Minnesota Twins’ Oswaldo Arcia, Chris Parmelee Creating Dilemma for Management

[SoCalTwinsfan]

I looked at how well Arcia and Parmelee are playing of late and the dilemma of getting both playing time.

 

It's understandable to give Arcia more playing time, but it shouldn't be difficult to keep Parmelee in the lineup while giving one of Doumit, Morneau, Willingham, Mauer, and even Arcia a day off. With Morneau in the final year of his contract, the Twins need to figure out what they have with Parmelee, and they can't do that if he continues to sit on the bench.

 

You can read the rest of Minnesota Twins' Oswaldo Arcia, Chris Parmelee Creating Dilemma for Management at Yahoo! Sports.

 

Should Parmelee be sent down? Should the Twins trade someone like Morneau to make room for the young players?

[Badsmerf]

Morneau is making it hard to trade him. Playoff teams want guys that can hit HR's. So far this season, Morneau has not shown that is something he is capable of.

[IdahoPilgrim]

My question, and this is not meant to be snarky in any way, is how much more playing time do we need to give Parmelee to know what we have? He's had 500+ major league plate appearances now. He seems to be an average to slightly below-average major league hitter.

 

If we do need to give Parmelee more playing time, I'd like to see more of that at 1B and not just RF. If we're thinking of him as a possible replacement for Morneau, then that's where we should be test driving him. I understand the complications that raises with Justin and the desire to preserve his value as a trade chip, but with just over a month left before the trade deadline, how much can the needle be moved now anyway?

[Brock Beauchamp]

My question, and this is not meant to be snarky in any way, is how much more playing time do we need to give Parmelee to know what we have? He's had 500+ major league plate appearances now. He seems to be an average to slightly below-average major league hitter.

 

We might have a decent idea already if Parmelee received those 500 PAs in 1 to 1 1/2 seasons. Chris has received so little consistent playing time that it's hard to judge much of anything. Torii Hunter was a pretty bad hitter for nearly 1,000 MLB PAs (of course, his defense and position kept him on the field to work through those issues).

 

Anyway, Chris should get at least 250 more PAs this season and I think it's a mistake if he doesn't... At that point, we should have a pretty good idea of who he is as a hitter.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Morneau is making it hard to trade him. Playoff teams want guys that can hit HR's. So far this season, Morneau has not shown that is something he is capable of.

 

Justin's value is nearly zero at this point. A shame.

[mcrow]

I agree with Idaho, I think we know what we have in Parmelee. I don't think he'll ever be able to hit on the major league level and he's not that great in the field either. If we something in either aspect of his game maybe you give more time for the other areas to progress. However, right now, do we have any reason to believe he's going to develop as a hitter?

[Brock Beauchamp]

However, right now, do we have any reason to believe he's going to develop as a hitter?

 

There's no reason not to expect him to develop, either. He showed pretty significant improvement in the upper minors, adding power to his already good plate discipline. His overall MiLB slash line is decent, though not jaw-dropping (.820 OPS). Over the past 55 days, his OPS is decent (around .770 OPS).

 

People need to understand that not every player is Oswaldo Arcia. If you're going to field a competitive team, you need to show some patience with the Trevor Plouffes and Chris Parmelees of the world or you'll never field a rounded roster. You need those complementary players to win and a team like the Twins can't afford to go out and spend $5-8m per player at 3-4 positions on the field.

[Badsmerf]

As bad as Colabello was when he was up, I'd like to see both him and Parmelee get more AB's. In another month the playoff picture will start to develop and Morneau/Willingham should be traded. That opens up an everyday spot for Parmelee with Colabello receiving about as many AB's as Parmelee is getting now. That might not be perfect, but until Colabello shows some ability to hit MLB pitching he shouldn't be handed a full-time job. This is contradictory to how I feel with most prospects, but his circumstance is different than most.

[Mike Sixel]

Agree with the premise / conclusion....the manager should be able to find a way for Parmalee and Arcia to play 4 of 5 days or so.....the team should be playing mostly for the future at this point, imo.

[mcrow]

There's no reason not to expect him to develop, either. He showed pretty significant improvement in the upper minors, adding power to his already good plate discipline. His overall MiLB slash line is decent, though not jaw-dropping (.820 OPS). Over the past 55 days, his OPS is decent (around .770 OPS).

 

People need to understand that not every player is Oswaldo Arcia. If you're going to field a competitive team, you need to show some patience with the Trevor Plouffes and Chris Parmelees of the world or you'll never field a rounded roster. You need those complementary players to win and a team like the Twins can't afford to go out and spend $5-8m per player at 3-4 positions on the field.

 

Well, Parmelee has about the same number of ABs this year as he had last year and pretty similar stats. Maybe a slight improvement in stats so far this season but really nothing to get excited about. However, at this point I don't think there is anyone in the minors worth brining up in his place so they may as well let him play it out and see what happens.

 

Plouffe, I'm actually OK with as far as progress at the plate goes. Defense is still terrible.

[ThePuck]

Justin's value is nearly zero at this point. A shame.

 

We're still getting value from him though. He's hitting well with RISP and he's playing very good defense.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Well, Parmelee has about the same number of ABs this year as he had last year and pretty similar stats.

 

210 PAs scattered through half a season don't tell much of anything about a player.

 

They can't keep benching a guy and then say "well, he had his chance and failed". He never had a real chance. Play the guy for one freakin' month and see what happens. Giving him 15-20 PAs a week just jerks him around. Let him get into a routine and see if it bears fruit.

[stringer bell]

I don't think we, the fans, know what the Twins have in Parmelee and I don't think the Twins know for sure either. He seems to be streaky. He was very good in September, 2011 and was laying waste to AAA in Rochester last summer. At other times, it seems like he is too passive, always in pitcher's counts and striking out (many called) a ton. The one thing that Parmelee has proved this year is that he is a capable outfielder. The fact that he can play both first and right capably will give him more at-bats. TK and many others have said you don't really know about a hitter until they get to about 1000 plate appearances IIRC. Give him 300 more this year and I think a pretty good judgment could be made.

 

Colabello could be an option for this year after the deadline and for next year. He certainly has shown he can hit Triple A pitching. I have been calling for and predicting the trade of two of Morneau/Hammer/Doumit and trades of two of those guys would give Colabello a fair chance to hit major league pitching. Fair or not, he probably will not get an extended audition because of his age and his defensive ability.

[stringer bell]

210 PAs scattered through half a season don't tell much of anything about a player.

 

They can't keep benching a guy and then say "well, he had his chance and failed". He never had a real chance. Play the guy for one freakin' month and see what happens. Giving him 15-20 PAs a week just jerks him around. Let him get into a routine and see if it bears fruit.

Parmelee might have proven that at this stage of his career he has to play and isn't really a good bench option. I don't think that is a total knock on him and if he never attains a true everyday spot, he may adjust later and become a better bench option. Right now, though, it neither helps the team or Parm to have him play 2/3 times a week.

[mcrow]

210 PAs scattered through half a season don't tell much of anything about a player.

 

They can't keep benching a guy and then say "well, he had his chance and failed". He never had a real chance. Play the guy for one freakin' month and see what happens. Giving him 15-20 PAs a week just jerks him around. Let him get into a routine and see if it bears fruit.

 

I can agree with that. I don't care what level of baseball you have played but even when I played in High School I played better when I was the starter than when I wasn't. I assume for many players in the Majors it's the same. Though, the way things work in the league you sort have have to make the best of the time you get or you might not get that long stretch of playing time.

[stringer bell]

Well, Parmelee has about the same number of ABs this year as he had last year and pretty similar stats. Maybe a slight improvement in stats so far this season but really nothing to get excited about. However, at this point I don't think there is anyone in the minors worth brining up in his place so they may as well let him play it out and see what happens.

 

Plouffe, I'm actually OK with as far as progress at the plate goes. Defense is still terrible.

I checked Parm's numbers last night and they are eerily similar to 2012. As Brock and I have been saying, (we think) the jury is still out and regular play the rest of the year can and should tell us what Parmelee is and can be as a player. I am pretty happy with Plouffe's development this year (outside of the injuries). He is hitting better in every aspect except power and he is known to have power surges and while his defense isn't even average, I see improvement and the skills to be pretty good at the hot corner.

[mcrow]

I checked Parm's numbers last night and they are eerily similar to 2012. As Brock and I have been saying, (we think) the jury is still out and regular play the rest of the year can and should tell us what Parmelee is and can be as a player. I am pretty happy with Plouffe's development this year (outside of the injuries). He is hitting better in every aspect except power and he is known to have power surges and while his defense isn't even average, I see improvement and the skills to be pretty good at the hot corner.

 

Right, and that's what makes me doubt Parm's ability to develop. I understand that most players are more comfortable when they know they are the starter, it's less pressure and it's easier to get a rythm at the plate. It's a tough situation, do yo just say "Heck with it" and start him for most every game over the next month and see what happens no matter how bad it is or do you play Doumit and Arcia more because you're getting more out of them right now? Tough call right there. One side says they are a rebuilding team and we need to find out what Parm can do so we can move forward at that position, on the other side you want to win games and score runs.

[stringer bell]

We're still getting value from him though. He's hitting well with RISP and he's playing very good defense.

Yes, there is some value. He's OPSing .786 with runners on, .804 with RiSP and .854 with RiSP and two out. Good, but hardly earth shaking. The defense has been good, but if there's not substantial improvement over other options offensively, it is similar to using Jamey Carroll at second, short, and third--minimal at best improvement for today sacrificing development of possible long-term options.

[stringer bell]

Right, and that's what makes me doubt Parm's ability to develop. I understand that most players are more comfortable when they know they are the starter, it's less pressure and it's easier to get a rythm at the plate. It's a tough situation, do yo just say "Heck with it" and start him for most every game over the next month and see what happens no matter how bad it is or do you play Doumit and Arcia more because you're getting more out of them right now? Tough call right there. One side says they are a rebuilding team and we need to find out what Parm can do so we can move forward at that position, on the other side you want to win games and score runs.

If you are going on "what have you done for me lately?", you sit Hammer or Morneau. In the month of June, Willingham is OPSing .628 with one homer and Morneau is at .730 also with one homer. Parm's OPS in June is .795. The sensible thing is to rest all of Mauer, Morneau, Willingham, Doumit, and Arcia once a week and get Parmelee 5/6 starts per week. Certainly, there should be some "playing the hot hand" and resting guys with unfavorable matchups.

[mcrow]

If you are going on "what have you done for me lately?", you sit Hammer or Morneau. In the month of June, Willingham is OPSing .628 with one homer and Morneau is at .730 also with one homer. Parm's OPS in June is .795. The sensible thing is to rest all of Mauer, Morneau, Willingham, Doumit, and Arcia once a week and get Parmelee 5/6 starts per week. Certainly, there should be some "playing the hot hand" and resting guys with unfavorable matchups.

 

Sure, if we are using logic that's the way they should go but we all know that in baseball managers tend to give proven vets the benefit of the doubt. It is sort of like in boxing when they say you have to KO the champ. For a lesser player (on a career level) like Parm he'd probably have to out play those guys by good margin in order to get significant playing time.

 

I'm not saying that's the right approach but it seems to be the way it works.

[twinsnorth49]

If the club wants to keep the average fan pretending the team can stay in contention, you play Doumit and Hammer, it will sell a few tickets and maintain curious interest.

 

If they are serious about moving forward they give Parmelee as many PA's as they can through the rest of this year so they are more certain of what might be required when they might actually be competitive in a couple to few years.

 

This will best be accomplished by trading both Doumit and Hammer and quite possibly Morneau, although the return isn't looking too promising right now.

 

They have the chance to make this season a useful one, they've shown the willingness with Arcia, they were a bit late to the party on Gibson, but he's here, and lord knows they've given enough rope to Hicks, they should do the same with Parmelee in a consistent manner, not this stop, start nonsense we've been seeing the last two years.

[Danchat]

This will best be accomplished by trading both Doumit and Hammer and quite possibly Morneau, although the return isn't looking too promising right now.

I'm all for trading these guys, but Morneau and Hammer have almost no value right now. Both are at career lows. Doumit, maybe we could get something. Parmelee needs to get consistent ABs though. That's a must, along with the other young ones.

[diehardtwinsfan]

1) Parmelee had the same PT issues in 2012. This was one of the reasons a few of us really wanted to see him play every day in 2013. We figured we would see what we had.

2) Parmelee hasn't played every day in 2013. Arcia got called up quick and Parmelee ended up being the odd man out. I like Oswaldo, but he shouldn't be up at the expense of Parmelee.. He shouldn't have been called up at all when Hicks went down.

3) Like others said, this team needs to figure out what they have in him, and the won't do it playing him for a couple of weeks and then benching him. This, to me at least is a Gardy problem... and it's a Ryan problem in that he's allowed it to happen.

[cmathewson]

210 PAs scattered through half a season don't tell much of anything about a player.

 

They can't keep benching a guy and then say "well, he had his chance and failed". He never had a real chance. Play the guy for one freakin' month and see what happens. Giving him 15-20 PAs a week just jerks him around. Let him get into a routine and see if it bears fruit.

 

This. I wish Willingham had some trade value. We could move Arcia to left and give Parmelee the whole second half to get into a rhythm. This is exactly why Gardy is not a good manager to develop guys like Parmelee, because slumps happen and Gardy tends to bench guys when they slump if he has other options. But players (and young players in particular) need to play through slumps. Taking a day off to do extra work with Bruno in the cage is one thing. But weeks at a time as a pinch hitter do not help young players develop. Gardy does this with most of the young guys who are not budding stars (like Arcia).

 

Parmelee's kind of a left-handed version of Cuddyer. Cuddyer struggled through inconsistent playing time for years until he finally broke out of Gardy's dog house. We can only wonder what might have been if he had been allowed to develop normally. I'd hate to see the same thing happen to Parm.

[twinsnorth49]

1) Parmelee had the same PT issues in 2012. This was one of the reasons a few of us really wanted to see him play every day in 2013. We figured we would see what we had.

2) Parmelee hasn't played every day in 2013. Arcia got called up quick and Parmelee ended up being the odd man out. I like Oswaldo, but he shouldn't be up at the expense of Parmelee.. He shouldn't have been called up at all when Hicks went down.

3) Like others said, this team needs to figure out what they have in him, and the won't do it playing him for a couple of weeks and then benching him. This, to me at least is a Gardy problem... and it's a Ryan problem in that he's allowed it to happen.

Arcia is not the issue with Parmelee's playing time, they both should be playing regularly soon.

[Riverbrian]

I continue to contend that all can play. You just have to sit Willingham, Morneau or Doumit, (Even Arcia and Mauer on occasion) every 5th day or so.

 

In my opinion... It won't kill Willingham, Morneau, Doumit or the team to do so.

 

The roster is 25... Play em all.

[boylan]

Arcia is not the issue with Parmelee's playing time, they both should be playing regularly soon.

 

Sort of true. Thing about Arcia is that he is hitting - he's the Twins best hitting OF at the moment. His hitting is also clearly improving. Gardy obviously loves his bat and wants him in the line-up essentially every day.

 

Ignoring Arcia for the moment and ignoring CF altogether because it's unrelated, bigger issue is that they have too many every day corner outfielders. Guys who need to play everyday to get their heads in the game and their bat working. Hammer, Doumit and Parmelee. They are all batting .230ish. Hammer's obviously hurt and isn't making any adjustments at the plate - must not be on speaking terms with Brunansky if you ask me.

 

I don't get why Doumit is getting so many at-bats at the expense of Parmelee - particularly against RHP but whatever.

 

In my view Twins really want to get Willingham cooking so they can trade him and free up playing time for the younger players but that's just not working out at the moment.

 

I don't see the Twins trading Doumit as they just signed him to an extension. Not really their MO to sign a journeyman player like that and then trade him.

[mcrow]

Sort of true. Thing about Arcia is that he is hitting - he's the Twins best hitting OF at the moment. His hitting is also clearly improving. Gardy obviously loves his bat and wants him in the line-up essentially every day.

 

Ignoring Arcia for the moment and ignoring CF altogether because it's unrelated, bigger issue is that they have too many every day corner outfielders. Guys who need to play everyday to get their heads in the game and their bat working. Hammer, Doumit and Parmelee. They are all batting .230ish. Hammer's obviously hurt and isn't making any adjustments at the plate - must not be on speaking terms with Brunansky if you ask me.

 

I don't get why Doumit is getting so many at-bats at the expense of Parmelee - particularly against RHP but whatever.

 

In my view Twins really want to get Willingham cooking so they can trade him and free up playing time for the younger players but that's just not working out at the moment.

 

I don't see the Twins trading Doumit as they just signed him to an extension. Not really their MO to sign a journeyman player like that and then trade him.

 

I think the difference is Doumit is driving in runs. Not sure why or if it has to do with where they are in the lineup but that is the one advantage of playing Doumit.

[Boone]

I checked Parm's numbers last night and they are eerily similar to 2012. As Brock and I have been saying, (we think) the jury is still out and regular play the rest of the year can and should tell us what Parmelee is and can be as a player. I am pretty happy with Plouffe's development this year (outside of the injuries). He is hitting better in every aspect except power and he is known to have power surges and while his defense isn't even average, I see improvement and the skills to be pretty good at the hot corner.

 

Although Parmelee's triple slash line is very similar to last year, if you look closer he has taken a step forward in his development: he is walking more, striking out less, hitting more line drives, and hitting fewer infield fly balls:

 

2012: 6.2%BB 24.8%K .25BB/K 18.4%LD 6.5% infield fly ball

2013: 9.0%BB 22.6%K .4BB/K 22.5%LD 3.6% infield fly ball

 

In my opinion, this represents a legitimate step forward in his development. Also, given Parmelee's above average LD rate, I would expect his .279 BABIP to increase, which should improve his triple-slash line.

[Mike Sixel]

If the club wants to keep the average fan pretending the team can stay in contention, you play Doumit and Hammer, it will sell a few tickets and maintain curious interest.

 

If they are serious about moving forward they give Parmelee as many PA's as they can through the rest of this year so they are more certain of what might be required when they might actually be competitive in a couple to few years.

 

This will best be accomplished by trading both Doumit and Hammer and quite possibly Morneau, although the return isn't looking too promising right now.

 

They have the chance to make this season a useful one, they've shown the willingness with Arcia, they were a bit late to the party on Gibson, but he's here, and lord knows they've given enough rope to Hicks, they should do the same with Parmelee in a consistent manner, not this stop, start nonsense we've been seeing the last two years.

 

I don't know.....there can't be a lot of walkup ticket action based on hammer and doumit, can there?