Minnesota Twins’ Oswaldo Arcia, Chris Parmelee Creating Dilemma for Management

[Shane Wahl]

Willingham being traded would help this out immensely. Wait on Morneau until the last possible moment at the deadline and then see . . .

[IdahoPilgrim]

Willingham being traded would help this out immensely. Wait on Morneau until the last possible moment at the deadline and then see . . .

 

Do you see much of a market for Willingham right now? I ask because not only is he under-performing last year, but he is under-performing the rest of his MLB career as well, and he is on the wrong side of the bell curve age-wise.

 

I do like his skill in blocking pitches with his body.

[mcrow]

Do you see much of a market for Willingham right now? I ask because not only is he under-performing last year, but he is under-performing the rest of his MLB career as well, and he is on the wrong side of the bell curve age-wise.

 

I do like his skill in blocking pitches with his body.

The way things have gone with Willingham and Morneau this year is probably Terry Ryan's worst nightmare. Willingham is having one of the worst seasons of his caeer thus greatly reduced production for the Twins and also making him worthless for trade. Morneau is playing well enough to be useful but not well enough to get much on the trade market.

[TheLeviathan]

In my opinion, this represents a legitimate step forward in his development. Also, given Parmelee's above average LD rate, I would expect his .279 BABIP to increase, which should improve his triple-slash line.

 

This was all excellent, thank you for pointing this out. I'm continually baffled by how down some people are on Parms.

[amjgt]

Willingham's contract (~4mil more in 2013 and 7mil in 2014) represents a far greater dollar amount than any possible increased ticket sales by trotting him out there 5 days a week.

 

My hope is that our projected payroll gets so low next year that upper management can't help but make an impact signing like Phil Hughes.

 

The problem with that is, signing Phil Hughes will cost us our first round pick (I assume).... unless we are in the top ten. We aren't in a place yet where we can start giving up 1st round picks.

 

Trading our veterans and playing our cheap youth accomplishes not only the reduction of next year's payroll, but also hopefully being able to retain our 1st round pick because we are in the bottom 10.

 

In conclusion: I would trade Willingham for just about anything, especially if the other team is picking up a large portion of next year's salary.

[mcrow]

This was all excellent, thank you for pointing this out. I'm continually baffled by how down some people are on Parms.

We have some pretty low standards around here if that is enough to make us happy.

 

This is a babystep forward for someone that should be taking full strides at this point.

 

Not that I don't want the guy to be good, I'd love nothing more than to have him turn out to be a good OF but I can't get excited about what we've seen so far.

[IdahoPilgrim]

We have some pretty low standards around here if that is enough to make us happy.

 

I think that goes with the territory for being a Twins fan the past couple of years - take whatever positive signs you can get.

 

I too would like to see him blossom, but I would be happy if he just turned out to be a decent bench player - somebody above AAAA level who can fill the gap created by injuries. Clubs that hope to make a playoff run someday need those players too.

[cmathewson]

We have some pretty low standards around here if that is enough to make us happy.

 

This is a babystep forward for someone that should be taking full strides at this point.

 

Not that I don't want the guy to be good, I'd love nothing more than to have him turn out to be a good OF but I can't get excited about what we've seen so far.

 

I wouldn't expect full strides from him. He's taken baby steps in his development from the start. I'm happy with progress. Teams can't be all stars. You need some grinders too.

[boylan]

I think the difference is Doumit is driving in runs. Not sure why or if it has to do with where they are in the lineup but that is the one advantage of playing Doumit.

 

RBI's are all about where you bat and Doumit is getting at bats higher in the order than Arcia or Parmelee. Someone will (undoubtedly) correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think Parmelee has an at-bat in the 3 spot this year.

 

Willingham trade value question someone else brought up is really an interesting one. Last year all the talk was that he had a team friendly contract, batting .270ish and would be worth a lot in trade. This year, he's under performing his career numbers and he's pretty obviously hurt. His trade value has cratered. I'm sure the Twins are hoping he gets it turned around before the trade deadline, and the sooner the better, so they can move him for value. I just checked and apparently his BA has dropped to .216 (!?!) but his career slash line is 266/351/477 and he should hit 25 HRs so he should have value - if he's not limping to the plate. He has a $1M salary step-up based on 525PA that he will surely earn unless he spends major time on the DL.

 

Honestly, I don't see a solution unless Willingham does a 180 real soon or the Twins change course on Doumit and I just don't see that happening.

[TheLeviathan]

We have some pretty low standards around here if that is enough to make us happy.

 

This is a babystep forward for someone that should be taking full strides at this point.

 

Not that I don't want the guy to be good, I'd love nothing more than to have him turn out to be a good OF but I can't get excited about what we've seen so far.

 

For a player that has not yet been given a true, throw-em-in-the-pool chance to see and adjust to major league pitching - I'll take it.

 

It's not having low standards to want to see more opportunities for a guy that is doing a lot of things well and just needs a chance to put it together. Maybe he never advances from where he is now, but there are things to like about his game to give him the full chance to see. He is a good defender (in RF now as well as 1B), patient at the plate, and who makes very good contact frequently.

 

I call that a recipe we should be giving it's full, 100% commitment. Not this half-hearted, we bench you at the first sign of anything, stuff.

[Shane Wahl]

The Twins needed to find a way to DL Willingham awhile ago because there is likely something wrong. I think he is still going to have value, because I can't imagine that this BA is going to stay so low. If that comes up, the rest pretty much looks in order, aside from the expected decline in homers.

 

The return is not going to be great. It might be good enough though. I already blogged about this.

[mcrow]

I wouldn't expect full strides from him. He's taken baby steps in his development from the start. I'm happy with progress. Teams can't be all stars. You need some grinders too.

That's well and good but that doesn't justify giving him more ABs. If Arcia is showing more potential and hitting better then he should get more ABs. If Doumit is comparable or a little better (as it looks) he should be getting ABs as well. So, unless Parm can make himself more valuable than the other two there is no justification for playing him more particularly when his defense is still iffy.

[cmathewson]

That's well and good but that doesn't justify giving him more ABs. If Arcia is showing more potential and hitting better then he should get more ABs. If Doumit is comparable or a little better (as it looks) he should be getting ABs as well. So, unless Parm can make himself more valuable than the other two there is no justification for playing him more particularly when his defense is still iffy.

 

This year is about development. We will need him to be more developed next year. He is not developing on the bench.

[mcrow]

RBI's are all about where you bat and Doumit is getting at bats higher in the order than Arcia or Parmelee. Someone will (undoubtedly) correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think Parmelee has an at-bat in the 3 spot this year.

 

Willingham trade value question someone else brought up is really an interesting one. Last year all the talk was that he had a team friendly contract, batting .270ish and would be worth a lot in trade. This year, he's under performing his career numbers and he's pretty obviously hurt. His trade value has cratered. I'm sure the Twins are hoping he gets it turned around before the trade deadline, and the sooner the better, so they can move him for value. I just checked and apparently his BA has dropped to .216 (!?!) but his career slash line is 266/351/477 and he should hit 25 HRs so he should have value - if he's not limping to the plate. He has a $1M salary step-up based on 525PA that he will surely earn unless he spends major time on the DL.

 

Honestly, I don't see a solution unless Willingham does a 180 real soon or the Twins change course on Doumit and I just don't see that happening.

 

Yes, that's why I mentioned the spot in the lineup. If you have better hitters around you, generally you'll see better pitches.

[mcrow]

This year is about development. We will need him to be more developed next year. He is not developing on the bench.

 

I agree it is a development year but I think the Twins think differently or they'd be playing Parmelee a lot more.

[matthew0211]

This year is about development.

You and I and everyone else here may think that, but the guy filling out the lineup card every day wants to win that day. Until there's a trade and/or until Gardy gets direction from TR otherwise, Parmelee's not going to get the opportunity to play every day, fair or not.

[boylan]

The Twins needed to find a way to DL Willingham awhile ago because there is likely something wrong. I think he is still going to have value, because I can't imagine that this BA is going to stay so low. If that comes up, the rest pretty much looks in order, aside from the expected decline in homers.

 

The return is not going to be great. It might be good enough though. I already blogged about this.

 

Agree. No disrespect to the player but this team is a better team without him.

[mcrow]

You and I and everyone else here may think that, but the guy filling out the lineup card every day wants to win that day. Until there's a trade and/or until Gardy gets direction from TR otherwise, Parmelee's not going to get the opportunity to play every day, fair or not.

 

Exactly. I think from Gardy's point of view he's paid to put the best team out there and he thinks that starting Parmelee in most cases isn't putting out the best lineup he can.

 

So, unless there is a directive from Terry Ryan or they trade someone Gardy is just going to keep putting out the best lineup.

[Mike Sixel]

I agree it is a development year but I think the Twins think differently or they'd be playing Parmelee a lot more.

 

I don't think it is clear the Twins are executing a rebuild strategy at all......unless they are playing these guys to trade them.

[howieramone1406390264]

I don't think it is clear the Twins are executing a rebuild strategy at all......unless they are playing these guys to trade them.

 

IMO the handling of Hicks, Arcia, and Pressly all show signs of rebuilding. It's not the Twins way to throw in the towel. At some level they're still trying to field a competitive team. They still have plenty of time to figure how the pieces fit for 2014, and now we get our first look at another piece in Gibson. I'm not saying I understand everything that's going on, but things look a lot better than a year ago.

[twinsnorth49]

I don't know.....there can't be a lot of walkup ticket action based on hammer and doumit, can there?

 

No, I just meant in context with the illusion of being competitive with them, that's all.

[mcrow]

I don't think it is clear the Twins are executing a rebuild strategy at all......unless they are playing these guys to trade them.

Well, they seem to be trying to do a little of both winning and rebuilding. Basically it looks like prospects are being brought up and given a chance to play (Arcia, Hicks, Thomas and now Gibson) the ones that succeed get playing time (Arica, Thomas and Hicks by default) the young players that have ahd a chance and not been successful get less (Parmelee & Plouffe).

 

It seems like in their hybrid approach young players get a chance to play and if they don't produce they get a reduced role. In a true rebuild all these guys would be playing a lot.

[twinsnorth49]

I agree it is a development year but I think the Twins think differently or they'd be playing Parmelee a lot more.

 

That's a major part of the problem.

[twinsnorth49]

Well, they seem to be trying to do a little of both winning and rebuilding. Basically it looks like prospects are being brought up and given a chance to play (Arcia, Hicks, Thomas and now Gibson) the ones that succeed get playing time (Arica, Thomas and Hicks by default) the young players that have ahd a chance and not been successful get less (Parmelee & Plouffe).

 

 

It seems like in their hybrid approach young players get a chance to play and if they don't produce they get a reduced role. In a true rebuild all these guys would be playing a lot.

 

Thomas is a prospect? On who's list? Hicks jumped AAA, I'd hardly call that proven success earning a starting spot on the major league roster, yet there he is and before he was injured was there day in and day out, why is Parmelee not afforded the same opportunity? Plouffe is the regular starting 3rd basemen, not sure what you mean there.

 

There is room on this roster for all the players named above (save Thomas), management just has to accept reality.

[mcrow]

Thomas is a prospect?

 

No, not really. I was just trying to point out that Hicks got the CF spot basically by default and Thomas was called up and doing pretty well so he's probably keeping that spot for a while. They probably won't be rushing Hicks back given what Clete has been doing. They'll give Hicks plenty of time to get some ABs in and get to 100% before he comes back up. However, had Thomas been a total disaster they'd have to rush Hicks back a little quicker even if he's not been all that impressive to this point.

 

 

Why is Parmelee not afforded the same opportunity? Plouffe is the regular starting 3rd basemen, not sure what you mean there.

 

Parm isn't getting the same chance because there are other corner OFs who are better on the roster. Hicks started pretty well everyday because there's not much depth at that spot on the roster.

 

What I meant about Plouffe is he had issues getting ABs at times last year which is where Parmelee is this year. Also, Plouffe is in front of Carroll and Escobar so not exactly great competition for the spot but at least Plouffe seems competent for the most part.

 

There is room on this roster for all the players named above (save Thomas), management just has to accept reality.

 

Agreed. That's the whole problem though, I think they are trying to be a rebuilding winning team.

[stringer bell]

The Twins, IMHO, are trying a hybrid approach. They have a number of over-30 vets who started the season as regulars and will be regulars until the trade deadline, such as Willingham, Doumit, Morneau along with Pelfrey and Correia in the rotation. They were hoping to fill several inside straights with vets like Doumit and Hammer having consecutive good years while the pitching veterans exceeded projections and their stars played like MVPs again. Of course, the odds are against the Twins in every aspect of this "bet" and they know it. The pitchers, with the exception of Correia, have been lousy, Doumit and the Hammer have reverted to their former levels of effectiveness and one of the two former MVPs is in the bottom third OPS for his position. The first wave of a better future is here with Arcia, Hicks, and Gibson. Sano, Rosario, and others are progressing and could be here before 2014 is over and several live arms are having decent seasons. Sell off the "bridge players" and Morneau and go with the youngsters.

 

BTW, another part of this process was hoping for development from the non-rookies--Plouffe, Dozier, Florimon, and Parmelee. So far that result is a mixed bag. Plouffe has been pretty good, Florimon has met and probably exceeded expectations, Dozier has had some moments lately and the jury is out on Parmelee.

[Willihammer]

Parmelee has started 49 of the Twins 72 games, or 68%. There are 6 players for the 4 spots Parmelee's eligible for. 7 if you include Mauer (I won't).

 

On a perfectly egalitarian team each of those guys would be sitting 1/3 of the time. Or, almost exactly as often as Parmelee has sat.

[howieramone1406390264]

Thomas is a prospect? On who's list? Hicks jumped AAA, I'd hardly call that proven success earning a starting spot on the major league roster, yet there he is and before he was injured was there day in and day out, why is Parmelee not afforded the same opportunity? Plouffe is the regular starting 3rd basemen, not sure what you mean there.

 

There is room on this roster for all the players named above (save Thomas), management just has to accept reality.

I'm not sure what reality management has to accept. There is no one way to rebuild, the entire situation is very fluid, particularly at the trade deadline. Ryan may get lucky, or the deadline maybe just another day at the office. Rebuilding is a multi-year affair. IMO it's very difficult to draw conclusions, player by player or decision by decision.

[Rosterman]

Well, Ryan Doumit convinced the powers-that-be that he needs to play everyday to stay fresh, whatever that means.

 

Justin Morneau is reminding me of the guy he replaced, Doug Mientkiewicz, someone who hit for average but no power. The sad thing is it wouldn't take much for Morneau to end the year like last...around .260-.270.

 

Willingham needs to play the outfield if you want ALL teams to consider him as a trade chip.

 

The Twins need to play Morneau and Willingham, now...they are tradable pieces. One or the other will be gone. I doubt the Twins would risk losing both right now.

 

The biggest question is: Trade Morneau and then worry about considering to resign him. Or make him an offer now. Or let him declare free agency and make a qualifying offer for another year of his bat.

 

Morneau is the clog, right now.

 

But if you also trade, say, Willingham...you lose power, but have a spot for Parmelee AND Arcia in the outfield.

 

Colabello, although a great story, will not surface as a regular at first and can be expected to provide backup for the next year, at most.

 

And what do we do with Hicks...let him wallow in the minors for July and August or until Clete Thomas comes back to earth?

[cmathewson]

Parmelee has started 49 of the Twins 72 games, or 68%. There are 6 players for the 4 spots Parmelee's eligible for. 7 if you include Mauer (I won't).

 

On a perfectly egalitarian team each of those guys would be sitting 1/3 of the time. Or, almost exactly as often as Parmelee has sat.

 

He has sat a lot more lately than he did early on. I'd be surprised if he's played in 1/3 of the team's games in the last month.