Article: Joe Benson claimed off waivers by Rangers

[Guest USAFChief]

Well, I'll go down as approving.

 

I'll be honest - I'm more shocked that there is some actual outrage about this than I am about the move. In fact, this is what I suggested would happen yesterday. Any outrage I would attribute to an outdated expectation of who this guy is. Sometimes a guy just isn't who we want him to be.

 

Even if we write off his problems last year to injury (which is kind, considering he wasn't hurt until midyear) we still have a 25-year-old who was hitting .192 with 50 strikeouts (vs 10 BB) in 164 AB. He was going to need to be demoted to AA to find himself for the second straight year and indeed - that's where he new team stuck him. Plus he's out of options.

 

So here is the scenario where this somehow turns into a disaster: within 3 months he rights himself at AA, carries that success into AAA (where he now has a .187 batting average over 272 PA) and makes it to the majors to stick for the next couple of years. As.... a 4th outfielder?

 

Finally, it's not like the Twins gave him his walking papers. It was certainly a reasonable gamble that nobody would pick him up and he would get through waivers.

 

Good lord - even Drew Butera hit .211 in Rochester. He even struck out HALF as often as Benson. Sometimes a guy just isn't who we want him to be.

 

I doubt anyone's under the illusion Benson is any kind of sure thing. On the other hand, his chances of being a useful player for the Twins in 2014 and beyond are about 1 bazillion times more than the chances Wilkin Ramirez is.

 

And you're ignoring the obvious...nobody had to go off the 40 man. Nobody.

[jokin]

I see the Rangers optioned Joe to AA. I guess this is low risk-high reward for them. If everything comes together it could be a great acquisition, if not he'll be available to anyone next year. Yes, this leaves the Twins woefully thin in center fielders until Mastro is ready to go (July?), but they can always DFA someone else and add Richardson or Thomas.

 

What? And have to endure this endless roster-culling-gnashing-of-teeth yet again?

[Rosterman]

Yeah, we all remember Bullock for Diamond. And we all "shouted" when the Twins included Eddie Morlan in that Rays deal. So, maybe it is for the best. Maybe he won't go anywheres. We are, after all, playing for now...fielding a team to contend in 2013.

[big dog]

Yeah, we could have brought Gibson up instead of Walters. However, I want to see Gibson succeed in a Twins uniform for 10 years. If he isn't ready, and the cost is a minor league outfielder who's been a wreck for two years, I'm willing to pay that price.

 

I'm new to the board here, but it seems like a lot of you start out every discussion by assuming Ryan is an idiot, and making arguments to support that out of every decision made. I think this one is a stretch. I don't support it as a great move, but the criticisms seem a little overblown to me. But whatever.

[LaBombo]

I'm firmly in Brock's 'meh' camp, which is probably a contradiction in itself.

 

John's take on Benson's value as a prospect sounds right to me. While the injury history raises doubts about whether Benson has totally flamed out as a prospect, he seems like a long shot to succeed as anything more than a 4th OF at best, and that's not terribly valuable in an organization that is widely thought to have plenty of OF prospects, or in a league with plenty of 4th OF's coming and going pretty often, for that matter.

 

On the other hand, this is a franchise that has a starting CF who was promoted from AA ball despite needing at least a full season at every minor league level, and is still batting just .131/.218/.196 against right-handed pitchers.

 

It also has a backup CF who won't play again until after the ASB. It has played multiple games with Wilkin Ramirez in center despite its supposed belief that defense is important. And its now Benson-less AAA affiliate has two CF's, one who is injured and one who has 4 more AB's than my dog does in the majors.

 

Overall, it seems like a good time to have nearly absolute faith in the front office. Benson gone? It's because he has no value to the Twins. Not even if Hicks needs to be sent down? Hicks doesn't need to be sent down because the front office thinks either that he'll be fine or it won't matter if he is or not, which means that either he'll be fine or it won't matter. Promoting Gibson would've made it moot? The front office thought it wasn't in the best interest of the franchise yet, so it's a non-factor.

 

In a season where the maneuvers of the Twins braintrust increasingly resemble the calm strategic chess moves of a squirrel on an interstate highway, the Benson saga is simultaneously an outrage and par for the course.

 

Meh.

[Brock Beauchamp]

In a season where the maneuvers of the Twins braintrust increasingly resemble the calm strategic chess moves of a squirrel on an interstate highway, the Benson saga is simultaneously an outrage and par for the course.

 

Easily one of the best things I've seen posted on this forum.

[Mike Sixel]

Gibson will be 26 this year, you might want to count on 10 years in a Twins uni.

[Danchat]

I don't like to interrupt your guys' conversation, but Wilkin Ramirez (aka the only CF other than Hicks on the 40 man roster) just left hurt and could end up on the 7 day DL. The Twins seriously need another CF. Just say goodbye to a catcher.

[jun]

Fine, but he's 25. And he plays a position we only have one other capable player at who happens to be hitting well under .200. This is a bit mind-boggling.

 

Since this is a lost season (something the Twins even seem to be aware of) why not call up Hendricks? He's proven all he can in AAA already, so rather than dump a 25 year old that plays a position of needed depth, why not just call up Liam?

 

There is literally no way to wrap your head around this choice. There may have been a dozen better options.

 

Hendriks is injured and has been struggling in AAA this season, he has no business to be in the major league this year even if it's a lost season. Both Walters and Deduno have been doing well in AAA. Albers has also been doing well. All three should be called up before Hendriks. Gibson has been doing all right in AAA and he has a lot more upside than Hendriks. He should also be called up before Hendriks.

[Halsey Hall]

I could of posted this when there was only 2 replies, and probably should have. I'm not in the least upset with this move and happy for Joe. A fresh start is what he needs, he's grown stale here and now gets a new chance. I really don't think this had anything to do with attitude. I've watched him in the spring since he came here, and he always seemed like a good teammate and gave it his all. He kind of reminds me of Adam Johnson, and nothing like David McCarty. Joe's a good guy and I wish him the best. As far as all the whining about roster moves, ect, who cares? We just came off a 10 game losing streak, for crying out loud. If Joe passed thru waivers would we win 10 straight? Heck no! To hell with the 40 man. And he darn near made it thru, finally getting claimed by Texas, so he goes to a winning organization! Good for him, run with it Joe, run with it.

[jimbo92107]

Dang, I thought Benson was going to pull it together this year. Now he'll go and be a huge star for Texas.

[Pius Jefferson]

If it wasn't already the 2006 draft is turning into a huge dud.

[John Bonnes]

And you're ignoring the obvious...nobody had to go off the 40 man. Nobody.

 

I don't know exactly why they're being so cautious w Gibson. I can think of three reason, and they all speak to them valuing him more than I expected:

1. The innings limit - protecting his health

2. The consistency - protecting his confidence

3. The service time - protecting the ininvestment

 

Whatever the reason, I don't see Joe Benson as being worth enough to change it.

[Seth Stohs]

I don't know exactly why they're being so cautious w Gibson. I can think of three reason, and they all speak to them valuing him more than I expected:

1. The innings limit - protecting his health

2. The consistency - protecting his confidence

3. The service time - protecting the ininvestment

 

Whatever the reason, I don't see Joe Benson as being worth enough to change it.

 

1.) The injury thing... they would be crazy not to protect him. He did have a fairly significant injury and surgery and an extensive rehab. Just because he's physically at 100% doesn't mean that he should just be thrown into the big leagues. He's got work to do.

2.) The consistency... It's pretty clear that this is a real thing, it's a legitimate concern for the Twins, and even Gibson acknowledges he doesn't know why he's been good only every other start. Finally on Saturday, he put together two straight good starts for the first time this year.

3.) The investment... Again, I encourage this already because it just makes business sense and this is a business, but I think it takes away from Deduno and especially Walters and how they were doing to say that it had to be Gibson called up. I think it would be a smart business decision, but the Twins have shown time and again that that isn't an issue. It was discussed in the spring, and it is again now. The TWins have ridiculously kept Hicks in the big leagues this whole time despite it costing them time and years. If it wasn't for the pitching issues on this team, Arcia would likely still be up despite his offensive and defensive struggles. They have proven that money is not the issue.

 

My thought is that the Twins should always do what is best for the top prospects. I don't agree with what they're doing with Hicks. I think that it is fair for Terry Ryan to want to see Gibson put together 4-5 good starts. He now has thrown very well in three out of four starts. He's continuing to get better. I don't care that he's 25. Two years of development were derailed. Not much he could do about that. Doesn't mean he can't be a very good pitcher.

[beckmt]

I am of the opinion that Benson was no big deal. Twins have raft of outfielders coming and he is not putting it together. For those of you with short memories, Mike Schmidt hit like .198 in his first major league season. Not saying Hicks will be that good, but just to say patience is required. This is the sort them out year and see what we have. It could be a painful process, but unless you want to spend a lot of money, this is what many teams have gone through, before they got good. Keep stocking the farm system and have an overabundance of very good players ready for the major leagues.

[YourHouseIsMyHouse]

Just stupid. I hate the attitude cop out. It's complete crap. Do you think Benson is supposed to be happy with how his career's going?! Of course he's going to sulk sometimes. Give me a break. There were at least 7 players that I proposed the Twins could be risking in this 40 man move and none of them were Benson. Losing talent for nothing is complete idiocy. The people who ok'd this move have their heads up their rear.

[mako83]

He looked so outmatched in 2011 i am sorry he didnt workout but i didnt think he would get claimed. But the ramirez thing scares me unless parmlee takes up cf

[Oxtung]

I am of the opinion that Benson was no big deal. Twins have raft of outfielders coming and he is not putting it together. For those of you with short memories, Mike Schmidt hit like .198 in his first major league season. Not saying Hicks will be that good, but just to say patience is required. This is the sort them out year and see what we have. It could be a painful process, but unless you want to spend a lot of money, this is what many teams have gone through, before they got good. Keep stocking the farm system and have an overabundance of very good players ready for the major leagues.

 

Schmidt posted an OPS+ of 92 that year. Hick's OPS+ currently is 43. I don't think anybody is saying Hicks will never make it. I think people are just saying if there was another option in CF he needs to get moved down to AAA to work on his obvious flaws. Continuously hitting .150 doesn't seem to be helping him.

[Nick Nelson]

Puck is correct, there is league preference, so since Texas has the best record in the AL we know that 13 passed on him.

 

Incorrect. Outright waivers are not segregated by league.

[kab21]

I wouldn't have DFA'd Benson but I also wouldn't make the big fuss that has been made in this thread. Superficially his numbers were really good for a couple of years but in the end his upside was Drew Stubbs. The downside was the mess that has been in Rochester the last two years.

 

At some point I think the Twins temporarily need to address the CF issue. Joe Benson was not going to be an answer this year.

[orangevening]

I think this move was made a lot more for Benson's sake than the twins. It seems like he was mentally stuck and wasn't wasn't getting out w/o change of scenery

[diehardtwinsfan]

Personally, I would have DFAd Butera, Herman, or Hermsen... but that's me. While I was really hoping for Benson to succeed, it has become painfully obvious that he won't succeed with the Twins. Hopefully he gets a shot with Texas. If he doesn't put it together soon, he's going to be a 4th OF, and that's it.

[savvyspy]

This move doesn't really bother me. It fits the way this front office does things. They were never going to give Benson a chance even though they are the worst team in the league for the 3rd consecutive year. Why not let him go to a new organization and see if he can overcome his injury. We get treated to 2 .200 hitting horrible defensive outfielders in the meantime to make a run at 95 losses.

[IdahoPilgrim]

I guess the big question I have right now is not why did the Twins expose Benson to waivers, but why did Texas take him? Next year he's right back where he would be - needing to be on the major league roster or being exposed to waivers again. Do the Texas Rangers think they can turn him around in half a season and make him major-league ready? My guess is they are thinking he can still be a major league player someday but know it will be another couple of years down the road before he is ready. Are they hoping that next year, when he doesn't make the opening day roster, they can put him through waivers again, have him clear (he almost did this time), take him off the 40-man, and then have some breathing space to work with him? That's the only thing I can think of.

 

How much minor league service time does Benson have - how long before he is eligible to be a minor league free agent?

[Mr. Brooks]

I guess the big question I have right now is not why did the Twins expose Benson to waivers, but why did Texas take him? Next year he's right back where he would be - needing to be on the major league roster or being exposed to waivers again. Do the Texas Rangers think they can turn him around in half a season and make him major-league ready? My guess is they are thinking he can still be a major league player someday but know it will be another couple of years down the road before he is ready. Are they hoping that next year, when he doesn't make the opening day roster, they can put him through waivers again, have him clear (he almost did this time), take him off the 40-man, and then have some breathing space to work with him? That's the only thing I can think of.

 

Why would he need a couple of years?

At his age, he could go on a 6 week hot streak and get a call up.

They took him for the same reason we should have kept him. When a guy has legit talent (I get he hasnt turned it into results so far), you don't give up on him until you have to.

If he hasnt done anything to get a call up this year, I'm guessing Texas says goodbye, it was worth a shot.

It's not like they traded for him, there was no risk, all they did was move a guy to the 60 day DL.

 

 

BTW: As bad as Benson was, he has a higher MLB OPS+ than Hicks does.

[SweetOne69]

Incorrect. Outright waivers are not segregated by league.

 

You may be correct, but I read otherwise.

[DaveW]

The outrage in this thread is hilarious.

[Han Joelo]

When you look at how he's yo-yoed the last couple years, along with the hand injury deal, which (I'm probably wrong on this) might have stemmed from him punching the wall in frustration, I feel like this was an ADMIRABLE move by the Twins. He still has a chance, it just wasn't going to happen here.

 

As far as CF depth, yeah, another 40 man decision needs to be made. Good. Time to start churning. Hellfire, just get it over with and bring up Buxton already. Or at least Angel Morales. He's prime to get called up to AA; lets compare his and Benson's numbers at the end of the year.

[jorgenswest]

At some point Hicks or Ramirez will go dtd or be sent down and they will need a space on the 40 to move up Clete Thomas.

 

Prepare you arguments for 100+ replies to losing Chris Colabello, Sam Deduno or PJ Walters. Whose turn is it to play the attitude card when one of them go?

[ThePuck]

You may be correct, but I read otherwise.

 

Rules for outright waivers.

 

November 11 - April 30 (or the 30th day of the next season): The club with the worst won-loss record in the previous season has priority.

May 1 – July 31 (31st day of the season – July 31): The club with the worst won-loss record in the current season has priority.

August 1 through November 10: The club with the worst won-loss record in the current season has priority, but American League clubs have priority for AL players, and National League clubs have priority for NL players.

 

 

So it's all about when.