Liriano

[kydoty]

Dude's about to go 9-3 with an ERA of 2.00 over 76.2 IP.

 

Not saying we should've kept him. I'm just wondering what is so drastically different now than the last few years.

[clutterheart]

His stats are pretty similar to his 2010 stats - except his ERA.

 

He seems to be giving up a lot of walks. The big number that is down is the HR number.

He has only given up 3 HR in 76 IP

In 2012 he gave up 19 in 156 IP

His GB rate is back above 50%.

For some reason in 2011 & 2012 he gave up more Fly Balls and more of those became HR. This looks to be the biggest statistical difference that stands out to me.

 

Part of this must be from switching to the NL from the AL, also PNC park doesn't give up many HR.

[SpitefulRabbit617]

NL is always good to former twins pitchers........

[Thrylos]

His stats are pretty similar to his 2010 stats - except his ERA.

 

He seems to be giving up a lot of walks. The big number that is down is the HR number.

He has only given up 3 HR in 76 IP

In 2012 he gave up 19 in 156 IP

His GB rate is back above 50%.

For some reason in 2011 & 2012 he gave up more Fly Balls and more of those became HR. This looks to be the biggest statistical difference that stands out to me.

 

Part of this must be from switching to the NL from the AL, also PNC park doesn't give up many HR.

 

While Target Field does

 

The fact that his numbers are pretty close to his 2010 numbers (including the HR/9; other than his WHIP being a little less, due to the AL to NL change) is an astute observation.

 

Why? Could be lots of reasons, including getting healthy from an undisclosed ailment, getting more confident and being able to pitch without thinking so much, getting a change of scenery and a fresh beginning, getting more effective coaching and (last but not least) entering his career prime. This is his age 29 season...

[IdahoPilgrim]

I'm glad for him he's having a good year.

 

The question is what will he do next year? He had good years in 2008 and 2010 only to be followed by stinkers in 2009 and 2011 (and 2012).

 

My guess, and I hope for his sake I'm wrong, is that he'll finish the year strong, and that this will be the year that makes Pittsburgh think they've found something and causes them to keep giving him chances the next two years, which will be sub-par.

 

Nobody has said he doesn't have good stuff. He just has not been consistent from year-to-year. Maybe this time will be different

[Guest USAFChief]

I'm in a small minority, but I thought the Twins should have extended Liriano (cheaply) last year. Too good of an arm to let go for basically nothing, especially for an organization so short on quality arms.

[drjim]

I'm in a small minority, but I thought the Twins should have extended Liriano (cheaply) last year. Too good of an arm to let go for basically nothing, especially for an organization so short on quality arms.

 

Probably would have needed a change of pitching coaches too.

[iastfan112]

Relying on his slider. He's thrown more sliders this year than any year since his injury and less fastballs as well. Probably a good move if you struggle with your control regardless of pitch, might as well throw more of the one that generates swings and misses.

[diehardtwinsfan]

I wouldn't have minded them extending him, but I get the distinct impression that Liriano needed a change of scenery more than anything else. Saw an article on him a month or two ago talking about how he made some minor adjustments to his pitching techniques as well.

[TheLeviathan]

Relying on his slider. He's thrown more sliders this year than any year since his injury and less fastballs as well. Probably a good move if you struggle with your control regardless of pitch, might as well throw more of the one that generates swings and misses.

 

That's also the pitch that he over-threw to a blown-out elbow. Might be something to watch for.

[johnnydakota]

Dude's about to go 9-3 with an ERA of 2.00 over 76.2 IP.

 

Not saying we should've kept him. I'm just wondering what is so drastically different now than the last few years.

 

Could it be a team with a coach who can speak spanish?

si si si yes it could be, to bad we Kept Drew around a couple years ago instead of signing Pudge Rodriquez to be Frankies personal guru catcher

[greengoblinrulz]

Is there any other reason than its his first full season away from Rick Anderson

[striker_86]

Relying on his slider. He's thrown more sliders this year than any year since his injury and less fastballs as well. Probably a good move if you struggle with your control regardless of pitch, might as well throw more of the one that generates swings and misses.

 

Yup, he has been throwing the fastball a lot less. I dont know if that's something the pirates pitching staff worked with him on. Or if the Twins coaching staff just wanted him to pound the fastball even if he was all over the place. Either way, Ill never fault the twins for getting rid of him. We gave him so many chances. Yes, he'll prolly be the #2 starter if the Pirates make the playoffs and Im sure he will look good. Oh well!

[Willihammer]

He's largely abandoned the 4 seemer. His change in pitch usage this year versus 2006-Jul 2012:

 

http://i.imgur.com/1UehE0d.png

 

Look at his profile page on brooksbaseball, the 4 seemer is the one that got hit the hardest, historically.

[jorgenswest]

I'm in a small minority, but I thought the Twins should have extended Liriano (cheaply) last year. Too good of an arm to let go for basically nothing, especially for an organization so short on quality arms.

 

We couldn't force him to sign a cheap contract extension. Why would he? In his mind I am sure he thought he would turn it around in the second half and get a good contract. There would be no motivation to sign that kind of extension.

 

The options available to the Twins last July were to trade him or retain him with hopes that he would pitch well enough to merit a qualifying offer. The Twins correctly assessed that he would not be worth a qualifying offer and traded him. They traded him and received a return in line with rental pitchers performing at his 2012 level.

 

I don't see how extending him cheaply could ever have been an option.

[Guest USAFChief]

We couldn't force him to sign a cheap contract extension. Why would he? In his mind I am sure he thought he would turn it around in the second half and get a good contract. There would be no motivation to sign that kind of extension.

 

 

Liriano was coming into free agency after a year in which he was posting a 5 ERA. He would have gladly listened to a 3 yr offer. Gladly.

 

He ended up with $1M in guaranteed money from the Pirates. He and his agent aren't stupid.

[Butterfingers8]

Is there any other reason than its his first full season away from Rick Anderson

nope, that's about it

[darin617]

Dude's about to go 9-3 with an ERA of 2.00 over 76.2 IP.

 

Not saying we should've kept him. I'm just wondering what is so drastically different now than the last few years.

 

2 words why Liriano would have not had the same success if he would have resigned with Minneosta.

Rick Anderson. Enough said...

[darin617]

Is there any other reason than its his first full season away from Rick Anderson

 

Only other thing would be away from Gardy...

[YourHouseIsMyHouse]

Who's that new Pirates ace? I've been following this guy and he's pretty good. I was thinking it might be Cole or Taillon, but this one throws lefty. Someone help me out?

[Richie the Rally Goat]

I'm in a small minority, but I thought the Twins should have extended Liriano (cheaply) last year. Too good of an arm to let go for basically nothing, especially for an organization so short on quality arms.

I admit that I didn't mind seeing him go, despite the lack of depth at starter. I wonder if he "figured it out" and he would have had a similar statistical first half of 2013 with the Twins, or if it is the change in scenery/team/defense/ballpark/league that is playing the larger role in his success. It's good to see Liriano have some success. I hope he can sustain it. I was wrong about him last season.

[Brock Beauchamp]

I agree that Liriano wouldn't have success under Rick Anderson, except for that time when he had success under Rick Anderson in 2010.

 

If this was Anderson's fault, Don Cooper would have gotten something out of Liriano last season but he was awful for the White Sox.

 

Is it really so hard to admit that the pitcher himself might be responsible for his performance, both good and bad? Pitching coaches can certainly try to tweak things but they can't go out to the mound and throw for the guy.

 

I will never understand why people have to lay blame for. every. single. thing. that. happens.

[zenser]

Who's that new Pirates ace? I've been following this guy and he's pretty good. I was thinking it might be Cole or Taillon, but this one throws lefty. Someone help me out?

 

Jeff Locke?

[Mike Sixel]

I don't think it is the pitching coach at all, I think he's healthy again. That simple. Maybe some small change in pitches also. But blaming Anderson seems a bit too easy.

[Otto von Ballpark]

Liriano was coming into free agency after a year in which he was posting a 5 ERA. He would have gladly listened to a 3 yr offer. Gladly.

 

He ended up with $1M in guaranteed money from the Pirates. He and his agent aren't stupid.

He agreed to a 2/12.75 deal with Pittsburgh. The "$1 million guaranteed" clause was because he hurt his non-throwing arm before they finalized the deal -- it was never likely to affect the original total value.

 

Even if his 2011-2012 struggles were not necessarily the product of Anderson, Gardy, Target Field, etc., I doubt Liriano was interested in signing a similar deal with the Twins. Certainly he would not have been interested last summer, when he still had a few months to help his value.

[Brock Beauchamp]

I don't think it is the pitching coach at all, I think he's healthy again. That simple. Maybe some small change in pitches also. But blaming Anderson seems a bit too easy.

 

I'd call it lazy, honestly.

 

And I don't even like Rick Anderson that much. I think, at best, he's a mediocre-to-decent pitching coach who hasn't evolved enough as the years progressed.

 

There are plenty of reasons to get irritated with the coaching staff on this team. I cannot see how Liriano is one of those reasons. The guy appears to be an emotional rollercoaster and after trying to get the best out of him for half a decade (and even succeeding a couple of times), it was time for both parties to move on. There is simply no need for every organizational move to turn into a finger-pointing contest.

[Blackjack]

Liriano was a head case, I'm glad he moved on - but you knew he had talent that there was a good chance that he'd figure it out, like he is now.

[S.]

I think some folks are forgetting he's only thrown 76 innings this season and in my humble opinion, he's MUCH more likely to blow up or get injured than he is to continue pitching like he has been in said 76 innings. I would've figured most of you have seen enough stretches of Liriano success, followed by significantly longer stretches of mind blowing incompetence to be at least somewhat skeptical about him being able to maintain this level of pitching for any significant period of time.

 

If he can maintain good numbers over the next year and not start going mental out there on the mound or blow out his arm throwing all those sliders, good for him. He's an exciting pitcher to watch when he's on, but I'm far beyond getting my feathers ruffled over another team getting less than half a season worth of success from him. Give him 200+ innings for the Pirates and we'll see what tune they're singing about him then.

[cmathewson]

It is not Anderson. Anderson wanted him to abandon the four seamer and just throw the sinker, slider and change. That's basically waht he is doing this year.

 

I'm sure there are many factors, but the biggest one is familiarity. When you pitch five times a year against the same teams, they eventually figure you out. He's the same lazy head case he was in 2010 and 2011. He's just facing different hitters. I wager his success will diminish as teams figure out how to lay off the slider, and wait him out, as the Tigers did.

[Rosterman]

He's pitching for money. Him and his agent saw the lackluster response he got s a free agent (and why Pittsburgh ante up what they did -- originally for him -- is beyond belief). The tell will be next season, when he is again playing for money. If he keeps his head straight, he can dominate. Hopefully he's not staining his arm!