Celestino Injured—Possible 40-man vacancy

[stringer bell]

Can’t find this elsewhere on TD, Celestino has a thumb injury and will be out 6-8 weeks. As I understand, since he is on the 40-man roster and hasn’t been optioned, he will be on the major league IL (big league pay and service time). 
 

It would seem to me that Celestino could be placed on the 60-day IL and create a space for a non-roster invitee. 

[wsnydes]

9 minutes ago, stringer bell said:

Can’t find this elsewhere on TD, Celestino has a thumb injury and will be out 6-8 weeks. As I understand, since he is on the 40-man roster and hasn’t been optioned, he will be on the major league IL (big league pay and service time). 
 

It would seem to me that Celestino could be placed on the 60-day IL and create a space for a non-roster invitee. 

That sucks.  Any idea what it was given such a long recovery time?

[mnfireman]

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2023/03/gilberto-celestino-out-6-8-weeks-following-thumb-surgery.html

[lecroy24fan]

If they were to put someone on the 40 man they'd still have to make a decision on who to remove when he's healthy. No need to do it unless they need to put someone on the 26 man. So the first of many RP's would likely be the one then.

[IndianaTwin]

Question of clarification -- with spring training injuries, does 60 days start from the time the player is put on the IL or on Opening Day? 

 

Edit to answer my own question...

From the MLBTR article linked above: "Players are eligible to be moved to the 60-day IL now but the clock doesn’t start counting down until Opening Day, which is March 30."

So, unless they are willing to commit to Celestino being unavailable until Memorial Day, which is well beyond the 6-8 weeks projected, that 40-man roster spot isn't yet available. 

[stringer bell]

14 minutes ago, IndianaTwin said:

Question of clarification -- with spring training injuries, does 60 days start from the time the player is put on the IL or on Opening Day? 

 

It looks like the 60-day time period starts on Opening Day. Celestino wouldn't be eligible to be activated until the end of May. However, he could start rehab three weeks rehab prior to that. Given that he's only had a few plate appearances, he probably would need an extended rehab before being activated. 

[wsnydes]

8 minutes ago, stringer bell said:

It looks like the 60-day time period starts on Opening Day. Celestino wouldn't be eligible to be activated until the end of May. However, he could start rehab three weeks rehab prior to that. Given that he's only had a few plate appearances, he probably would need an extended rehab before being activated. 

It'll be interesting to see how they approach him, especially if the outfield depth really has a poor spring.  With Taylor in the mix though, I'm not as worried about any of that unless a couple of other outfielders go down.

[Rosterman]

Yeah, if a 40-man guy is injured in spring training, he is officially on the major league injured list. Which is why a lot of guys are cut in the first week-10 days who have little chance of making the team (see Balazovic, Headrick, Varland, Woods Richardson - humm, not too many to cut as the Twins may wish to wait on Winder and Sands.

Good news for Celestino, he will egt major league service time. Why the 60-day could work (if needed) is that he could spend x-amount of days on training camp rehabbing, plus rehab in the low minors.

Of course, anyone on the 60-day means a corresponding move needs to happen when activated.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

2 hours ago, wsnydes said:

It'll be interesting to see how they approach him, especially if the outfield depth really has a poor spring.  With Taylor in the mix though, I'm not as worried about any of that unless a couple of other outfielders go down.

Might wait until they need the 40 man spot to add him to the 60 day?

edit: after rereading @Rosterman’s post, they have to fill the vacancy with the 60 day transaction definitionally, so yes…. they can’t reduce to 39 players on the 40 via 60 day il, answering my own question.

[Brock Beauchamp]

I don't see them moving Celestino to the 60-day for a potential six week injury.

[stringer bell]

5 minutes ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

I don't see them moving Celestino to the 60-day for a potential six week injury.

Maybe I'm selling short on Celestino, but if they have no more injuries in the outfield, I think they would 60-day Celestino if the need arises. He is behind Taylor, Buxton, Gordon, Kepler and Gallo in the outfield, along probably with Larnach. The Twins, I think, really don't want to lose anyone currently on the 40-man and would sacrifice a month of Celestino inactivity in order to keep everyone else in the organization. I guess we won't find out until we find out.

[Brock Beauchamp]

16 minutes ago, stringer bell said:

Maybe I'm selling short on Celestino, but if they have no more injuries in the outfield, I think they would 60-day Celestino if the need arises. He is behind Taylor, Buxton, Gordon, Kepler and Gallo in the outfield, along probably with Larnach. The Twins, I think, really don't want to lose anyone currently on the 40-man and would sacrifice a month of Celestino inactivity in order to keep everyone else in the organization. I guess we won't find out until we find out.

I've kinda lost track of the 40-man... is there a pressing need to open a spot?

[tarheeltwinsfan]

That's a tough break for Gilberto. I wish him a speedy and complete recovery.

[stringer bell]

37 minutes ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

I've kinda lost track of the 40-man... is there a pressing need to open a spot?

If they want to add a reliever not on the 40-man (Coulombe, Rodriquez, Sanchez, Hoffman) or need to recall a catcher, I would say.

[umterp23]

Celestino isn't on target to make the 26 man roster, destined to AAA, so there is no concern, outfield depth is already established and he really needs to play everyday at AAA.  He is break the glass emergency player and if we break the glass then our OF is in shambles and we are out of contention.  Sucks he got injured, but he has plenty of time to have an extended spring training and rehab to get back to AAA.

[Riverbrian]

12 hours ago, wsnydes said:

It'll be interesting to see how they approach him, especially if the outfield depth really has a poor spring.  With Taylor in the mix though, I'm not as worried about any of that unless a couple of other outfielders go down.

Tough break for Gilberto. He really needs to perform this year. The timing couldn't have been worse for him. He will have to come out of these 6 to 8 weeks of recovery strong... real strong. 

He has one option left and he was overmatched at the plate last season. He really needs to demonstrate 26 man worthiness for any team looking at their 26 man space next off season. He needs to demonstrate this 26 man worthiness at the AAA level because last year at the MLB level was very sub par. 

This was the last thing that Celestino needed. Larnach, Julien and Wallner should be in front of him for recall at this point. Castro, Garlick may even be ahead of him for recall at this point. 

Tough break. 

 

[wsnydes]

4 minutes ago, Riverbrian said:

Tough break for Gilberto. He really needs to perform this year. The timing couldn't have been worse for him. He will have to come out of these 6 to 8 weeks of recovery strong... real strong. 

He has one option left and he was overmatched at the plate last season. He really needs to demonstrate 26 man worthiness for any team looking at their 26 man space next off season. He needs to demonstrate this 26 man worthiness at the AAA level because last year at the MLB level was very sub par. 

This was the last thing that Celestino needed. Larnach, Julien and Wallner should be in front of him for recall at this point. Castro, Garlick may even be ahead of him for recall at this point. 

Tough break. 

 

Right.  I was thinking the same thing.  Horrible timing for him, for several reasons.  His spot on the org depth chart probably tops among them.

[Squirrel]

9 hours ago, stringer bell said:

If they want to add a reliever not on the 40-man (Coulombe, Rodriquez, Sanchez, Hoffman) or need to recall a catcher, I would say.

They can, and likely will, move Canterino to the 60-day, when they can option him to AAA. 

[stringer bell]

1 hour ago, Squirrel said:

They can, and likely will, move Canterino to the 60-day, when they can option him to AAA. 

Nuh-uh. I don’t think they can do that. If he’s optioned, he has to stay on the 40-man. They had Enlow with the same situation and optioned him, but never removed him from the 40-man, even though there was a need to make room. 

[Squirrel]

35 minutes ago, stringer bell said:

Nuh-uh. I don’t think they can do that. If he’s optioned, he has to stay on the 40-man. They had Enlow with the same situation and optioned him, but never removed him from the 40-man, even though there was a need to make room. 

I didn’t say remove him from the 40-man, but once he is on the 60-day IL that opens up a spot on the 40-man. They did that recently when they moved Lewis to the 60-day to add a RP. And Paddock is on the 60-day. Count the roster … there are 42 people, but 2 are on the 60-day. They can move Canterino to the 60-day and that opens a spot

[Squirrel]

34 minutes ago, stringer bell said:

Nuh-uh. I don’t think they can do that. If he’s optioned, he has to stay on the 40-man. They had Enlow with the same situation and optioned him, but never removed him from the 40-man, even though there was a need to make room. 

I don’t think they ever put Enlow on the 60-day last year. That’s the difference here.

[JD-TWINS]

2 hours ago, Riverbrian said:

Tough break for Gilberto. He really needs to perform this year. The timing couldn't have been worse for him. He will have to come out of these 6 to 8 weeks of recovery strong... real strong. 

He has one option left and he was overmatched at the plate last season. He really needs to demonstrate 26 man worthiness for any team looking at their 26 man space next off season. He needs to demonstrate this 26 man worthiness at the AAA level because last year at the MLB level was very sub par. 

This was the last thing that Celestino needed. Larnach, Julien and Wallner should be in front of him for recall at this point. Castro, Garlick may even be ahead of him for recall at this point. 

Tough break. 

 

Agreed - tough break! Never want to see guys get hurt and hinder their advancement chances. That said, Celestino appears to be, as you stated, maybe our 9th or 10th potential outfield option on the Big Club. No real bearing on the Twins for 2023.

[Mike Sixel]

Bummer. I hate when people get hurt. Good luck to him!

[cheeseheadgophfan]

I didn't even know you had an Ulnar Collateral Ligament in your thumb. My UCL is torn but it's in my elbow 😳

[stringer bell]

46 minutes ago, Squirrel said:

I don’t think they ever put Enlow on the 60-day last year. That’s the difference here.

They didn’t put Enlow on the 60-day IL because they didn’t want to pay him major league salary and service time. Injured players can’t be optioned and then placed on the Injured List. If the Twins choose to IL Canterino, he’ll be gaining ML service time and salary. 

[Squirrel]

25 minutes ago, stringer bell said:

They didn’t put Enlow on the 60-day IL because they didn’t want to pay him major league salary and service time. Injured players can’t be optioned and then placed on the Injured List. If the Twins choose to IL Canterino, he’ll be gaining ML service time and salary. 

They had him pitching in games before the 60-day would have been up. But even if they can’t, okay; and I get pay and service time issues, too, but they put Lewis on the 60-day so they aren’t unwilling and could with Canterino if there was good reason. All I’m suggesting is they do have this option so I’m not panicked about 40-man issues just yet. Let ST play out. They don’t need to make those decisions on non-rostered guys until the season starts. And if they add someone else not in camp it will likely come as a trade. 

[Riverbrian]

1 hour ago, JD-TWINS said:

Agreed - tough break! Never want to see guys get hurt and hinder their advancement chances. That said, Celestino appears to be, as you stated, maybe our 9th or 10th potential outfield option on the Big Club. No real bearing on the Twins for 2023.

Agreed... And therefore 2024 and beyond is also in question. 

[DocBauer]

I think we got a glimpse of what he might become in 2019, a legitimate CF who can hit, get OB some, and provides speed and some pop/power. Just a good, all around player who has the potential to be a really good 4th OF with starting potential somewhere in the OF.

But we've barely seen any of that with his being rushed straight from A ball as a 21yo who wasn't ready. And now this delay. Oof! I feel for the kid. 

From a purely baseball perspective, what he really needs is a re-set and a few months at AAA to get his game going again. This delays his start to 2023, but his designation is the same: play in AAA and get your game back on track for later in the season and for 2024 and beyond.

He's going to be delayed, but if his hand is right, he's still a future.