Current Twins' Injuries

[stringer bell]

Just making mental notes about Twins' injuries and the respective player's prospects of playing on Opening Day. To my knowledge, three Twins position players haven't taken the field in an exhibition game--Kirilloff, Buxton and Polanco. Two pitchers have been delayed after suffering injuries early--Winder (before ST) and Henriquez. In addition, while he is able to hit, Miranda has been limited to DHing because of a sore shoulder.

"New" position player injuries would now include Gordon (today--high ankle sprain), Larnach (lower body) and Celestino (thumb).

Did I miss anyone? IMHO this is a rocky start on the injury front. The key to me is the three projected starters who haven't yet taken the field.

[stringer bell]

Forgot Balazovic. I see he's been optioned already today.

[Otwins]

Not worried yet but you are right that it is not a good start. Hopefully Buxton and Polanco just being cautious.  Glad we have depth. Keep reading posters who want to trade Farmer or Kepler. Just say NO

[Vanimal46]

That’s the risk continuing to rely on improved health from a roster that’s been injured time and time again. 

[Major League Ready]

12 hours ago, Vanimal46 said:

That’s the risk continuing to rely on improved health from a roster that’s been injured time and time again. 

"Continuing to rely implies there is a better option.  "How would you go about not relying on improved health?  Who would you trade?  How do you get around the fact that it's hard (not impossible) to trade established talent for established talent?  How do you get around the likelihood a player with injury questions has significantly reduced value.

[Mike Sixel]

16 hours ago, Vanimal46 said:

That’s the risk continuing to rely on improved health from a roster that’s been injured time and time again. 

They literally brought in 2 backup infielders and another OFer....they aren't relying on health. I have no idea what this even means. They also brought in another SP....so, they aren't sitting around hoping, they added a TON of depth.

[Parfigliano]

No injuries is ideal but unrealistic.  On the bright side little dings to start March are better then to start April.

[Vanimal46]

39 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

They literally brought in 2 backup infielders and another OFer....they aren't relying on health. I have no idea what this even means. They also brought in another SP....so, they aren't sitting around hoping, they added a TON of depth.

A ton of depth? We’re 1-2 more injuries away in the OF from Ryan Lamarre playing. It’s March 4th. 

[Mike Sixel]

Just now, Vanimal46 said:

A ton of depth? We’re 1-2 more injuries away in the OF from Ryan Lamarre playing. It’s March 4th. 

So, you think they sat around and hoped? They didn't bring in two OFers and two backup Infielders? They didn't trade for another SP? What do you want them to do, to prepare for injuries, other than add depth? 

[Vanimal46]

18 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

So, you think they sat around and hoped? They didn't bring in two OFers and two backup Infielders? They didn't trade for another SP? What do you want them to do, to prepare for injuries, other than add depth? 

One of the signed OF is playing 1B because Kirilloff is still recovering from his injury. 

[Vanimal46]

40 minutes ago, Parfigliano said:

No injuries is ideal but unrealistic.  On the bright side little dings to start March are better then to start April.

Sure, if they stop in April. What are the chances of that?

[stringer bell]

Last year the Twins got through Spring Training with minimal injuries. I do remember Dobnak going down with his finger problem, but little else. Once the season started, the injuries really hit, including Paddack for the entire year and Buxton with a knee injury that impacted him basically the entire year. 

[KirbyDome89]

1 hour ago, Mike Sixel said:

They literally brought in 2 backup infielders and another OFer....they aren't relying on health. I have no idea what this even means. They also brought in another SP....so, they aren't sitting around hoping, they added a TON of depth.

What? Maeda, Mahle, and Ober (3 of their top 6 starters) are health bets. The only real "addition," to an underwhelming bullpen was Alcala, another health bet. Buxton isn't even a gamble, he's basically a lock to miss significant time. Then there's Kirilloff and Larnach. This team is absolutely relying on health. A questionable offense takes a significant step backwards if Farmer, Taylor, or Solano are playing every day. 

[mnfireman]

38 minutes ago, KirbyDome89 said:

This team is absolutely relying on health.

As does every MLB team...

[Craig Arko]

8 minutes ago, mnfireman said:

As does every MLB team...

And a nontrivial portion of humanity in general. 

[Mike Sixel]

1 hour ago, KirbyDome89 said:

What? Maeda, Mahle, and Ober (3 of their top 6 starters) are health bets. The only real "addition," to an underwhelming bullpen was Alcala, another health bet. Buxton isn't even a gamble, he's basically a lock to miss significant time. Then there's Kirilloff and Larnach. This team is absolutely relying on health. A questionable offense takes a significant step backwards if Farmer, Taylor, or Solano are playing every day. 

You are expecting backups to be good MLB at every position? I didn't mention the bullpen. They brought in 2 OFers and 2 backup infielders. They brought in another SP. How many backups do you want them to add? 

[Mike Sixel]

1 hour ago, Vanimal46 said:

One of the signed OF is playing 1B because Kirilloff is still recovering from his injury. 

You aren't really answering the question, are you? How many backups do you want? They brought in 2 OFers, 2 INf, and another SP. Everyone whined Gallo was redundant, I said he was here to make sure injuries didn't hurt as much......and they were keeping Kepler for that reason....Did you want them sign another backup? Whose place would he take?

[tony&rodney]

Why does it seem like people are discussing injuries in a way that sounds like reverse psychology? PTSD?

Or have a few folks sworn off of wine and chocolate for Lent? 

[KirbyDome89]

25 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

You are expecting backups to be good MLB at every position? I didn't mention the bullpen. They brought in 2 OFers and 2 backup infielders. They brought in another SP. How many backups do you want them to add? 

I already said I don't, which is why I think "depth," is a silly counter when we're talking about whether or not this team relying on health bets.

[Obsvr]

6 minutes ago, KirbyDome89 said:

I already said I don't, which is why I think "depth," is a silly counter when we're talking about whether or not this team relying on health bets.

Every single team rely's on "health bets".

They replaced their head trainer, they brought in MLB level back ups.  What is the alternative?

[stringer bell]

44 minutes ago, Obsvr said:

Every single team rely's on "health bets".

They replaced their head trainer, they brought in MLB level back ups.  What is the alternative?

I think the alternative is “blow it up”. The injuries of the last two years would cripple any team IMHO. If the Twins experience a similar volume of injuries to key players, there will be temptation to go another way, although the long-term contracts of Buxton and Correa would make those changes more difficult. 

[Beast]

It seems there’s a fairly ridiculous semantics battle going on here in which both side are right and wrong, simultaneously.

I think it’s more accurate to say they’re relying on health….of some players who haven’t proven they can be healthy.  They’re banking on Buxton, Kirilloff, Polanco, and some combo of Mahle, Maeda, Gray, Ober to stay healthy in order to have a successful year.  I agree that’s not an ideal situation to put yourself in.  But, every team deals with injuries at some point.  It’s also largely not those guys creating the issue right now.  Gordon, Miranda, Winder, and Henriquez injuries aren’t going to derail the team.  I don’t think it’s that surprising or unexpected to see Buxton, Polanco, and Kirilloff limited in exhibits right now.  

On the flip side, saying “what are they supposed to do about it,” isn’t a valid defense.  They can help it.  They put themselves in the situation.  If you get thrown in jail for drunk driving, and someone criticizes you for being in jail, responding “what am I supposed to do about it, they won’t let me out,” doesn’t absolve you of making the decisions that put you there.  Frankly, identifying players that can stay in the field is part of the job.  There’s an element of luck there (Royce Lewis).  But, when you actively target and trade for a damaged player, you deserve criticism.

Also, “they’ve brought in a ton of depth,” doesn’t hold much water.  Sorry, but if that depth isn’t that good.  If the lineup consists of some utility castoffs from the Reds, Michael Taylor, etc., for significant stretches, the team will stink just like it did last year.  People lost their minds over the Gallo signing.  They did trade for Lopez, but they also gave up a Silver Slugger and batting champion.

I see a lot of issues on both sides of the table here.  My take:  they do deserve to be criticized if this season once again is derailed by injuries to the usual suspects (Buxton, Polanco, Mahle, Ober, Maeda, etc).  I’d even throw Correa in there, they aren’t exempt from criticism if they made a poor evaluation.  If those guys start going down, the replacement level depth (Farmer, Taylor, et all), isn’t saving the day.  But, we’re nowhere near that point yet.  The key guys look on track to start the season.

[stringer bell]

49 minutes ago, Beast said:

Also, “they’ve brought in a ton of depth,” doesn’t hold much water.  Sorry, but if that depth isn’t that good.  If the lineup consists of some utility castoffs from the Reds, Michael Taylor, etc., for significant stretches, the team will stink just like it did last year.  People lost their minds over the Gallo signing.  They did trade for Lopez, but they also gave up a Silver Slugger and batting champion.

I see a lot of issues on both sides of the table here.  My take:  they do deserve to be criticized if this season once again is derailed by injuries to the usual suspects (Buxton, Polanco, Mahle, Ober, Maeda, etc).  I’d even throw Correa in there, they aren’t exempt from criticism if they made a poor evaluation.  If those guys start going down, the replacement level depth (Farmer, Taylor, et all), isn’t saving the day.  But, we’re nowhere near that point yet.  The key guys look on track to start the season.

I think it is not fair to call the players acquired "utility castoffs". Farmer got full-time regular at-bats last year, Taylor earned 3.2 BWar last season in over 400 PAs and Solano played regularly after missing more than the first two months of the season. Granted, these three played for poor teams and would be classified as in the bottom half of regulars at their positions. I think, as a group, they will be valuable bench players if not forced into full-time duty. If injuries force these guys into full-time duty they will be adequate fill-ins. This is much better than filling those gaps with Gilberto Celestino, Mark Contreras and Tim Beckham, to name a few.

Just about every team is counting on pitchers who have injury issues. The Twins have five solid veterans as a prospective rotation and 4-5 young guys who wouldn't surprise most of us if they thrived in the big leagues if given a chance this year. Having 8-9 solid options makes sense in this era where pitchers routinely fail to pitch 160 innings in a season. 

[Squirrel]

10 hours ago, Beast said:

Also, “they’ve brought in a ton of depth,” doesn’t hold much water.  Sorry, but if that depth isn’t that good.  If the lineup consists of some utility castoffs from the Reds, Michael Taylor, etc., for significant stretches, the team will stink just like it did last year.  People lost their minds over the Gallo signing.  They did trade for Lopez, but they also gave up a Silver Slugger and batting champion.

There was much I could agree on with your post but not this part, The depth they acquired this year is WAY better than the depth they had to rely on last year. Solano, Taylor, Gallo and Farmer are hardly cast offs. 

[Dave The Dastardly]

11 hours ago, Beast said:

It seems there’s a fairly ridiculous semantics battle going on here in which both side are right and wrong, simultaneously.

I think it’s more accurate to say they’re relying on health….of some players who haven’t proven they can be healthy.  They’re banking on Buxton, Kirilloff, Polanco, and some combo of Mahle, Maeda, Gray, Ober to stay healthy in order to have a successful year.  I agree that’s not an ideal situation to put yourself in.  But, every team deals with injuries at some point.  It’s also largely not those guys creating the issue right now.  Gordon, Miranda, Winder, and Henriquez injuries aren’t going to derail the team.  I don’t think it’s that surprising or unexpected to see Buxton, Polanco, and Kirilloff limited in exhibits right now.  

On the flip side, saying “what are they supposed to do about it,” isn’t a valid defense.  They can help it.  They put themselves in the situation.  If you get thrown in jail for drunk driving, and someone criticizes you for being in jail, responding “what am I supposed to do about it, they won’t let me out,” doesn’t absolve you of making the decisions that put you there.  Frankly, identifying players that can stay in the field is part of the job.  There’s an element of luck there (Royce Lewis).  But, when you actively target and trade for a damaged player, you deserve criticism.

Also, “they’ve brought in a ton of depth,” doesn’t hold much water.  Sorry, but if that depth isn’t that good.  If the lineup consists of some utility castoffs from the Reds, Michael Taylor, etc., for significant stretches, the team will stink just like it did last year.  People lost their minds over the Gallo signing.  They did trade for Lopez, but they also gave up a Silver Slugger and batting champion.

I see a lot of issues on both sides of the table here.  My take:  they do deserve to be criticized if this season once again is derailed by injuries to the usual suspects (Buxton, Polanco, Mahle, Ober, Maeda, etc).  I’d even throw Correa in there, they aren’t exempt from criticism if they made a poor evaluation.  If those guys start going down, the replacement level depth (Farmer, Taylor, et all), isn’t saving the day.  But, we’re nowhere near that point yet.  The key guys look on track to start the season.

You made a logical, rational, well-thought-out argument. Sure to draw a lot of pushback.

[terrydactyls]

The obvious solution is to have a 50-man active roster (despite the rules limiting a team to 26) and to fill the extra 24 slots with Cy Young and Silver Slugger type players who never get injured.  This, of course, would require a payroll of probably $600M (plus an additional $300M in luxury tax).  But I'm sure the free spending Pohlad family would be amenable to that.  Problem solved.  Next topic?

[Rosterman]

I'm seeing some major roster decisions if too many guys are on the short-term IL-list. There is NOT a lot of give in the roster, hampered still if the Twins, say, would need to add a catcher short-term.

Is Polanco ready to start the season? If not, Julien stays. Can Miranda only DH? Then Solano or Farmer plays third, unless Kirilloff is also unable to play the field...wait, we have Gallo. Whcih means Taylor gets to play everyday and Larnach - wait - he's hobbling too (Garlick gets the call, followed by LaMarre!) But now we have, literally, no backups...especially if Gordon is hibbling. Celestino can go on the 60-day to open a roster spot...question is - for whom.

Yes, the rotation might remain dicey. Will Madea be able to go at least 5 innings once the season starts. Is Winder ready for a long relief role (or Sands). Does Alcala need time facing live pitching in extended spring training and a short term IL visit. Santana and Megill are on-the-cusp roster guys, so you might be able to rotate someone in their place. Canterino could also go on the 60-day, but would get major league service time.

The joy side is that it is spring training - round-the-clock rehab and possible play in the field (no rain outs yet), hitting cages, working with coaches, getting in shape. Pick-up games just to hit and field can kinda happen to stretch the skills set.

The World Baseball Classic kinda throws a wrench into some things...and when do the Twins start playing more than just a few of the "roster" folks in exhibition games.

[mnfireman]

11 minutes ago, Rosterman said:

Will Madea be able to go at least 5 innings once the season starts. 

Not worried about Maeda, he threw two scoreless the other day with the batters knowing what's coming. 

https://www.mlb.com/twins/news/kenta-maeda-on-pitchcom-during-spring-training-game-vs-rays

[FlyingFinn]

24 minutes ago, Rosterman said:

Whcih means Taylor gets to play everyday and Larnach - wait - he's hobbling too (Garlick gets the call, followed by LaMarre!) But now we have, literally, no backups...especially if Gordon is hibbling.

I think you are forgetting about Wallner. Plus, Buxton always starts out the year playing. If we suddenly start seeing Martin playing LF every day in spring training, that's when we will know that the injuries are affecting the start of the year in the OF. And if Santana and Pagan have to be jettisoned to make room for someone, I'm not sure that isn't a positive.

[Doctor Gast]

21 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

They literally brought in 2 backup infielders and another OFer....they aren't relying on health. I have no idea what this even means. They also brought in another SP....so, they aren't sitting around hoping, they added a TON of depth.

Plus Gallo & a bunch of AAAA OFers, INFers and catchers. My main concern isn't starting the season but ending the season with all our key players healthy.