Article: Three-Bagger: Worley, Correia & Florimon

[Nick Nelson]

You can view the page at http://twinsdaily.com/content.php?r=1787-Three-Bagger-Worley-Correia-Florimon

[Seth Stohs]

Nevertheless, the shutdown effort undoubtedly provided some much-needed confidence for Worley

 

I think this is the key. That's the key. Get some success. Start feeling confident, then worry about the other stuff..

 

Nice article!

[Badsmerf]

I'm in agreement on Florimon. He's looked much better at the plate and in the field. I view him as the type of player we had all hoped Casilla would be. I see him as having a little more pop with less contact and patience. I'm fine with him at SS for awhile too. Plus, he still has room to keep improving. Danny Santana has started hitting a little bit in AA, but for 2013 and probably 2014 Florimon will have an everyday spot.

[Willihammer]

KC did serve up 3 more taters today. All solos. 3 more double plays too. He's outperforming his peripherals by a half run or better due, in part I think, to the great timing of these dingers. 9/10 have been solo shots.

[jokin]

KC did serve up 3 more taters today. All solos. 3 more double plays too. He's outperforming his peripherals by a half run or better due, in part I think, to the great timing of these dingers. 9/10 have been solo shots.

 

The DP in the first inning was a line drive screamer to SS with no outs and the bases loaded- and then a poor base-running effort by the runner at Second Base too far off the bag to get two. Why do I think that if Braun and one of the other injured Brewers had been in the lineup today that Corriea may very well have not survived the first inning?

 

The 2 Home Runs that Gomez hit, especially the first one, were positively savage and conceivably nightmare-inducing for the pitcher that threw them. Credit to Correia for battling through it today, I still have grave doubts that he will end up hitting his career averages before all is said and done. Also, as I've stated elsewhere, KC dodging the Tigers this weekend was a very solid career move for him.

[Physics Guy]

Nice article Nick. I have been pulling for Florimon to somehow provide adequate production at SS and he seems to be doing it. I would be happy with an OPS in the mid-600's out of him for the season if he can continue to limit the errors/mental mistakes. He is just a stop-gap, but at his current production I am happy with that.

[YourHouseIsMyHouse]

Florimon has been fantastic so far. I'm in love with his game (even the scraggly beard). Should be noted that he's produced close to 1.0 WAR already and has arguably been the best defensive SS in the majors so far. He may not have much power, but he's hitting .385/.452/.615 with RISP. Cannot tell you how much I've seen him come through in the clutch. Exactly what we've needed from a Twins SS for years. He's been a quality starter and I hope he continues and proves you more wrong about the "stopgap" idea (in a positive way). Am I saying there's a chance he will be starting for the next 5-6 years? No, but with this SSS he's at least proving that he's capable of providing the level of play necessary.

[Brandon]

My issue with the Correia signing was that it was for 2 years. That meant the Twins were punting 2013 and 2014 in my mind. If he can pitch 200+ innings this season he will have accomplished his mission and the contract may be a bargain for this season. Next season will be another thing as hopefully Meyer and Gibson are up and one of Walters or Dedunno becomes successful up here and Worely and Diamond gives us an extra starter next season and we wont be dependent on Correia to be a #2 starter but maybe a #5

[ThePuck]

Should be noted that he's produced close to 1.0 WAR already and has arguably been the best defensive SS in the majors so far.

 

He's been a pleasant surprise for sure, in all aspects of his game, after a shaky start...but he's not the best defensive SS in the majors...no way.

[Mike Sixel]

yup, they've both surprised.....I'll just leave the rest of my comments off....

[jmlease1]

Correia has been a pleasant surprise. I hope it's sustainable; if so, then this will turn out to be a good signing even with the extra year that I felt was so foolish. I'll be perfectly happy with Correia in the rotation next season as hopefully the 4th starter behind guys like Gibson, Diamond, and hopefully Worley. As an innings-eating 4th/5th starter next season he could end up being an even bigger asset. Credit where it's due: this move has worked out.

 

Worley's struggles have honestly shocked me. I didn't expect him to be an ace, but I really thought he'd be a guy that you could count on for 6+ innings in the majority of his starts with solid performance. He wasn't the prize in that trade but looked like a terrific stabilizing/bridge option in the rotation while the younger guys developed. So far he's been a wreck. Hopefully a few starts down in AAA will get his confidence back up, they can iron out any mechanical difficulties he might be having and get him on track.

 

Florimon has been solid, which is something the Twins have really needed at SS. He still has too many brainlocks out there which leads to him making an error that seems utterly baffling, but he's not a black hole at the plate and when he's on can be a plus defender. His age & price make him a nice choice at SS. But I agree 100% that the Twins don't really have a long-term solution at the position and that's not a good thing.

[ThePuck]

Correia has been a pleasant surprise. I hope it's sustainable; if so, then this will turn out to be a good signing even with the extra year that I felt was so foolish. I'll be perfectly happy with Correia in the rotation next season as hopefully the 4th starter behind guys like Gibson, Diamond, and hopefully Worley. As an innings-eating 4th/5th starter next season he could end up being an even bigger asset. Credit where it's due: this move has worked out.

 

Worley's struggles have honestly shocked me. I didn't expect him to be an ace, but I really thought he'd be a guy that you could count on for 6+ innings in the majority of his starts with solid performance. He wasn't the prize in that trade but looked like a terrific stabilizing/bridge option in the rotation while the younger guys developed. So far he's been a wreck. Hopefully a few starts down in AAA will get his confidence back up, they can iron out any mechanical difficulties he might be having and get him on track.

 

Florimon has been solid, which is something the Twins have really needed at SS. He still has too many brainlocks out there which leads to him making an error that seems utterly baffling, but he's not a black hole at the plate and when he's on can be a plus defender. His age & price make him a nice choice at SS. But I agree 100% that the Twins don't really have a long-term solution at the position and that's not a good thing.

 

Correia is staying true to form so far...very good April, then it all starts going downhill. Not sure we're anywhere near close enough to make a call on how he is turning out.

[fairweather]

This was very well written. It's a lesson on writing positive without leaving out the necessary negatives that needed to be mentioned.

[Riverbrian]

This was very well written. It's a lesson on writing positive without leaving out the necessary negatives that needed to be mentioned.

 

Nick is very good... He is always worth reading.

[ashbury]

The DP in the first inning was a line drive screamer to SS with no outs and the bases loaded- and then a poor base-running effort by the runner at Second Base too far off the bag to get two.

 

This is what bugs me about the Twins rosters, even back when they were winning divisions. The Piranha approach can work when the competition is like this, making mistakes that cost them. That lets you rack up enough wins to get to the postseason, when it works. But then you run into playoff teams who do not get themselves out and who do not give you 4 outs of your own.

[Nick Nelson]

Nick is very good... He is always worth reading.

 

Thanks guys!

[YourHouseIsMyHouse]

He's been a pleasant surprise for sure, in all aspects of his game, after a shaky start...but he's not the best defensive SS in the majors...no way.

 

That's opinion. He's leading all shortstops in range factor, boasts close to a .980% Fielding, 2nd in Zone runs, and 2nd in Double Plays. His fielding rating per fangraphs is 6th behind Andrus, Simmons, Pennington, Drew and Tulowitski. He's not the best, but don't act like it's much of a stretch.

[ThePuck]

It was you who said he was arguably the best defensive shortstop in the majors this year and now in this post you say he isn't. So why are you so bothered I was definitive in my statement that he isn't?

 

He's 8th in RZR (actual range), he's 20th in plays made OOZ, he's 5th in UZR and he's 11th in defensive runs saved. And, not only that, you watch some of the other guys play the position, like Tulo, Simmons and Andrus, yeah I think it's a stretch to suggest he's the best defensive SS in baseball.

 

I know it's the in thing to say that everything is opinion, but not everything is opinion. I don't see any argument that can be made for Florimon to be considered the best defensive shortstop. You haven't made one that's convincing.

 

In my opinion, an argument could be made for Tulo and Simmons along with Andrus. If I'm just going off what I've seen this year, it's Simmons and Tulo neck and neck. As long as Brendan Ryan is healthy, he may very well he there in the discusssion at the end of the year too.

[jokin]

yeah, he's had a lot of Ops due to our pitching staff having a lot of balls in play.

 

...but he's 8th in RZR (actual range), he's 20th in plays made OOZ, he's 5th in UZR and he's 11th in defensive runs saved. And, not only that, you watch some of the other guys play the position, like Tulo, Simmons and Andrus, yeah I think it's a stretch to suggest he's the best defensive SS in baseball.

 

Thanks for the supporting defensive stats. They certainly confirm the eye test. Rather than thinking about placing him amongst the defensive elite at SS, how about we just see if he can sustain anything close to his May numbers for a longer period, or it may be he's just another in a long list of Latin teases at SS for the Twins.

[ThePuck]

Thanks for the supporting defensive stats. They certainly confirm the eye test. Rather than thinking about placing him amongst the defensive elite at SS, how about we just see if he can sustain anything close to his May numbers for a longer period, or it may be he's just another in a long list of Latin teases at SS for the Twins.

 

Like I said, I've been pleasantly surprised by him. Me saying definitively that he isn't the best defensive shortstop was no slight on him. There can only be on person who is the best at each spot. It's not like I was saying he was bad.

[jokin]

Like I said, I've been pleasantly surprised by him. Me saying definitively that he isn't the best defensive shortstop was no slight on him. There can only be on person who is the best at each spot. It's not like I was saying he was bad.

 

No, he's been anything but bad. I think he's performed at a level that was about the best that any realistic fan could hope for. It's just that it seems for certain fans, if any Twin exceeds expectations particularly based on the SSS, they go completely to the extreme- to characterizations that include references to "the best" at the position.

[snepp]

Here's a highly detailed graph of my feelings toward Florimon.

 

 

 

[ThePuck]

No, he's been anything but bad. I think he's performed at a level that was about the best that any realistic fan could hope for. It's just that it seems for certain fans, if any Twin exceeds expectations particularly based on the SSS, they go completely to the extreme- to characterizations that include references to "the best" at the position.

 

I agree that happens sometimes...I think, with a lot of fans from all fan bases, they don't watch enough of other teams to be able to get a good comparison of players.

[cmathewson]

Good job. I especially like how you own how some of your predictions going into the season have not panned out.

 

One nit: I think the Twins have more shortstop talent than they have had in a very long time. Santana is a special talent who should be ready within the next three years. But I really like what the Twins have at Cedar Rapids in Jorge Polanco and Niko Goodrum. I can't remember when we have had two such middle infield prospects at the same level at the same time.

 

Still and all, the central point is true: Florimon is shaping up to be a decent stop gap until one of those three is ready. He's a good find for the organization.

[Riverbrian]

Here's a highly detailed graph of my feelings toward Florimon.

 

 

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]4197[/ATTACH]

 

Brilliant!!!