Souhan: Gordon is stronger and still smiling

[Seth Stohs]

Link 

Another Souhan article that's worth checking out. 

In this article regarding Nick Gordon, he leads this article with an interesting (and true) thought, "Nick Gordon's development into a valuable super-utility player became one of the highlights of the Twins' 2022 season. To reward him, they traded for two players to reduce his role."

They added Michael A. Taylor and Kyle Farmer who can be backups at multiple positions too. 

A big part of the conversation - as it usually does - goes to his weight. He noted that earlier in his career, he was playing at 185. However, his bouts with gastritis had him down to below 160 pounds. They figured it out and he got some medications to help, but he also completely changed his diet. 

Quote

"My trainer, Roger Williams, and I got after it this winter," he said. "I still deal with gastritis, but it's controllable. I have medications that control it.

"I definitely can't have dairy. I can't have spicy foods, or anything too saucy. So I eat steak, fish, chicken, and rice and beans. Mashed potatoes. Broccoli. Stuff like that."

So, what do you see Nick Gordon's role on the 2023 Twins roster? Where will he get most of his playing time? 

[CRF]

As someone who's dealt/dealing with gastritis, I can tell you first hand what he's going through. It can really mess with your body, and it's extremely difficult to control. It affects you each and every day, and you have to be completely diligent about it. The meds themselves can cause problems too. He seems to have a handle on it and I wish him the very best of luck. He proved how valuable he can be last season and I hope he gets to show that value again this season. I think he could fill in anywhere in the infield or outfield, and be an asset. I hope he continues to get playing time. 

[Riverbrian]

6 hours ago, Seth Stohs said:

To reward him, they traded for two players to reduce his role."

They added Michael A. Taylor and Kyle Farmer who can be backups at multiple positions too. 

If the Twins reward Gordon with bench time while they elevate the crew below above him before the season has even started.

The Twins should just cut him because the Twins don't believe in Nick and he needs to play for a club that will give him an actual chance. 

2022:

Gordon OPS+ 113

Farmer OPS+ 90

Taylor OPS+ 90

Kepler OPS+ 93

Kirilloff OPS+ 88

Gallo OPS+ 79

[MABB1959]

Another first round pick and they could not develop him into more than a bench player and then get two more "okay" if even that to take his spot?  I too wish they would trade him to a better team that would give him a chance.  It's almost like they are afraid to develop their top picks because they may have to pay them someday.

[Doctor Gast]

Good question Seth. IMO he won't see very many LHPs if any, but he should see plenty of RHPs in the OF or at DH. How much will depend on how well Kiriloff & Larnach progress. If Gallo starts 1B, that frees up some in the corner OF. One way or another if Gordon beats out Larnach that'll free up time at DH. If Buxton isn't playing CF against RHPs, Gordon should face the lion share of them. If Kepler & or Gallo are traded later in the season that's more time. I don't see Gordon playing any INF.

Gordon had proven  himself very valuable to the Twins last season. IMO he still has more upside and deserves to be played as much as possible as a LH bat. I, for one wouldn't want to see Gordon traded.

[Dman]

1 hour ago, Riverbrian said:

If the Twins reward Gordon with bench time while they elevate the crew below above him before the season has even started.

The Twins should just cut him because the Twins don't believe in Nick and he needs to play for a club that will give him an actual chance. 

2022:

Gordon OPS+ 113

Farmer OPS+ 90

Taylor OPS+ 90

Kepler OPS+ 93

Kirilloff OPS+ 88

Gallo OPS+ 79

You need a bit more context there as Gordons OPS+ versus Lefties is 53.  Both Farmer 163 OPS+ and Taylor 90 OPS+ are better against lefties and that was the main reason they were brought in.  Kepler's splits are pretty even and he plays excellent D in right field.  Gallo was useless against lefties last year with a 27 OPS+.  He was much better in 2021 and his 129 OPS+ against righties was OK but if he can't improve in lefty on lefty matchups he needs to be eliminated when Lefties pitch.

That being said I don't completely disagree with you.  I don't see a ton of room for Gordon this year but injuries could change that.  Gallo will be gone next year and Kepler might be as well.  Taylor might not be back. Things could open up for Nick just hard to say how it all plays out.. Otherwise I agree they should trade him.  He is a good contact hitter and super utility player that can even cover centerfield.  Lot's of teams would value that.

[chpettit19]

I like what the Twins have done here. They have a bunch of options and aren't relying on just a starting 9 being good everyday. Gordon is going to get plenty of PAs. So will Gallo, Larnach, Kepler, Kirilloff, Taylor, Farmer, and the rest of the non-Buxton and Correa players. Arraez had 603 PAs last year, Garlick had 162, Gio Urshela had 551, Jake Cave had 177, Celestino had 347, Palacios had 77, Sano 71, Contreras 61, Beckham 25, Hamilton 8, and Sanchez some DH PAs. That's basically 2100 PAs that aren't on the roster anymore. 

The Twins had 6113 PAs last year. I hope they're scoring a little more than last year so I'm going to up that a tiny amount to 6150 to also give us an easier number to work with. I think the following PA numbers are reasonable, but you can feel free to disagree.

Correa: 620
Miranda: 600
Kepler: 500
Gallo: 500
Polanco: 500
Kirilloff: 500
Larnach: 500
Vazquez: 475
Gordon: 450
Buxton: 450
Taylor: 400
Jeffers: 300
Farmer: 300
Total: 6095
Still have 55 PAs to spread amongst them.

Injuries, and/or poor performance, will obviously adjust those numbers. Those are more of the "perfect world" numbers. But Gordon's ability to play a bunch of positions will give him the opportunity to eat up some of those 55 leftover PAs and some of the injury/poor performance PAs. The rest obviously going to Lewis and the rest of the guys on the farm. I just think we're making too big of a deal of them bringing in other guys and him losing PAs. He had 443 PAs last year. I see no reason to believe he can't/won't get that again this year if he's performing. 

 

[nicksaviking]

Seems to me that Gordon's weight isn't holding him back so much as his plate discipline. He'll be way too inconsistent if he keeps that 4.3 BB%. That's what he needs to work on.

[farmerguychris]

I wouldn't sweat the comment about trading for 2 more players who would reduce his role - that is exactly what they should have done!  When you carry 13 pitchers you MUST have as many bench players who can play as many roles as possible!  I think with our current expected bench we have backups who will all likely get 400 plate appearances without much drop off in the field.  I like the direction they went - can't Farmer even play catcher if needed!  Thats perfect.

 

[Nashvilletwin]

Gordon was probably the number one spark plug on this team through the late mid-season doldrums last season, Against righties, he should be our starting LF over Kepler or Larnach until someone beats him out for that job.

[4twinsJA]

I would not say Twins added players to reduce Gordon's role, more that they acknowledge Twin's need better depth than they have had. Hard to be competitive running out- Cave, Beckham, Contreras, Billy Hamilton to play on a consistent basis due to injuries.  Now Twins have Buxton, Kepler, Gallo, Kirilloff, Taylor, Gordon, Larnach, with Wallner and Celestino at AAA in  case of multiple injuries. I am sure we will see plenty of Gordon this year.

[Parfigliano]

4 hours ago, chpettit19 said:

I like what the Twins have done here. They have a bunch of options and aren't relying on just a starting 9 being good everyday. Gordon is going to get plenty of PAs. So will Gallo, Larnach, Kepler, Kirilloff, Taylor, Farmer, and the rest of the non-Buxton and Correa players. Arraez had 603 PAs last year, Garlick had 162, Gio Urshela had 551, Jake Cave had 177, Celestino had 347, Palacios had 77, Sano 71, Contreras 61, Beckham 25, Hamilton 8, and Sanchez some DH PAs. That's basically 2100 PAs that aren't on the roster anymore. 

The Twins had 6113 PAs last year. I hope they're scoring a little more than last year so I'm going to up that a tiny amount to 6150 to also give us an easier number to work with. I think the following PA numbers are reasonable, but you can feel free to disagree.

Correa: 620
Miranda: 600
Kepler: 500
Gallo: 500
Polanco: 500
Kirilloff: 500
Larnach: 500
Vazquez: 475
Gordon: 450
Buxton: 450
Taylor: 400
Jeffers: 300
Farmer: 300
Total: 6095
Still have 55 PAs to spread amongst them.

Injuries, and/or poor performance, will obviously adjust those numbers. Those are more of the "perfect world" numbers. But Gordon's ability to play a bunch of positions will give him the opportunity to eat up some of those 55 leftover PAs and some of the injury/poor performance PAs. The rest obviously going to Lewis and the rest of the guys on the farm. I just think we're making too big of a deal of them bringing in other guys and him losing PAs. He had 443 PAs last year. I see no reason to believe he can't/won't get that again this year if he's performing. 

 

You remined me about Beckham.  I was happier when he was forgotten.

[LA VIkes Fan]

5 hours ago, chpettit19 said:

I like what the Twins have done here. They have a bunch of options and aren't relying on just a starting 9 being good everyday. Gordon is going to get plenty of PAs. So will Gallo, Larnach, Kepler, Kirilloff, Taylor, Farmer, and the rest of the non-Buxton and Correa players. Arraez had 603 PAs last year, Garlick had 162, Gio Urshela had 551, Jake Cave had 177, Celestino had 347, Palacios had 77, Sano 71, Contreras 61, Beckham 25, Hamilton 8, and Sanchez some DH PAs. That's basically 2100 PAs that aren't on the roster anymore. 

The Twins had 6113 PAs last year. I hope they're scoring a little more than last year so I'm going to up that a tiny amount to 6150 to also give us an easier number to work with. I think the following PA numbers are reasonable, but you can feel free to disagree.

Correa: 620
Miranda: 600
Kepler: 500
Gallo: 500
Polanco: 500
Kirilloff: 500
Larnach: 500
Vazquez: 475
Gordon: 450
Buxton: 450
Taylor: 400
Jeffers: 300
Farmer: 300
Total: 6095
Still have 55 PAs to spread amongst them.

Injuries, and/or poor performance, will obviously adjust those numbers. Those are more of the "perfect world" numbers. But Gordon's ability to play a bunch of positions will give him the opportunity to eat up some of those 55 leftover PAs and some of the injury/poor performance PAs. The rest obviously going to Lewis and the rest of the guys on the farm. I just think we're making too big of a deal of them bringing in other guys and him losing PAs. He had 443 PAs last year. I see no reason to believe he can't/won't get that again this year if he's performing. 

 

This is the answer. Gordon should get 400-450 ABs this year. If he plays like he did last year, he will get more. I frankly would like to see them trade Kepler and give LF to Gordon and i think that might have been the initial plan. Unfortunately, Kepler turned out to have a limited market. I still would not be surprised by a trade of one of our OFs by or before mid-season.  

Bottom line, Gordon needs to back up last year with a similar year. If he does, he's the strong side of an OF platoon with the chance to be more as he learns to hit LH pitching. If he doesn't, maybe last year was a mirage. In any event, he will get plenty of playing time against RH pitching to show what he can do. He can't ask for more than that. I, for one, am betting on him. I think he is the starting LF on the 2024 Twins.   

[jmlease1]

13 hours ago, Seth Stohs said:

Link 

Another Souhan article that's worth checking out. 

In this article regarding Nick Gordon, he leads this article with an interesting (and true) thought, "Nick Gordon's development into a valuable super-utility player became one of the highlights of the Twins' 2022 season. To reward him, they traded for two players to reduce his role."

They added Michael A. Taylor and Kyle Farmer who can be backups at multiple positions too. 

A big part of the conversation - as it usually does - goes to his weight. He noted that earlier in his career, he was playing at 185. However, his bouts with gastritis had him down to below 160 pounds. They figured it out and he got some medications to help, but he also completely changed his diet. 

So, what do you see Nick Gordon's role on the 2023 Twins roster? Where will he get most of his playing time? 

Souhan is the worst. A consistently bad hack who approaches almost every article with the angle predetermined. He's one of the most skippable writers in the Twin Cities.

the two backups referenced as "reducing his role" are both right-handed. Much more likely they're not going to run Gordon out against LHP pitching any longer now that they have actual options, since he's terrible at hitting LHP. not that i would expect souhan to pay attention to that...

[Doctor Gast]

5 hours ago, Dman said:

You need a bit more context there as Gordons OPS+ versus Lefties is 53.  Both Farmer 163 OPS+ and Taylor 90 OPS+ are better against lefties and that was the main reason they were brought in.  Kepler's splits are pretty even and he plays excellent D in right field.  Gallo was useless against lefties last year with a 27 OPS+.  He was much better in 2021 and his 129 OPS+ against righties was OK but if he can't improve in lefty on lefty matchups he needs to be eliminated when Lefties pitch.

That being said I don't completely disagree with you.  I don't see a ton of room for Gordon this year but injuries could change that.  Gallo will be gone next year and Kepler might be as well.  Taylor might not be back. Things could open up for Nick just hard to say how it all plays out.. Otherwise I agree they should trade him.  He is a good contact hitter and super utility player that can even cover centerfield.  Lot's of teams would value that.

LH bats are a premium. Most likely as you say Gallo, Kepler & Taylor will be gone next year, who'll we have especially for LH OF bats? Larnach & Kiriloff? they still need to prove they can stay healthy and most likely they'll like to keep Kiriloff at 1B. Wallner has a lot of raw talent, which hasn't converted yet in the OF & he SO a lot. And which LH bat OFer that can spell Buxton in CF against RHPs? Right now Gordon is our most reliable LH OF bat for next year. Any team will  value that but the Twins should value that the most because we'll most likely not get what he's worth and we'll create a hole where we were strong.

[Major League Ready]

Am I the only one hoping Larnach is good enough to keep Gordon in a back-up role?

[Doctor Gast]

The article said Gordon is stronger, compounded with he'll be used primarily batting against RHPs, I predict his OPS will be well over .800. Plus his greatest concentration of outs were GBs to the right side, IMO the ban will help his BA. 

IMO Gordon is a type of player once he catches on fire, they'll never be able to contain him. IMO that'll happen.

[Doctor Gast]

21 minutes ago, Major League Ready said:

Am I the only one hoping Larnach is good enough to keep Gordon in a back-up role?

I'm rooting for both, not one over the other. I love Larnach bat but Gordon has proved that he can stay healthy, has a good glove & produce. Larnach has not. Things can change

[DocBauer]

Just have to object to a lot of the context in that article. And that means I'm echoing a lot of similar thoughts. 

First, I would absolutely love to see everyone healthy all year and producing so it would, indeed, actually be hard to find ABs for Gordon. But all know that's not going to happen, even with good team health.

The bats they added in Taylor and Farmer are RH and Gordon his LH. Souhan doesn't know this? Sheesh! Further, despite adding 2 new ballplayers, they are also minus a handful of players,  2 infielders and an OF destined for AAA. So where exactly is this determined roster crunch against Gordon?

I think he plays an important and versatile role for the team this year, but total ABs are hard to predict for anyone. I like the idea of at least trying him at 3B in ST to see if he's at least passable there to increase his versatility even more. And I'd like him to work a little more on his base running as well. He looked much better in 2021, both running in general and stealing bases, than he did in 2022. It seemed he was almost too aggressive last year, sliding past bases, etc.

But there's going to be plenty of opportunity for him this season.

[Nine of twelve]

Look at it this way: He can more than hold his own at the plate and he is satisfactory or better at playing 6 positions. Additionally, he is approaching his prime in good health after having health-related challenges in the past that are now being optimally managed. Every team would be thrilled to have such a player. There is no question that he should be on the major league roster getting regular playing time (spread around at various positions). He is a very valuable player and should receive playing time as such and a contract as such. 

[Major League Ready]

2 hours ago, Doctor Gast said:

I'm rooting for both, not one over the other. I love Larnach bat but Gordon has proved that he can stay healthy, has a good glove & produce. Larnach has not. Things can change

Me too.  The angle I was coming from is that I believe Larnach has a higher ceiling.  I am rooting for Gordon to be even better this year but Larnach even better than Gordon's "better".

[Linus]

There are about 150 posters here that know more about baseball than Souhan. I just want the best players to play. If that’s Nick great or Larnach or Gallo or Kep. Just don’t run anybody out there that ain’t cutting it. 

[TaterTot]

I say that he is the go to guy when Buxton or anyone in the outfield needs a day off. Kirillof might see a few starts in left or right, but looks more primed for first. Don’t think Gordon will see anytime in the infield with Solano now on the team though.

[Otwins]

Seems like many posters are overlooking that we do not have a DH this year. Gordon will get plenty of AB's as we rotate at DH. The acquisitions this spring should only reduce Gordon's Ab's versus left-handed pitching. Seems fine to me. 

[wabene]

I get my baseball knowledge and in particular Twins knowledge from many sources. Here, the Strib, the Athletic for print and all good (the Strib is propped up by Phil Miller. And listening to Gleeman and the Geek (the best), Locked on Twins (some good stuff wrapped in an annoying package the "Locked On" format), Daily Delivery and yes Souhan's Chin Music with Souhan, Roy Smalley and LEN111. Listening to Chin Music yesterday I was once again struck by how little actual detailed info these three had. Add Reusse into that mix. Reusse just picks a few people to call tare-bull and yammers on looking for shock value.

I don't think I spend too much of my time with this, my wife may argue that, but aren't these guys professionals? Maybe back in the day when the average fan had little access to data they could get away with it. Were we all misinformed then, lol? Listening to an esteemed baseball man like Smalley go on about Duran's slider I'm shaking my head yelling "it's a freaking curve ball" at my windshield. Lol.  

Edit: Oops and last, but certainly not least, Mr Froemming! 

 

 

 

 

[Richie the Rally Goat]

On 2/21/2023 at 12:38 AM, Seth Stohs said:

Link 

Another Souhan article that's worth checking out. 

In this article regarding Nick Gordon, he leads this article with an interesting (and true) thought, "Nick Gordon's development into a valuable super-utility player became one of the highlights of the Twins' 2022 season. To reward him, they traded for two players to reduce his role."

They added Michael A. Taylor and Kyle Farmer who can be backups at multiple positions too. 

A big part of the conversation - as it usually does - goes to his weight. He noted that earlier in his career, he was playing at 185. However, his bouts with gastritis had him down to below 160 pounds. They figured it out and he got some medications to help, but he also completely changed his diet. 

So, what do you see Nick Gordon's role on the 2023 Twins roster? Where will he get most of his playing time? 

Starting Left Fielder as he beats out Joey Gallo for playing time

[TaterTot]

11 hours ago, Otwins said:

Seems like many posters are overlooking that we do not have a DH this year. Gordon will get plenty of AB's as we rotate at DH. The acquisitions this spring should only reduce Gordon's Ab's versus left-handed pitching. Seems fine to me. 

Well, with all the players on the 40 man, I think the only way we are going to get anyone besides the core players, like Corea, Buxton, Miranda etc, consistent playing time is to have a rotational DH spot. 

Edited February 22, 2023 by TaterTot
Forgot to add something

[Squirrel]

On 2/22/2023 at 9:32 AM, Richie the Rally Goat said:

Starting Left Fielder as he beats out Joey Gallo for playing time

I saw some of practice today … in LF were Gallo and Larnach and Gordon was at 2nd base. A different day Gallo was taking reps at 1st base. Pretty sure they are going to have players ready to go at many positions.