Neal: Twins and Scott Boras

[Seth Stohs]

I truly have about 2 pages of an article on the Twins and their evolving relationship with Scott Boras... I've been sitting on it for a couple of weeks, wanting to find time to finish it. Uggh!

Well, in Sunday's Star-Tribune, columnist LaVelle E Neal has a long-form article on the Twins and their relationship with Scott Boras. 

https://www.startribune.com/twins-scott-boras-carlos-correa-baseball-agent-clients-derek-falvey-terry-ryan-la-velle-e-neal-iii/600250921/ 

The concept I was going for was that they used to talk about avoiding Boras clients, except in certain situations (like Kenny Rogers being available late in the offseason, or Kendrys Morales still being available after the draft). 

It is interesting to see that the current roster includes many Boras clients including Carlos Correa, Royce Lewis, Austin Martin, Joey Gallo, Ryan Jeffers, Alex Kirilloff, and Chris Paddack. It was Paddack signing a team-friendly-due-to-injury deal that made me think through a potential article... Neal also notes that Nick Gordon, Kenta Maeda and newcomer Jose De Leon are all Boras clients too. 

Anyway, interesting article from LaVelle for you to read through and discuss...

Lesson Learned... finish the article, get it posted! 

 

 

 

[Parfigliano]

29 minutes ago, Seth Stohs said:

I truly have about 2 pages of an article on the Twins and their evolving relationship with Scott Boras... I've been sitting on it for a couple of weeks, wanting to find time to finish it. Uggh!

Well, in Sunday's Star-Tribune, columnist LaVelle E Neal has a long-form article on the Twins and their relationship with Scott Boras. 

https://www.startribune.com/twins-scott-boras-carlos-correa-baseball-agent-clients-derek-falvey-terry-ryan-la-velle-e-neal-iii/600250921/ 

The concept I was going for was that they used to talk about avoiding Boras clients, except in certain situations (like Kenny Rogers being available late in the offseason, or Kendrys Morales still being available after the draft). 

It is interesting to see that the current roster includes many Boras clients including Carlos Correa, Royce Lewis, Austin Martin, Joey Gallo, Ryan Jeffers, Alex Kirilloff, and Chris Paddack. It was Paddack signing a team-friendly-due-to-injury deal that made me think through a potential article... Neal also notes that Nick Gordon, Kenta Maeda and newcomer Jose De Leon are all Boras clients too. 

Anyway, interesting article from LaVelle for you to read through and discuss...

Lesson Learned... finish the article, get it posted! 

 

 

 

Dont get the Strib.  Anybody care to shortly summarize?

[Squirrel]

3 minutes ago, Parfigliano said:

Dont get the Strib.  Anybody care to shortly summarize?

Maybe @Seth Stohs could still write his article for those of us who don’t get the STrib.

[ashbury]

Change your passwords, Seth.  LEN3 clearly has installed some kind of spyware on your computer!

[Seth Stohs]

I just opened it up again... I noticed I hadn't worked on it since January 15th. Oops!  Here is how far I was. Ignore the need for editing. It's all part of my process. 

 

asdfasdfa  (This was for the title which I hadn't thought up yet). 

Terry Ryan wasn’t afraid of agent Scott Boras, but the reality was that the Twins often shied away from Boras clients. Obviously in the Metrodome days, it was mostly due to simple economics. 

The Dome is a stadium that we all have many memories of, both good and bad, I’m sure. The Twins were truly a small-market team. In 2010, the team moved into Target Field and soon had a new TV deal with Bally Sports North (or was it FSN then?). Since that time, the Twins have rightfully referred to themselves as a mid-market team.

Generally speaking, the Twins rank around 22nd of the 30 teams in revenues (estimated, of course, because team’s books aren’t open to the public). In recent years, their payroll has ranked in the 16th to 20th range. I’m comfortable with that as a fan. 

But the Twins will not (and from a business-side should not) try to match payrolls with the Mets, Yankees, Dodgers and others over $220 million. And that is often the range where the many of Scott Boras’s clients find themselves. 

And maybe it took special circumstances, but the past two offseasons, the Twins signed one of the top free agents on the market, Carlos Correa. 

A year ago, Correa switched his representation. His previous agency was about to lose its certification from MLB, so Correa joined the Boras Corporation. With the lockout a year ago, and the quick turnaround to spring training, teams just weren’t going to commit to the $300 million that they may have needed to. So, Boras got creative and reached out to the Twins. The two sides surprised the baseball world when they agreed to a three-year, $105 million contract. 

The deal came with an opt-out clause. We knew he would take the opt-out and he did. You all know the story at this point. Turner and Bogaerts get more than expected, pushing Correa’s value up. Giants offer 13-years, $350 million, but then opt out due to the physical. 12 hours later, the Mets agreed to a 12-year, $315 million deal. Three weeks later, concerns about the physical, and the Twins swoop in. And, as you know, last week they signed him to a six-year, $200 million deal with options that could push it to 10 years and $270 million.

That brings us to today, but we also have to realize that beyond dollars and sense, the Twins ability to develop a positive relationship with Scott Boras has played a huge role in this as well. 

That isn’t to say that the Twins had a bad relationship with Boras in the past. There just were very few free agent opportunities.The Ryan/Smith regimes drafted Boras clients including Jeff Manship, Matthew Fox and Ryan Eades. They also were able to sign veteran lefty Kenny Rogers late in the 2003 offseason. They signed Kendrys Morales after the draft one year to avoid losing a draft pick. They also signed Mike Pelfrey to a couple of contracts earlier this decade. 

There was always a lot of respect between Terry Ryan and Scott Boras, but few deals, and only certain types of deals (meaning, not too expensive). 

“Minnesota is the Land of 10,000 Lakes and right now they're fishing in the ocean," said Boras.  

 

[Richie the Rally Goat]

10 hours ago, Seth Stohs said:

I just opened it up again... I noticed I hadn't worked on it since January 15th. Oops!  Here is how far I was. Ignore the need for editing. It's all part of my process. 

 

asdfasdfa  (This was for the title which I hadn't thought up yet). 

Terry Ryan wasn’t afraid of agent Scott Boras, but the reality was that the Twins often shied away from Boras clients. Obviously in the Metrodome days, it was mostly due to simple economics. 

The Dome is a stadium that we all have many memories of, both good and bad, I’m sure. The Twins were truly a small-market team. In 2010, the team moved into Target Field and soon had a new TV deal with Bally Sports North (or was it FSN then?). Since that time, the Twins have rightfully referred to themselves as a mid-market team.

Generally speaking, the Twins rank around 22nd of the 30 teams in revenues (estimated, of course, because team’s books aren’t open to the public). In recent years, their payroll has ranked in the 16th to 20th range. I’m comfortable with that as a fan. 

But the Twins will not (and from a business-side should not) try to match payrolls with the Mets, Yankees, Dodgers and others over $220 million. And that is often the range where the many of Scott Boras’s clients find themselves. 

And maybe it took special circumstances, but the past two offseasons, the Twins signed one of the top free agents on the market, Carlos Correa. 

A year ago, Correa switched his representation. His previous agency was about to lose its certification from MLB, so Correa joined the Boras Corporation. With the lockout a year ago, and the quick turnaround to spring training, teams just weren’t going to commit to the $300 million that they may have needed to. So, Boras got creative and reached out to the Twins. The two sides surprised the baseball world when they agreed to a three-year, $105 million contract. 

The deal came with an opt-out clause. We knew he would take the opt-out and he did. You all know the story at this point. Turner and Bogaerts get more than expected, pushing Correa’s value up. Giants offer 13-years, $350 million, but then opt out due to the physical. 12 hours later, the Mets agreed to a 12-year, $315 million deal. Three weeks later, concerns about the physical, and the Twins swoop in. And, as you know, last week they signed him to a six-year, $200 million deal with options that could push it to 10 years and $270 million.

That brings us to today, but we also have to realize that beyond dollars and sense, the Twins ability to develop a positive relationship with Scott Boras has played a huge role in this as well. 

That isn’t to say that the Twins had a bad relationship with Boras in the past. There just were very few free agent opportunities.The Ryan/Smith regimes drafted Boras clients including Jeff Manship, Matthew Fox and Ryan Eades. They also were able to sign veteran lefty Kenny Rogers late in the 2003 offseason. They signed Kendrys Morales after the draft one year to avoid losing a draft pick. They also signed Mike Pelfrey to a couple of contracts earlier this decade. 

There was always a lot of respect between Terry Ryan and Scott Boras, but few deals, and only certain types of deals (meaning, not too expensive). 

“Minnesota is the Land of 10,000 Lakes and right now they're fishing in the ocean," said Boras.  

 

I like where you are going Seth. The Twins’ position in the market changed.

Not a Strib subscriber…. The FO changed, who have a different perspective and prerogative than the Ryan regime.

Does the Free Agent market itself have an influence to some of the work with Boras’ clients too? The disparity between the top end payrolls and the bottom has never been greater, also with the players. Does that facilitate different contract structures? I don’t know how to search it, but Buxton and Correa have historically odd contracts. Is Boras (or certain agents) more open minded on the cash-grab?

[theBOMisthebomb]

It's always felt wrong that one agent would have so much impact on the sport. 

[ChermesZ]

1 hour ago, theBOMisthebomb said:

It's always felt wrong that one agent would have so much impact on the sport. 

He seems quite involved in CBA talks as well.

[Parfigliano]

6 minutes ago, ChermesZ said:

He seems quite involved in CBA talks as well.

Of course.  Making sure the top guys (his clients) get the best outcome.  And pro-actively working to ensure that up and coming stars (his clients) get the best too.  

Basically doing what an agent should do.

[Doctor Gast]

Boras is a very shrewd fellow. Myself preferred the Twins not do business with Boras. And I have been very frustrated with this FO not having the ability to initiate & close a big deal.

  But the lock out year the Twins were having a very difficult time to find a respectable SS & Story negotiations wasn't going anywhere. Boras came in & saved our buts (&theirs too) with a creative deal, not only last year but also this year. Since then I've noticed that this FO is doing a better job negotiating (they are still IMO making some bonehead moves). I don't know if they are getting advice from Boras or Correa or they are they are picking up some stuff from Boras or all 3. The creative deals that this FO said that they offered Correa didn't seem creative at all. But my hope that this FO will start to think outside the box which has been very difficult them to do in the past.

No matter the Twins are going in the right direction thanks to this FO relationship with Boras. Boras's influence with some high profile players could also prove to be very beneficial. Thank you Seth for this interesting topic when things are starting to get boring.

[ashbury]

1 hour ago, Parfigliano said:

Basically doing what an agent should do.

This sums it up for me.  I truly don't get the angst I see everywhere about the man.  The athletes hire him, not the other way around, and he's not some Svengali who lures players to do things against their own interests.  For those who worship at the altar of free markets, he should be their high priest.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

I would just assume that Boras is in it for himself, first and foremost. Then second, he's in it for his clients. By this point, a high profile client who hires Boras knows exactly what the game is.   

In my opinion, as it pertains to Correa, the Twins glass is half empty. Either the Twins will be vastly overpaying for a less mobile Correa at SS or Correa as 3B/DH before those six years is up, or they will be losing the opportunity to see either Lewis or Lee play shortstop just as good for a fraction of Correa's salary. Just one person's opinion. 

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Seth knows much more about baseball than LaVelle and is a much harder worker. :) 

The Twins relationship with Boras could be an interesting subject, for sure. LaVelle's column kind of follows the formula of: 1. Sign Boras's players,... 2. ??? ... 3. Profit! but I think there's much richer subject matter to explore. 

LaVelle also uses the Houston Astros as a lead-in for how to build a World Series contender, which is kind of a double-edged sword given the many, many issues the Astros have had with off the field stuff. 

[Shaitan]

I think people naturally associate Boras with the "rock stars." But the truth is that he works with players of all skill sets and experience. Many names listed in the article are still on rookie contracts.

I am curious how many clients he has, and if it's just Boras representing players, or a team (like how law firms typically operate).

It seems like he's referenced when he's some kind of monolith when I suspect he's more of a company.

[wsnydes]

17 hours ago, ashbury said:

Change your passwords, Seth.  LEN3 clearly has installed some kind of spyware on your computer!

1-2-3-4-6...

... already used 1-2-3-4-5

[Cris E]

2 hours ago, Shaitan said:

I think people naturally associate Boras with the "rock stars." But the truth is that he works with players of all skill sets and experience. Many names listed in the article are still on rookie contracts.

I am curious how many clients he has, and if it's just Boras representing players, or a team (like how law firms typically operate).

It seems like he's referenced when he's some kind of monolith when I suspect he's more of a company.

I was about to post something just like this.  Scott Boras used to be Scott Boras and now he's referred to as The Boras Corporation.  There are a lot of people being represented by his organization, not just stars and not just to polish Scott's ego.  Depending on where they are in their careers that corporation gets guys re-signed quickly, max money, max guaranteed years, etc. (Does anyone really think Scott Boras did or will spend more than a couple hours on José DeLeón's contract?) He's in a position now to not have to play games that might have cost Freddie Freeman the chance to finish his career in Atlanta, for example. Players sign with him because he can do whatever they need done.   Boras has changed at least as much as the Twins. (But the slick move he pulled on Correa's previous rep with the one year deal in 2022 was deceivious beyond belief. Wow, he can still wield a knife when needed.)

[Jocko87]

Being close with someone who can move the needle is always a good idea.

I do believe the Correa situation has the potential to change the small market teams thought process significantly.  If I were say, the Brewers, I would call Boras and ask that he please keep me in mind the next time you need a one year spot for a stud.  I'd pay high AAV for a year for the chance to recruit/evaluate a big time free agent.  If we click, I'm willing to pay up.  Not interested in the Gallo type for this, slightly interested in a Bellinger type but mainly looking for someone at Correa level at a minimum.  Every year or two there will be a stud in an awkward situation and I'm OK with being used.  Worst case they move on with no compensation but more likely you flip them at the deadline for a good haul if its obvious he wont sign.  If it was Master P doing the Correa thing I wouldn't give it a second thought.  The fact it was Boras tells me the needle moves.  There are a bunch of teams going to school on the Twins right now.

It will also be interesting to watch his relationships with the big money teams, especially the Mets.  I want to give credit where its due and Boras may have been the only guy who could have saved Correa from the Mets.  He did step into the trap but was savvy enough to get out with minimum damage.  Boras is obviously pissed but can't say anything publicly.  He likes to deal directly with owners but he is re-calibrating with Cohen.  Hedge fund tactics have been rare in sports but Cohen is a different cat.   Kumar Rocker was a similar situation. 

[Trov]

I see no point in avoiding the top agent in the game.  That shuts you out of potential talks with guys.  You just need to know who he is and how he tries to fight for his clients.  Clients sign with him because he generally gets them the most money, or very high amounts.  He knows how to work teams and play games with the CBA to convince teams to make deals.  He also knows how to work the media to try to get more money for his clients.  He will leak things like teams showing interest in a player when maybe that interest is not too strong or even there.  Sometimes it will get teams to bid against themselves.  

I think for most part what teams have not liked with Borras is they will never get team friendly extensions, unless there are clear questions on that player.  Borras will always have his players test the market and reject QO.  He knows what he is doing, and always seeking top dollars for even guys that may not be top talent. 

I read he has huge binders on each player to show where their value is.  He scouts his talent just as much as teams do. 

[Bigfork Twins Guy]

Sorry to hear that you got scooped Seth, but I liked your version better.

My take is that the Twins have made in roads with Boras and that is a good thing.  A lot of people do not like Boras, but I believe that he and our FO have always been very honest with each other and if you ask anybody who does negotiations, they'll always tell you that they enjoy negotiating with honest people.

Keep nurturing that relationship with Boras and more good will come from it.

[SkyBlueWaters]

 

LEN3 began his column this way:  

"Now that they have taken their relationship with super agent Scott Boras to another level, one thing is certain:  The Twins are on a path to the World Series."

I found that a bit optimistic. But hey, spring is coming. I suppose it's the time for optimism.

P.s. In '19 I went to Fla to see a few games. The wife and I were walking the beach in Ft. Myers one pleasant night and stopped at an outdoor cabana where a woman was wailing to her friend, "I don't wanna go back! I don't wanna go!" Heard her tell the bartender she had a ticket to MSP. Even in March, we can deal with hard truths.