumped, the return on the trade must be impeccable and have someone who will be on the 2014 active roster. I don't think Ryan has the pixie dust to pull that trade off.

[diehardtwinsfan]

Pure speculation:

 

Has anyone else thought about a potential Perkins-to-Pittsburgh trade now that their closer, Jason Grilli, is on the DL with elbow/forearm pain? It seems like this could be win-win situation for both clubs.

 

From the Twins perspective, the Pirates have 3 or 4 blue-chip prospects that could headline a deal for Perkins, as well as a deep farm system in general, particularly with pitching. The Pirates have had 20+ years of futility, including two recent late-season collapses. They may be desperate enough to break that streak and make the playoffs that they will be willing to overpay a little for bullpen help.

 

From the Pirates perspective, they have a very deep farm system with multiple blue-chip prospects, so they wouldn't leave themselves barren after a trade. Adding Perkins would help offset Grilli's injury, prevent him from rushing back too soon, and once he is back provide an rock solid 8th and 9th inning combination for the playoffs and next season. And if Grilli is out for a lot longer, Perkins is valid replacement. Also, their window of competitiveness is starting right now, so having 3 additional years on Perkins's contract is a positive. Finally, it will send a message from the front office that they are doing whatever they can to avoid another late-season collapse.

 

I don't see this working as well as we'd like. Cole is already in the majors, so we are gunning for Tallison (who isn't available). If memory serves me right, they don't have blue chip pitching after that, though I think Sickel's number 3 for their system is an SS prospect that would be a good fit. Plus, Pit isn't paying for a "proven closer". I don't see them interested in overpaying for Perk.

[Oxtung]

I don't see this working as well as we'd like. Cole is already in the majors, so we are gunning for Tallison (who isn't available). If memory serves me right, they don't have blue chip pitching after that, though I think Sickel's number 3 for their system is an SS prospect that would be a good fit. Plus, Pit isn't paying for a "proven closer". I don't see them interested in overpaying for Perk.

 

They have a few other arms that are interesting.

 

Taylor Glasnow 19yo A ball: 2.27 ERA, 87IP, 46H, 48 BB, 122 K's, .154 BAA, 1.08 WHIP

Nick Kingham 21yo A+/AA: 3.01 ERA, 113IP, 91H, 28 BB, 110K's, .217 BAA, 1.05 WHIP

Victor Black 25yo AAA Relief: 2.31ERA, 35 IP, 20H, 13 BB, 51K's, .161 BAA, 0.94 WHIP

 

All of these guys have FB's that can touch 95. Black is obviously a reliever but could be part of a package of players perhaps including Alen Hanson the SS, although there is question if he can stay there. They also have a top 100 pitcher named Luis Heredia, who is only 18, at A ball this season but he has been injured most of the year only pitching in 6 games.

[nicksaviking]

Pure speculation:

 

Has anyone else thought about a potential Perkins-to-Pittsburgh trade now that their closer, Jason Grilli, is on the DL with elbow/forearm pain? It seems like this could be win-win situation for both clubs.

 

I like the idea of trading with Pittsburgh, but even with Grilli out, their bullpen is strong. Their set-up guy Melancon was an All-Star after all.

[drjim]

If the Twins trade Perkins it has to be for a SS or SP that is going to be in the bigs no later than May. Anything else and I wouldn't be interested.

[markos]

I don't see this working as well as we'd like. Cole is already in the majors, so we are gunning for Tallison (who isn't available). If memory serves me right, they don't have blue chip pitching after that, though I think Sickel's number 3 for their system is an SS prospect that would be a good fit. Plus, Pit isn't paying for a "proven closer". I don't see them interested in overpaying for Perk.

 

Taillon is their best prospect, but Gregory Polanco (OF) is a consensus top-20 prospect in baseball right now, and Alen Hanson (SS) and Tyler Glasnow (SP) are both top-50 guys. I would be fine with any of those 4 headlining a Perkins trade. If it is someone other than Taillon, I'd hope for at least one other decent prospect to go with it.

[AROG]

The Twins have a history of valuing a closer very highly. If the Twins were to trade Perkins they would have forgo the pretense of winning/contending until they actually have the record of a winner. Most likely, they would have to make a significant move in the off-season (especially if Gardenhire is extended) to replace Perkins with a "real closer". That pitcher is likely to cost more than Perkins, likely not as good as Perkins, and forget about a MN connection. Given all of the hoops that would have to be jumped, the return on the trade must be impeccable and have someone who will be on the 2014 active roster. I don't think Ryan has the pixie dust to pull that trade off.

 

I think Florimon is developing into a fine shortstop. You don't need to hit there if you can hit other places. I think if we traded Perk we would bring up Tonkin and give him the job till he looses it. I would like to see a AAA pitcher, mediocre to them but better then most we have, a A-AA SP with huge upside and A-AA infielder with the same.

[markos]

The Twins have a history of valuing a closer very highly. If the Twins were to trade Perkins they would have forgo the pretense of winning/contending until they actually have the record of a winner. Most likely, they would have to make a significant move in the off-season (especially if Gardenhire is extended) to replace Perkins with a "real closer". That pitcher is likely to cost more than Perkins, likely not as good as Perkins, and forget about a MN connection. Given all of the hoops that would have to be jumped, the return on the trade must be impeccable and have someone who will be on the 2014 active roster. I don't think Ryan has the pixie dust to pull that trade off.

 

Though you have hit the nail right on the head with how the Twins (particularly Gardenhire) have valued proven closers over the years, I would hope that they would be able to use the remainder of this season to settle on a closer for next year, probably with Burton getting the first shot, or in the case he is traded either Fien or Tonkin. Maybe they will find someone they are comfortable with instead of having to sign someone during the offseason.