Article: Twins MLB Draft Profile: Jonathan Gray, RHP

[Willihammer]

Stimulants do improve athletic performance; there is ample evidence for this. Back when I was a swimmer (Pac-10 college), we were routinely drug tested for stimulants, including methylphenidate and dextroamphetamine. Regardless of prescription, they are illegal in top-level swimming. Most of the guys I swam with (and I) just got all hopped up on coffee instead.

Can I ask specifically what benefit do you get from stimulants in swimming?

[gil4]

So all those MLB players like to get high? It isn't about studies, it is about belief, and for more than 6 decades at least, MLB players and others have believed that stimulants help them. heck, there are studies showing steroids don't help all that much, but people still took them.

 

Then when MLB started testing for steroids the HR totals went way down, which was completely unexpected, given that studies showed they don't help much.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong but there aren't any studies out there linking stimulants to improved play athletically, is there? Instead, what this says to me on its face is that the kid likes to get high.

 

I don't know if there have been studies done or not. My point above is that even if there have been studies done and they show little or no correlation, there is reason to be skeptical of the studies.

[howieramone1406390264]

A college student tested positive for Adderall? No ****.

 

Anyway, if he falls to 4 and the Twins do not take him, I am going to go ballistic. Other than him at that spot (and assuming Stewart would be gone), I like Shipley or Ball.

Assuming they use due diligence, I'll consider it another smart move by the Twins.

[Mike Sixel]

I should have just left that part off.......the point is, athletes take steroids, HGH, stimulaants, and lots of other drugs because they think they work, no matter what any study does or does not say. That's not the only reason, but it's a big, big, big reason. Or maybe they are all just lying. Hard to say.

 

*edited for speeeeling.

**twice.....sigh

[TheLeviathan]

I should have just left that part off.......the point is, athletes take steroids, HGH, stimulaants, and lots of other drugs because they think they work, no matter what any study does or does not stay. That's not the only reason, but it's a big, big, big reason. Or maybe they are all just lying. Hard to say.

 

*edited for speeeeling.

 

Pfft all thrill seeking drug addicts. Especially this 18 year old kid with a onetime mistake. Lets comp him to crack heads and meth heads....because that makes sense.

[Willihammer]

You realize by this same ridiculous logic one could call coffee drinkers "meth heads"?

 

Is this some kind of hilarious attempt at the utter destruction of your own credibility? If so, you sir are doing a mighty fine job. With each subsequent post in your "all athletes are meth addicts" rant, I know I am taking you less seriously.

 

In all seriousness, we are talking about some kid and his future and you are taking the discovery of a one time use of a prescribed stimulant and positing him a drug addict. That's just.....wow.

 

Wrong on all counts except possibly the destruction of my own credibility, which I'd hoped to achieve a long time ago.

 

1. We're talking about Amphetamine, not caffeine. I'd agree its entirely possible to abuse caffeine but its just not as potent as speed and obviously isn't a schedule 2 substance.

 

2. Gray wasn't prescribed the Adderall, as I understand it. Not that I believe it matters for most people.

 

For whatever reason, certain drugs and cultures get tied up together. There are a lot of ballplayers who chew tobacco, for example. I suspect for the majority of them, they do it out of sheer addiction and not for any benefit. Maybe they do it because if they try to stop, they get thrown into a funk like when Hamilton tried to stop last October. Would speed use be any different?

 

And I"ll ask the same thing here that I asked charger. What exactly are the supposed benefits of stimulant use to pitching, or hitting, or fielding?

[Red Bull]

Can I ask specifically what benefit do you get from stimulants in swimming?

 

You dont gain an advantage for a specific sport. If you take enough you get a ton of energy and drive aswell as Euphoria. You feel like you could run 10 miles without breaking a sweat, its gives you kind of an invincible feeling. A good comparison would be its like you have a ton of adrenaline that you can control and use it to your advantage. And on top of all the energy and drive is the Euphoria. You have a wave of pleasure running through your body.

[TheLeviathan]

1. We're talking about Amphetamine, not caffeine. I'd agree its entirely possible to abuse caffeine but its just not as potent as speed and obviously isn't a schedule 2 substance.

 

The point is that if you want to lump a drug with the more sinister and powerful drugs in the same family, you could do that to make coffee drinkers into drug addicts. Just like caffeine isn't as potent as speed, adderall isn't crack. It was a stupid comparison.

 

And I"ll ask the same thing here that I asked charger. What exactly are the supposed benefits of stimulant use to pitching, or hitting, or fielding?

 

Maybe the extra focus and concentration allows them to recall past at-bats. Or zero in on their pitching target. Or focus better on the seams/spin of a baseball traveling 90mph. Or maybe to tune-out the crowd.

 

By all means, organize a study. But just because one hasn't been done to confirm the effects doesn't mean labeling people drug addicts based on a flimsy idea of "thrill seeking" and even flimsier lumping of all drugs with their most powerful cousins is a cogent argument.

 

The simplest explanation is usually the right one - in this case - because baseball players believes it makes them better baseball players. Your fallacy-ridden mess of an argument is little more than tinfoil hat ridiculousness.

[Willihammer]

You dont gain an advantage for a specific sport. If you take enough you get a ton of energy and drive aswell as Euphoria. You feel like you could run 10 miles without breaking a sweat, its gives you kind of an invincible feeling. A good comparison would be its like you have a ton of adrenaline that you can control and use it to your advantage. And on top of all the energy and drive is the Euphoria. You have a wave of pleasure running through your body.

 

You get high, in other words.

[Ncgo4]

All of this addict talk is silly without more evidence. What isn't silly are reports that Mr. Gray from time to time has not been very committed to his training. It is also, apparently true, that he has not done a very good job of controlling his weight. Both of these are red flags. In light of these issues an instance of using a prescription stimulant takes on added importance. Particularly so, if it was not his prescription. Drafted ball players are all risks, drafting a pitcher with several issues is too high a risk for the 4th pick.

[nicksaviking]

Assuming they use due diligence, I'll consider it another smart move by the Twins.

 

Using that logic, I assume you consider every move by the Twins smart?

[70charger]

Can I ask specifically what benefit do you get from stimulants in swimming?

 

Here's an article: The effect of amphetamines on selected ... [Med Sci Sports Exerc. 1980] - PubMed - NCBI

Here's one on caffeine: http://www.acsm.org/docs/current-comments/caffeineandexercise.pdf

 

It appears as though muscular endurance and strength are increased due to the stimulant's ability to mask fatigue.

 

Of course, like I said before, I think swimming is a fundamentally different sport than baseball, and I'm not exactly sure how stimulants would help a pitcher.

[howieramone1406390264]

Using that logic, I assume you consider every move by the Twins smart?

What's your point?