Keep on losing!

[Smcginnity]

Well, it looks like the Brewers will win tonight along with the White Sox. They will most likely pass the Twins (I think) and that leaves the Marlins and Astros. Keep on losing! Let's get Rodon!

[Badsmerf]

I really don't think anyone wants to cheer for this team to lose. Just not classy. I don't mind that they lose to get a better draft pick in a season that had no hope from the beginning because the GM doesn't like to sign any FA worth their socks and the current team just doesn't have the talent to compete. But I never cheer for them to lose, just expect it.

[Jeremy Nygaard]

I really don't think anyone wants to cheer for this team to lose. Just not classy. I don't mind that they lose to get a better draft pick in a season that had no hope from the beginning because the GM doesn't like to sign any FA worth their socks and the current team just doesn't have the talent to compete. But I never cheer for them to lose, just expect it.

 

I'm with you. In fact, if the Twins did end up in a position to draft Carlos Rodon, the organization from the very top to the very bottom would probably be completely overhauled. Some readers might love that idea; personally, I wouldn't. Someone is (or more likely may people are) responsible for a farm system that ranks near the top of all of baseball. It would be nice if those not-talked-about people got to see the fruits of their labor. And a new GM likely means a complete overhaul of the scouting staff.

[ashbury]

I'm never comfortable with tanking. It's a slippery slope from the GM trying to lose the season for draft picks, to players throwing games for their own reasons.

[cmb0252]

I'm never comfortable with tanking. It's a slippery slope from the GM trying to lose the season for draft picks, to players throwing games for their own reasons.

 

No player or manager who is fighting for their job is going to tank. GMs? They might because of the incentives but Ryan isn't in complete rebuild mode like other teams. It just isn't realistic. Too much money involved. The Twins just blow.

 

I'm not as sentimental as other people around here. Winning 5 more games than last year doesn't mean anything to me. Missing the play offs is missing the play offs. Give me the high draft pick. I don't mind them losing.

[Smcginnity]

I'm not saying 'tank', I'm saying, "Hey, if we lose, mine as well have the teams in front of us (for the 1st overall pick) lose as well"!

 

That's my thinking. I'm always for the team winning and will cheer them on no matter what but in the end, this year was not THE year to compete. 2015 is and beyond.

[diehardtwinsfan]

The season is lost. Tanking intentionally isn't a good idea, but at this point, the 2014 draft position is going to be one of the biggest highlights of the season. Given how deep the draft is, the Twins should be able to have an elite guy with their first pick and a pretty decent one with their second.

[Twins Fan From Afar]

I don't think we need them to lose intentionally.

They've been doing a very good job of it unintentionally!

[JB_Iowa]

I don't think we need them to lose intentionally.

They've been doing a very good job of it unintentionally!

 

And if we look at the schedule for the rest of the year, that's pretty likely to continue.

[InfraRen]

I really don't think anyone wants to cheer for this team to lose. Just not classy. I don't mind that they lose to get a better draft pick in a season that had no hope from the beginning because the GM doesn't like to sign any FA worth their socks and the current team just doesn't have the talent to compete. But I never cheer for them to lose, just expect it.

 

Honestly, at this point - knowing what we have on the field, I DO root for them to lose because in order for them to be better in the future, adding an elite prospect is the way to go. We never splurge in FA, and the reason we're excited for the future is Buxton and Sano, (and Arcia) - so yes, in a draft that is supposed to be stacked from 1-10, I do root for us to end up with a top 5 pick so that SOMEDAY we can be good again. Because it's not going to be this season.

[gunnarthor]

I'd like to see us trade off a few guys as well.

[adjacent]

No, I will never cheer for them to lose. 1) The reason I am fan of a sports team is because I want them to win games. I will never be happy with my team losing, especially if they are losing playing bad baseball. 2) As good and important draft picks are they are just that, draft peaks. There is no guarantee that in the 3-5 years that the kid has to go through the farm system, he doesn't get injured, or simply, doesn't pan out.

If there is one thing I don't like of the draft system, it is that somehow it rewards organizations for losing, without any punishment.

[Dman]

Personally I am hoping they can be in the top 3 of the draft next year and that is going to take a lot of losing. With that said I want the players to do well. Get those batting averages up and ERA's down but find a way to lose by at least 1 run. I know it sucks for this year but we need more pitching and we are unlikely to pay for it in FA. The draft is the only way and we need to find an ace somewhere in the next 2 to 3 years as a lot of young players are going to be ready for MLB. Hopefully just this and next for bad years and then on the way back up for a loooong period of time. Do well but keep losing Twins.

[Red Bull]

Hey man Im totally with you, I have been saying this all year. The teams that stay bad for long periods are the ones that are stuck in neutral, they aren't horrible but they aren't good. You either want to fight for the playoffs or be one of the worst teams in the league and get a top pick(ESPN anchors and other sportswriters say this all the time). And considering most of the players currently on the Twins wont be here in several years and we have no shot at the playoffs we might as well get another top 5 pick. We need pitching in our system in the worst way so lets get another top arm.

 

 

BAL, TEX, PIT, SF and WSH are just several teams who are good now because they hit rock bottom for several years and got their teams best players because of it. Of course it doesn't always work out that way but if the Twins want to be a WS contending team they need to get as many top prospects that can all come up within several years of eachother. Because lets be honest the Twins cant/wont spend as much as NYY or LAA in FA and trades to buy themselves into the playoffs.

[Otto von Ballpark]

I don't like the obvious tanking -- the "Mark Madsen 0-for-7 on three-pointers" tanking, I call it.

 

But definitely, play the youngsters, the underdogs, the longshots, and see what sticks. I'll still root for them to win.

 

Although the current Twins might lose better when they are playing the more expensive veterans, so it's certainly a difficult decision!

[Smcginnity]

Red Bull has a good point. If you look at Washington, they were bad for a long time, until Bryce Harper and Strasburg came up along with their other talent progressing (Detweiler, Zimmerman, Clippard). Then they made a splash with Werth (didn't work out well) and Span. Now they are where they are.

 

Pirates are the perfect example of this. They were bad for a long time, then they hit the jackpot with McCutchen, Locke, Alvarez, Neil Walker, Marte, and Grilli. They made a small (lucky) splash with Liriano and Burnett to get where they are today.

 

Twins can't and won't compete on major FAs and the only way to compete long-term is drafting well, and moving guys through the system successfully. Twins have an opportunity here to capitalize on the youth movement coming up (Buxton, Sano, Rosario, Arcia, Pinto, Hicks, Polanco, Berrios, Meyer, May, Vargas, Kepler) and keep compiling youngsters that can enhance the major league roster. But, we need to get rid of the older, expensive guys (Morneau, Willingham, Carroll, Doumit, Pelfrey, Correia). Hell, I'm all for trading Mauer if you can get a king's ransom. I mean, trading Mauer's contract could actually get us 2-3 good starting pitchers in free agency...it's sad to realize that fact...

[2wins87]

I definitely understand wanting the Twins to get a good draft pick and being okay with them losing more when they've already started tanking.

 

But there's a lot of time before next years draft, and who knows what will happen with Rodon and the other prospects between then. I don't feel like it really makes sense to think that we need to tank so we can get this one specific guy.

 

Also, the worse the Twins do this year, the worse they are likely to be next year. I'd like to see Dozier cement himself as a solid major league infielder. I'd like to see Hicks continue his turnaround and look like a probable breakout next year. I'd like to see Gibson pitch like a #2 starter on a good team. I'd like to see Morneau get his power stroke back whether or not he ends up back in Minnesota next year. If these things happen the Twins will be better overall this year, but I'll also feel a lot more optimistic about next year.

 

The farm system is already looking good and the Twins already look to have at least a top ten pick next year the way things are going, so I'd rather see some of the current Twins put in solid performances then see the team completely tank and get a higher draft pick.

[2wins87]

The teams that stay bad for long periods are the ones that are stuck in neutral, they aren't horrible but they aren't good. You either want to fight for the playoffs or be one of the worst teams in the league and get a top pick(ESPN anchors and other sportswriters say this all the time).

 

I disagree with this. The Royals have been terrible for years because they lack a great scouting and development organization and they've made a lot of bad baseball decisions over the years. They've had plenty of top draft picks (they lost 100 games 4 out of 5 years at one point) and yet it took them a long time to finally build up one of the best farm systems in the league and they are still only a .500 team at this point.

 

The Twin's undoing in recent years are a combination of payroll constraints during the Metrodome era and some decidedly bad trades. But they've got more payroll flexibility now and the scouting and development system are strong. I think they can consistently compete for years without getting a series of top ten picks.

[ScottyB]

Next year is a deep draft and as much as I'd like to add a frontline pitcher, I'd love to add a shortstop (Gatewood, Turner or Gordon) - that would set us up with an unbelievable lineup. Turner has plus-plus speed, Gordon has the bloodline and Gatewood has been compared to Jeter, Tulowitski and A-Rod, lots of power and leadership. Twins will end up somewhere in the top 10 picks no matter how well they do, no need to intentionally tank.

[MichiganTwins]

Red Bull has a good point. If you look at Washington, they were bad for a long time, until Bryce Harper and Strasburg came up along with their other talent progressing (Detweiler, Zimmerman, Clippard). Then they made a splash with Werth (didn't work out well) and Span. Now they are where they are.

 

Pirates are the perfect example of this. They were bad for a long time, then they hit the jackpot with McCutchen, Locke, Alvarez, Neil Walker, Marte, and Grilli. They made a small (lucky) splash with Liriano and Burnett to get where they are today.

 

Twins can't and won't compete on major FAs and the only way to compete long-term is drafting well, and moving guys through the system successfully. Twins have an opportunity here to capitalize on the youth movement coming up (Buxton, Sano, Rosario, Arcia, Pinto, Hicks, Polanco, Berrios, Meyer, May, Vargas, Kepler) and keep compiling youngsters that can enhance the major league roster. But, we need to get rid of the older, expensive guys (Morneau, Willingham, Carroll, Doumit, Pelfrey, Correia). Hell, I'm all for trading Mauer if you can get a king's ransom. I mean, trading Mauer's contract could actually get us 2-3 good starting pitchers in free agency...it's sad to realize that fact...

 

I do not think you understand how things really work. One, the Twins have extra money they are choosing not to spend at the moment. Also, in order to compete you need some veterans on our team. You cannot have an abundance of young guys. You need a mix. Not that long ago, Terry Ryan was on Espn 1500 and said that you can only really have couple of rookies come up at one time because a team full of young rookies is not going to get it done.

[diehardtwinsfan]

.\

 

Also, the worse the Twins do this year, the worse they are likely to be next year. I'd like to see Dozier cement himself as a solid major league infielder. I'd like to see Hicks continue his turnaround and look like a probable breakout next year. I'd like to see Gibson pitch like a #2 starter on a good team. I'd like to see Morneau get his power stroke back whether or not he ends up back in Minnesota next year. If these things happen the Twins will be better overall this year, but I'll also feel a lot more optimistic about next year.

 

 

Not sure I can agree with this premise. Over the next two years, the Twins will be replacing their current roster with their next wave. I don't htink you can say that just because they do bad this year, they will do bad next year. The year the Twins drafted Mauer, they were in first place at the time of the draft... picking 1 overall.

 

All of the things you want to see happening, can still happen with them losing games. I'd go as far to say that some of these lumps they are taking will actually help long term. Gibson clearly has learning to do. That isn't bad, but he's taking his lumps. Seeing Plouffe, Parmelee, Hicks, and Dozier all establish themselves as regulars can all happen while the team loses games. That's especially true of the losses are coming at the likes of that awful rotation and a few mid season trades.

[Dman]

I'm with you. In fact, if the Twins did end up in a position to draft Carlos Rodon, the organization from the very top to the very bottom would probably be completely overhauled. Some readers might love that idea; personally, I wouldn't. Someone is (or more likely may people are) responsible for a farm system that ranks near the top of all of baseball. It would be nice if those not-talked-about people got to see the fruits of their labor. And a new GM likely means a complete overhaul of the scouting staff.

 

Although a good case could be made to get rid of the GM and HC after another terrible losing season I don't see that happening. The Pohlad's are going to give TR and RG every chance to see this thing through. The farm system is there and TR's low budget philosophy is very in tune with the Pohlad's so I don't see them changing even if the Twins are the worst in the league this year.

 

It is not like TR is incompetent or made costly mistakes in evaluating talent. The one white lie told was that this team had a chance this year to be good. Although there is always a chance that might be true, he had to know that was a stretch. But what could he say? He couldn't say don;t come and watch any games because this team is in rebuilding mode.

 

TR does have to figure this pitching thing out soon though or his window of opportunity is going to shrink.

 

Mark my words he won't be fired even if the Twins are dead last and I think he is the right guy to turn this team around. Once he gets this team there he better start to figure out Free Agency and Pohlad better open his wallet or I am done with this team. There will be holes to fill and they better do it when the time comes.

[2wins87]

Of course it's not necessarily true that if the Twins do poorly this year they will do poorly next year, but it sure is a lot more likely. If someone has the time to check the correlation between the previous season's record and this season's record vs the previous season's farm system ranking and this season's record I'd be interested, but I doubt I'd be surprised.

 

By saying I'd like to see the Twins players establish themselves I mean that I'd actually like to see them perform better than they already have not just maybe show signs that they might be better players next year. And while that does not necessarily mean that the Twins will end up with a better record this year, it sure is a lot more likely.

[Smcginnity]

Although a good case could be made to get rid of the GM and HC after another terrible losing season I don't see that happening. The Pohlad's are going to give TR and RG every chance to see this thing through. The farm system is there and TR's low budget philosophy is very in tune with the Pohlad's so I don't see them changing even if the Twins are the worst in the league this year.

 

It is not like TR is incompetent or made costly mistakes in evaluating talent. The one white lie told was that this team had a chance this year to be good. Although there is always a chance that might be true, he had to know that was a stretch. But what could he say? He couldn't say don;t come and watch any games because this team is in rebuilding mode.

 

TR does have to figure this pitching thing out soon though or his window of opportunity is going to shrink.

 

Mark my words he won't be fired even if the Twins are dead last and I think he is the right guy to turn this team around. Once he gets this team there he better start to figure out Free Agency and Pohlad better open his wallet or I am done with this team. There will be holes to fill and they better do it when the time comes.

 

I have been wanting to get rid of Gardy for years. The guy has lost it. I think there needs to be a new spark of energy in the clubhouse. Doug Mientkiewiscz (sp) is the guy I would have hired as the head coach. He is young, energetic and from what I've heard, respected by the players.

[Siehbiscuit]

No team should ever intentionally tank in the MLB! Players are far to competitive and driven to succeed to do this, so it would be management putting overwhelmed players in this situation. Loading the lineup with AAA or even AA caliber players.

 

But, if the Twins moved Morneau, Willingham and let's say Perkins for a haul of prospects (cumulatively) and it gave Colabello, Parmalee and Tonkin a chance to see what they could do with full time at bats or as a ML closer, then I can tolerate the losing, because the end game is to make your team better in the long-term. To tank for a draft position is not a good enough excuse as the baseball draft is too much of a crapshoot (compared to NFL and NBA). We have seen that Plouffe and Dozier are improving wth regular at bats.

[Dman]

I have been wanting to get rid of Gardy for years. The guy has lost it. I think there needs to be a new spark of energy in the clubhouse. Doug Mientkiewiscz (sp) is the guy I would have hired as the head coach. He is young, energetic and from what I've heard, respected by the players.

 

It probably is time for Gardy to go but will the Twins do it? I just don't think there is enough animosity there for them to get rid of him. I think they think he has a bad team and will absolve him of responsibility but I could be and often am wrong. You are correct that they have guys who could step in there and it might be good for the team but will they do that?

 

A very good case could be made to get rid of him but you could just easily make a case that most of the losing wasn't his fault as the pitching he had just wasn't good at all. 12 years is a long time they are probably due for a change we shall see.

[zenser]

Rachel Phelps would love this topic!

 

There is still too much uncertainty in the draft to intentionally tank. I know scouting is getting better but those guys still have to develop.

[Beezer07]

Tanking in the NFL or NBA, where a top draft pick can immediately make an impact and is more likely to succeed at least has some semblance of sense to it. Tanking in the MLB in the hopes that you get a guy that might contribute 3 years from now, but it's much more likely that he's never that good? Not a smart idea.

[Dman]

Tanking in the NFL or NBA, where a top draft pick can immediately make an impact and is more likely to succeed at least has some semblance of sense to it. Tanking in the MLB in the hopes that you get a guy that might contribute 3 years from now, but it's much more likely that he's never that good? Not a smart idea.

 

I agree that a lot of top prospects do not pan out in baseball in the top 5 picks but alot of superstars do get picked early. The Twins did well with Number 1 pick Joe Mauer and appear like they will do well with Number 2 pick Buxton. Also they will draft high in round 2 which is like having a low Number 1 pick. As has been seen many times in baseball. Teams that lose badly typically turn things around and become strong teams for several years. I like our chances picking higher versus lower.

[ThePuck]

Not that long ago, Terry Ryan was on Espn 1500 and said that you can only really have couple of rookies come up at one time because a team full of young rookies is not going to get it done.

 

 

There's business reasons for that too. All hitting free agency at the same time. Ryan has mentioned that too. Can't bring a bunch up at the same time or it gets real expensive in 5, 6 years.