Article: For Parmelee, the Clock is Ticking

[Nick Nelson]

You can view the page at http://twinsdaily.com/content.php?r=1794-For-Parmelee-the-Clock-is-Ticking

[TheLeviathan]

Just to throw this out there, because I don't think you intended to dog his defense, but I've been more than a bit surprised by how good he's been in the OF.

 

He has to hit a whole heckuva lot better to warrant a corner OF spot, but overall I don't think he needs his bat to counter any negative defensive value. It just needs to be better because of where he plays.

[Seth Stohs]

It's one of those things, like Kubel, where he catches everything he gets to. He has a good, accurate arm. He makes the routine plays. He just doesn't have a ton of range, so he's advanced defensive stats likely won't look terribly impressive.

 

Again, I think Parmelee is one of several guys that they should go with throughout the year. Let him work into and out of slumps, see what he can do.

[Shane Wahl]

Here's how the Twins organization does things:

 

Promote prospects pretty slowly in the bottom leagues, even to have them repeat seasons at the same level. THEN when they show promise at AA, give them a September call-up or even a next season ST workout geared for the big leagues. What about moving them quickly to Fort Myers and then quickly to Rochester? Chris Parmelee (and Joe Benson . . . oops, and Brian Dozier) needed a full season of AAA ball and it should have started in August of 2011. Full stop.

[Shane Wahl]

Parmelee might bat 6th in the Rochester lineup given how that manager does things, by the way.

[gunnarthor]

Here's how the Twins organization does things:

 

Promote prospects pretty slowly in the bottom leagues, even to have them repeat seasons at the same level. THEN when they show promise at AA, give them a September call-up or even a next season ST workout geared for the big leagues. What about moving them quickly to Fort Myers and then quickly to Rochester? Chris Parmelee (and Joe Benson . . . oops, and Brian Dozier) needed a full season of AAA ball and it should have started in August of 2011. Full stop.

 

Well, there seems to be some selective memory going on there. All 3 of the guys you named happened to be pretty old for their levels b/c they struggled. Guys like Morneau and Kubel got plenty of time at AAA but forced their way to AAA while still pretty young. Arcia was promoted fairly quickly, as was Mauer. Plouffe spent forever in AAA. Posters were irate that Dozier started last year at AAA when he was already 25.

 

And it's a bit silly to blame the Twins on Parm. He earned a sept call up from AA. The following year he spent six weeks in the majors before spending most of the year in AAA. Hard to say that month ruined his development.

[stringer bell]

It's one of those things, like Kubel, where he catches everything he gets to. He has a good, accurate arm. He makes the routine plays. He just doesn't have a ton of range, so he's advanced defensive stats likely won't look terribly impressive.

 

Again, I think Parmelee is one of several guys that they should go with throughout the year. Let him work into and out of slumps, see what he can do.

I agree that the Twins need to give Parmelee an extended trial. With Morneau in the last year of his deal, the team needs to know if he can hit enough to be an everyday player at first or in right. I think Parmelee has shown enough defensively that he can be trusted in right field. Besides catching what he gets to, he played the caroms in the corners and off the wall well. He charged hits well and made mostly very good throws. He made a catch that I saw live in spring training that rivals either of Hicks' HR robberies. I think that having someone like Parmelee who could shuttle between first and right would be nice if the club wants to use their superstar catcher more at first. In the end, though, it all will depend on how much he hits.

[TheLeviathan]

It's one of those things, like Kubel, where he catches everything he gets to. He has a good, accurate arm. He makes the routine plays. He just doesn't have a ton of range, so he's advanced defensive stats likely won't look terribly impressive.

 

Again, I think Parmelee is one of several guys that they should go with throughout the year. Let him work into and out of slumps, see what he can do.

 

i agree about what to do with him, but I think comping his D to Kubel is way underselling him.

[Oldgoat_MN]

Agree with Rick. Parmelee has to show something, and soon.

I wonder if there is something that going to AAA would give him? How significant is more playing time? What's the point if he's not facing MLB pitching?

 

Really don't know what to do with him. I've been impressed with his D for a big guy; no doubt he works hard.

But yeah, can't wait very much longer through slash lines like he's putting up.

[Mike Sixel]

Apparently the manager does not agree, since Doumit started in the OF, and not Parmelee. How hard is this, exactly, to have a strategy to rebuild and grow from within? Apparenlty, really, really hard.

[ScottyB]

Chris Parmelee is not a long term starter. He still has the potential to be a nice piece for a contending team. I've always said he is the equivalent of Randy Bush - a guy who could hit 10-15 homers, drive in 50-60 runs and play a little bit of RF, a little 1B, DH and be a nice pinch hitting option. It'll take some seasoning, but with the group coming up, that will be his role. Offer Justin a two-year deal, and if he turns it down take the draft choice. Parms is not the solution as starting 1B, now or in the future.

[Gernzy]

They need to make a decision on Parmelee soon. I know the original plan was to have him take over at first base. With his current numbers there is no way they can trade Morneau and replace him with Parmelee. So now it seems that we really need to resign Morneau since there is no other good option available at 1B.

[stringer bell]

Interleague play has limited Parmelee's chances since the Twins have seen fit to put Doumit in RF. That won't be an issue when they return home, of course. They also started Colabello in RF for one game, so another chance for Chris was lost. Also, with Herrmann replacing Wilkin Ramirez, Gardy has seen fit to start Doumit in RF, knowing he has a third catcher available. It's very possible that Herrmann will be gone, if not today by the weekend with the near-certain return of Trevor Plouffe and the likely return of Ramirez. The Twins play two more series at NL parks, against the Nat on June 7-9 and against the Marlins on June 25-26. Parmelee would be advised to swinging better by then.

[stringer bell]

Chris Parmelee is not a long term starter. He still has the potential to be a nice piece for a contending team. I've always said he is the equivalent of Randy Bush - a guy who could hit 10-15 homers, drive in 50-60 runs and play a little bit of RF, a little 1B, DH and be a nice pinch hitting option. It'll take some seasoning, but with the group coming up, that will be his role. Offer Justin a two-year deal, and if he turns it down take the draft choice. Parms is not the solution as starting 1B, now or in the future.

Maybe you are right, but the Twins aren't a contending team now, and probably won't be next year. I certainly think that the team needs to give him his at-bats and see what happens. We know that he got white-hot hitting in Rochester (not unlike Plouffe's streak in the majors last June) and a solid great month could propel his numbers into the satisfactory range. In some respects, this is the perfect laboratory to find out. He and his team are playing major league baseball and facing MLB talent, but the pressure of a pennant race is absent. There is much to be gained and little to lose by being patient and seeing how it pans out--maybe it's Randy Bush, maybe it is more, perhaps it is much less. Offering Morneau an extension is throwing good money after bad IMHO (really fodder for another thread). If Parmelee fails, find somebody else. There are lots of guys out there who could fill the bill for Morneau at a fraction of the salary.

[Crackin' Wax]

They need to make a decision on Parmelee soon. I know the original plan was to have him take over at first base. With his current numbers there is no way they can trade Morneau and replace him with Parmelee. So now it seems that we really need to resign Morneau since there is no other good option available at 1B.

 

How would Plouffe be at 1B? Ya know... once the hitting side of his brain clicks on again, that is.

[Nick Nelson]

Just to throw this out there, because I don't think you intended to dog his defense, but I've been more than a bit surprised by how good he's been in the OF.

I would agree that he's been better than expected. He looks like an average defensive right fielder, which is impressive for a first baseman playing the outfield. But by no means is he a defensive asset.

 

Again, I think Parmelee is one of several guys that they should go with throughout the year. Let him work into and out of slumps, see what he can do.

Still waiting for him to work out of the slump he's been in for the past two seasons...

 

Do you think they should keep him around all year even if he continues to play only ~50% of the time? I don't see that as being positive for his development.

 

Apparently the manager does not agree, since Doumit started in the OF, and not Parmelee. How hard is this, exactly, to have a strategy to rebuild and grow from within? Apparenlty, really, really hard.

As I recall, Doumit hit a pretty crucial two-run homer in the game, his fourth this month. Parmelee, meanwhile, is hitting .206 in May. At the end of the day, Gardenhire is interested in trying to win games and I can't blame him for that.

[Mike Sixel]

Doumit and Parmelee are almost identical in hitting WAR measures. Their numbers are eerily similar. Given that the team is not going to win much this year, and Doumit is old and not part of the future, Parmelee should be playing, imo. If the strategy is to rebuild, then commit to the strategy, up and down the food chain of command. Partly commiting to a strategy is a really, really, bad idea.

[TheLeviathan]

I would agree that he's been better than expected. He looks like an average defensive right fielder, which is impressive for a first baseman playing the outfield. But by no means is he a defensive asset.

 

Agreed, but I think average was beyond what most of us felt like he was capable of coming into the season. At times (flashes obviously) I've been downright impressed. (That near homerun rob he pulled the other day. He seems to move really well to his right too)

 

I just think some people are still slotting him like Seth did in the Kubel range and he is better than that.

[Nick Nelson]

I just think some people are still slotting him like Seth did in the Kubel range and he is better than that.

 

I think his point was that, like Kubel, Parmelee lacks footspeed but makes up for it with good routes and defensive fundamentals.

 

I should follow up my previous question about whether it's wise to keep Parmelee up as a part-time player with the flip side of the argument: if they don't option him all year and his play doesn't drastically improve, they'll have the chance to start him back in Triple-A next season. He'd be a nice guy to have around as insurance behind Arcia et al.

[DAM DC Twins Fans]

Doumit and Parmelee are almost identical in hitting WAR measures. Their numbers are eerily similar. Given that the team is not going to win much this year, and Doumit is old and not part of the future, Parmelee should be playing, imo. If the strategy is to rebuild, then commit to the strategy, up and down the food chain of command. Partly commiting to a strategy is a really, really, bad idea.

 

I agree play Parmelee now regularly (at least till the AS Break) lets see if he can get average up. Play him some at 1B to see if he can move back there. Long-term 1B may be Sano anyway. We need to know if Parms will be part of a contending team (hopefully next year).

[adjacent]

One of the things that Tom Kelly was saying while he was in the booth last week, was that Parmelee was having trouble catching up to fastballs. That is kind of a red flag, isn't it? I mean, young hitters can learn with time to lay off nasty braking balls, but if your bat is too slow to catch up to fastballs... Maybe somebody that knows more baseball than me can correct me here.

[diehardtwinsfan]

Parmelee's time is running out while his manager puts him on the bench way too often. This kid needs to play every day, and he shouldn't be loosing PT to the likes of Doumit or Ramirez.

I don't know if he's the future or not, but we are never going to find out when he doesn't get an extended trial. He started out pretty good having an .800 OPS in the first couple weeks. He hit a slump and got replaced by Arcia. Kind of silly.

 

We came into the season wondering if Parmelee was a component of the future. At his point, we are still wondering. Let the kid play every day between now and October.

[stringer bell]

One of the things that Tom Kelly was saying while he was in the booth last week, was that Parmelee was having trouble catching up to fastballs. That is kind of a red flag, isn't it? I mean, young hitters can learn with time to lay off nasty braking balls, but if your bat is too slow to catch up to fastballs... Maybe somebody that knows more baseball than me can correct me here.

I think a lot of us consciously or unconsciously said "uh-oh" when Kelly made that comment. It could be as simple and innocuous as his swing getting long while in a slump, same as Mauer, Morneau, Willingham etc. or it could be a sign that he's just a AAAA hitter.

[Shane Wahl]

Well, there seems to be some selective memory going on there. All 3 of the guys you named happened to be pretty old for their levels b/c they struggled. Guys like Morneau and Kubel got plenty of time at AAA but forced their way to AAA while still pretty young. Arcia was promoted fairly quickly, as was Mauer. Plouffe spent forever in AAA. Posters were irate that Dozier started last year at AAA when he was already 25.

 

And it's a bit silly to blame the Twins on Parm. He earned a sept call up from AA. The following year he spent six weeks in the majors before spending most of the year in AAA. Hard to say that month ruined his development.

 

You mention Mauer and Arcia and I am the one with "selective" memory? Those are outliers.

 

With regard to Parmelee, it doesn't matter what age he was. He still needed time in AAA before skipping a level to join the Twins, especially to join and be a bench player. I absolutely think that if they had handled things differently last year, it would have been beneficial for him. Same kind of thing with Dozier.

 

Benson should have spent the last 1/3 of 2011 in Rochester. He had done all he could to prove he could handle AA pitching.

 

And then there's Hicks. Hopefully Pinto isn't next.

[ashbury]

or it could be a sign that he's just a AAAA hitter.

 

My idea of a AAAA hitter is someone who makes his living feasting on fastballs in the strike zone, which become increasingly rare as you move up. Not that he couldn't have hit his ceiling, but this sign seems the opposite and more unusual.

[jmlease1]

I'm pretty disappointed in Parmelee so far, but I'd like to see the Twins keep him up with the big club and give him a little more rope to figure things out up here. Right now I don't see him as having much to prove down in AAA, and I like the idea of keeping his option available for next season with what is coming up in the Twins system.

 

There's a real possibility that Parmelee is a 4A player, but this season is the right time to figure it out, since the team is not going to be contending. I'd like Parmelee to have more time with Brunansky to try and iron out his swing and approach and see if he can be a guy who can add value to this team in the next few years.

 

But if he hasn't figured it out before Sept, that's going to be a telling sign. If Sept rolls around and he starts knocking around pitching again (after the call-ups, after teams seasons are done, etc.) then we might know who he really is as a player.

[ashbury]

I've always said he is the equivalent of Randy Bush

 

Physically they aren't too similar, results-wise maybe so.

 

Gah, Randy Bush turns 55 this year.

[stringer bell]

My idea of a AAAA hitter is someone who makes his living feasting on fastballs in the strike zone, which become increasingly rare as you move up. Not that he couldn't have hit his ceiling, but this sign seems the opposite and more unusual.

To me, a 4A hitter is a guy who can hit marginal pitching, be it breaking stuff, offspeed, or heat. Hitting Pelfrey's 92 MPH heater can be done by a 4A guy, while hitting Felix, Verlander, Strassberg, etc. not so easy. If fastballs are Parm's weakness, he needs to develop a way to survive against them--like shortening his swing and going the other way etc.--while feasting on the other stuff. I remember Puckett's first years where he survived against the heat but feasted on mistakes like hanging curve balls.

[troyhobbs]

He's only 25 and nobody is ripping the cover off the ball on this team. They say hitting is contagious and there ain't many hot bats around to catch the bug from. He's underperforming but his potential makes him worth keeping around.

[TheLeviathan]

My idea of a AAAA hitter is someone who makes his living feasting on fastballs in the strike zone, which become increasingly rare as you move up. Not that he couldn't have hit his ceiling, but this sign seems the opposite and more unusual.

 

Agreed, I posted something about that the other day in hopes one of the guys more versed in the minors cold help out. I always thought AAA was good fastball exposure but it was off speed experience missing. Is tht just incorrect? It seems odd he can obliterate guys in AAA who largely don't have a full big league arsenal with an inability to hit fastballs. How does that happen?