Are Twins' Third Base Plans for Jose Miranda a Misstep?

[Alex Boxwell]

What is best for Jose Miranda’s development? It’s not having him focus on making inadequate tools below average and limiting his power potential.

Image courtesy of © David Richard-USA TODAY Sports

We have a sound bite of the year candidate already. When asked about Jose Miranda recently, Carlos Correa declared, “Oh, he looks sexy.” 

There is much to be excited about regarding the likely five-hole hitter in the Twins lineup. The big one: the guy flat-out hits. After his early season demotion, Miranda returned and showed everything we expected after his breakout campaign in 2021. He hit for power, drove in runs, handled the bat with two strikes, and, most importantly, he put his struggles in the review mirror quickly. He’s a bat-first prospect starting to cement himself as a run producer in a good lineup. 

After showing huge upside, it appears the plan inside the organization is to trim him down and move him to third base long-term. I love his skill set at the plate, but I’m not sure this is the best move for Miranda or the Twins.

Miranda could have graded better as a defender, with well below average arm strength according to baseball savant and below average range. That information is readily available with one google search, what is our logic in limiting his power potential by trimming him down and trying to put a round peg in a square hole..? 

I’m genuinely asking because I don’t quite get this move, and I don’t understand how many widely accept it. The bat will make Jose great, and sacrificing a potential 30-homer, 100+ RBI guy’s pop to play (likely) bad third base doesn’t jive with me.

I could get behind Miranda being the stop-gap for the Royce Lewis return or the unlikely Brooks Lee sighting at third on a post-season team. Lee is a great player and will be great for us one day, but a mid-season call ups in a pennant race is hardly a move to rely on. 

That being said, if Miranda is the stop-gap, why are we trying to make him quicker and more streamlined? I want the focus to be on his development into a true four or five-hitter on any lineup in the big leagues because he’s that good of a run producer. He doesn’t have much swing and miss to his game either, especially by today’s standard, very rare for a run producer. 

The Miranda move is not as egregious as putting Miguel Sano in right field. That was an actual fish-out-of-water scenario. However, this course of action can dampen what Jose does well and put him in a position where he is not likely to succeed based on the available metrics.

The unfortunate reality is that if the Twins make no other offensive moves this offseason, which is unlikely, the roster seems a tad unfinished. The man for the job was Gio Urshella. A solid stop-gap for Lewis to rehab or Lee to be inserted when he’s ready rather than making him fit for the team’s timeline and mess with his development/service clock. It’s the one move that isn’t making sense. It’s Derek Falvey’s and Thad Levine’s one sore thumb this off-season that doesn’t quite add up.

There’s always a plan. All signs point to one or maybe two more moves on the offensive side. One thing I don’t want to see is us limiting Miranda’s offensive ceiling, his calling card as a player, to see him not have success at third base, along with no real future there. He’s a great player, and I hope he stays a Twin for a long time, but he’s a first baseman/DH. 

If no other moves are made, I hope he proves me wrong, plays replacement-level hot corner, and doesn’t lose any power. Bigger isn’t always better, but slimmer isn’t always quicker. The sexiest thing Jose Miranda can do this year is hit .270+ with 30 homers and 100 RBI, regardless of where he plays or what he looks like.

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[Fire Dan Gladden]

As I have stated elsewhere, the Miranda risk was mitigated when Correa came back with Farmer already in the fold.

I am ok with giving Miranda a chance to hold down that position.  On offense, he still needs to prove it by having a decent sophomore season.  There are many fallbacks if Miranda fails.  Beyond Farmer, you have Gallo (100 games at 3B) and Gordon, along with any of the young infielders looking make their name.

[Nashvilletwin]

Well, it is an unpopular position on the TD, but, yes, in hindsight with us moving on from Arraez, our best lineup would have had Urshela at 3B and Miranda at 1B (and Farmer at utility!). If Kiriloff is indeed healthy, we could have skipped the entire Gallo thing and had him play OF/DH with Buxton, Gordon, Larnach, Kepler and Taylor. 

But that ship has sailed.  It looks like Miranda gets 3B to at least start the year.  But 1B looks like more of a long-term better fit for two reasons: 1) his defensive upside is probably higher at 1B and 2) we have two other players coming up better suited for 3B (Lewis or Lee).

We shall see how things play out this year (including with Polanco), but I must admit I’m salivating over an infield/DH mix of Lewis, Correa, Lee, Miranda and Julien. All five of those players starting in ‘24 should be in the lineup essentially everyday and batting in the top six of the lineup with Buxton.
 

 

 

[Major League Ready]

Why would we assume he merely lost weight.  What if he replaced fat with muscle?  Couldn't he be leaner and meaner?  

[Alex Boxwell]

1 hour ago, Nashvilletwin said:

Well, it is an unpopular position on the TD, but, yes, in hindsight with us moving on from Arraez, our best lineup would have had Urshela at 3B and Miranda at 1B (and Farmer at utility!). If Kiriloff is indeed healthy, we could have skipped the entire Gallo thing and had him play OF/DH with Buxton, Gordon, Larnach, Kepler and Taylor. 

But that ship has sailed.  It looks like Miranda gets 3B to at least start the year.  But 1B looks like more of a long-term better fit for two reasons: 1) his defensive upside is probably higher at 1B and 2) we have two other players coming up better suited for 3B (Lewis or Lee).

Quote

We shall see how things play out this year (including with Polanco), but I must admit I’m salivating over an infield/DH mix of Lewis, Correa, Lee, Miranda and Julien. All five of those players starting in ‘24 should be in the lineup essentially everyday and batting in the top six of the lineup with Buxton.

 

 

Love this, having depth in the infield is pretty neat. I feel like Julien gets lost a bit with a lot of the conversation revolving around Lee and Lewis, too. Julien could end up being the most productive of those three and it wouldn't be weird. I'm sure it will make Polanco an interesting conversation at the trade deadline if he comes out looking like a silver slugger candidate at 2nd base.

[Sean.h]

Didn't he play 3B in the minors? I don't think we lose anything by having him play 3B this year.

Hopefully AK is healthy in the lineup against RHP with Miranda at 3B. Against LHP, have Farmer and Miranda take the corners.

[Alex Boxwell]

4 minutes ago, Major League Ready said:

Why would we assume he merely lost weight.  What if he replaced fat with muscle?  Couldn't he be leaner and meaner?  

In a perfect world, I hope this is the case. In terms of training typically you have give something to get something. If the emphasis was to improve his lateral quickness he likely had to lose some mass. It may be a bit of a fools errand with his range and arm strength already grading so poorly I just worry about the trade off. Which you are right, there could be none

[Greggory Masterson]

Miranda had put on weight in the minors, which likely contributed to his power, but the approach change also played a huge factor, so I’m not sure how much of each led to his development.

I also haven’t seen what he looks like now, nor do we really know if it was enough weight loss to noticeably sap his power. When he gets moved to first or DH in the next year or two, if the bulk is needed, he can do it then.

He likely only has a couple of years left before he’s pushed out of third, regardless of his defensive chops. So I’d call him the third baseman of now. 

[chpettit19]

1 minute ago, Alex Boxwell said:

In a perfect world, I hope this is the case. In terms of training typically you have give something to get something. If the emphasis was to improve his lateral quickness he likely had to lose some mass. It may be a bit of a fools errand with his range and arm strength already grading so poorly I just worry about the trade off. Which you are right, there could be none

I'm not seeing the connection here. So he got in better shape and that means he won't hit for power now? It sounds like he ate better and worked out more. Not sure how that equals the Twins taking away his power. He openly admitted he wore down at the end of the year and needed to be in better shape. I could argue that him slimming down and being in better shape will improve his power numbers because he'll be able to sustain his performance better over the course of a full season. And if he can play 3B well he can shift over to 1B when the time comes and be good enough there. 

Mass<>Power. Strength and/or bat speed= power. Byron Buxton doesn't have a whole lot of mass to him, but he sure can hit for some power.

[MMMordabito]

Hopefully, the sleek and sexy has more to do with moving weight around than losing a bunch of weight.  Not to set the bar too high, but Arenado plays at 6'2", 215# and doesn't have any trouble with the 30/100 production even in St. Louis.  Miranda is listed at 6'2", 210#, so he's in the ballpark 😉.

[CRF]

I'm in the camp that thinks Miranda is probably better suited to be at 1st, but time will tell. I also honestly don't believe Kirilloff will be able to recover from his wrist injury, and I hope I'm wrong. Miranda's certainly no Gio when he plays 3rd, but he'll improve with more experience. I'm sure we'll have to put up with some errors, but C4 will cover for some of Miranda's inexperience.  

[EGFTShaw]

1 hour ago, Alex Boxwell said:

In a perfect world, I hope this is the case. In terms of training typically you have give something to get something. If the emphasis was to improve his lateral quickness he likely had to lose some mass. It may be a bit of a fools errand with his range and arm strength already grading so poorly I just worry about the trade off. Which you are right, there could be none

Not quite right about the improved physical aspects where it is lateral movement, arm strength or other increases in muscle mass.

First you do need to lose Fat.  It does nothing for you other than make you a good grilling options for the vicious Land Sharks.

So, losing fat will make you lighter and allow your current muscles do more.  This is where you were going.  It is the first step.

But if you lose the fat and gain muscle, (your mass could remain consistent or even increase), you can improve all aspects.

I understand your thought processes on this but would like to see Miranda Rights have a full season at 3B to see how he handles the hot corner and see how his bat plays.

As stated, if it turns out bad, we have some very good Plan Bs.

I was not on the Keep Urshela(sp?) Bandwagon.  

I think the bats we have coming up will play out better that Gio.

[roger]

10 minutes ago, MMMordabito said:

Hopefully, the sleek and sexy has more to do with moving weight around than losing a bunch of weight.  Not to set the bar too high, but Arenado plays at 6'2", 215# and doesn't have any trouble with the 30/100 production even in St. Louis.  Miranda is listed at 6'2", 210#, so he's in the ballpark 😉.

Loved the last five words of your comment, MMM.  Got a really good smile!

And count me among those that just doesn't understand why this article was even written.  Has anyone seen Miranda this spring?  Has Alex?  Has he had a discussion with Miranda on what he did over the winter?  I just don't understand why being in better shape, whatever that means, relates to being a poorer hitter or power hitter in 2023.

[Craig Arko]

Gary Gaetti was 6’0, 180. He did okay.

[Cris E]

This could easily have been suggested as part of an organizational move towards better health.  Improving flexibility and reducing mass might help keep him on the field, which I think everyone is particularly sensitive to after the carnage of 2022.

Regarding Miranda playing first, Plan A is still Kirilloff until he doesn't seize it. Past that, I also think they want to keep first open for whoever turns out to need it. If they have to make room for Lee or Lewis or Martin or Wallner they'll need different kinds of flexibility so starting everyone as far as possible up on the defensive spectrum leaves room on the easy end for injured or displaced guys as the season unfolds. Who knows, Polanco could get hurt and end up over there, or Wallner could shove his way into the discussion early, or Miranda could get shouldered aside by a SS.  

 

[Nine of twelve]

Losing body fat should do nothing but help a baseball player. Losing muscle mass is a different matter of course, but there's no reason that this should have happened with Miranda. 

[Mike Sixel]

This site. Wow. Just. Wow. 

[Alex Boxwell]

17 minutes ago, CRF said:

I'm in the camp that thinks Miranda is probably better suited to be at 1st, but time will tell. I also honestly don't believe Kirilloff will be able to recover from his wrist injury, and I hope I'm wrong. Miranda's certainly no Gio when he plays 3rd, but he'll improve with more experience. I'm sure we'll have to put up with some errors, but C4 will cover for some of Miranda's inexperience.  

Kirilloff's wrist terrifies me as well. A unique wrist injury on a pure hitter like that can certainly derail a career. With Correa, that is a good point that as long as Miranda can knock it down and get it to first on time the left side should be fine as pair in the short term.

[Cory Engelhardt]

I do think him learning and having the experience to play multiple positions is good, and I think he can hold his own to at least be average or only slightly below defensively at 3b, along with 1b and dh. Once Lewis is healthy and up, things may change. But flexibility is a bonus, not a curse.

[farmerguychris]

He played this role in the minors, time to try it in the biggs.  If he can't handle it, then come up with plan B - but you gotta rip the bandaid off and try it at some point right?

[4twinsJA]

I am not in the Urshela camp. He had a good year and by all accounts was a good teammate, but expendable. Miranda will be much more comfortable at 3B than 1B, Urshela's defensive metrics were nothing to get excited about. I agree in future may see Correa, Lewis, Lee in some combination at 3B, SS, 2B. I am a little pessimistic about Kirilloff and maybe Miranda's long term position in 1B but for this year like him at 3B.

[Doctor Gast]

Moving Miranda to his MiLB position just opens up more opportunity to keep Miranda's bat in the line-up. I hope Miranda will work out at 3B but if not we have a very capable Farmer to take over & we try to fit him in at 1B or DH, which limits him as far his ABs.

[Mike Sixel]

2 minutes ago, farmerguychris said:

He played this role in the minors, time to try it in the biggs.  If he can't handle it, then come up with plan B - but you gotta rip the bandaid off and try it at some point right?

Not according to half the articles on this site. If the player isn't perfect, its just too risky. Also, if they don't develop players and play them, they are stupid. So, um, good luck?

[Karbo]

I seem to remember a long time ago Gaetti had some problems at 3rd, but hard work turned him into a darn good fielder. This what coaches ar for, to help him improve. Though I don't have a very high opinion of the coaching staff, I think they should be able to work with him. Just give the guy a chance. If we get a couple months in they will know if he can be at least adequate.

[JD-TWINS]

Miranda getting in better shape and slimming 10 lbs or whatever is a lot different than a 1200 calorie starvation diet that will “sap all batting skills/power”. Miranda played 2000 innings at 3B in minors……that was his target position.

We shed salary moving Urshella ($10M) & we made room for an organizational potential star at 1B (Kirilof) by focusing Miranda at 3B. If Kiriloff can’t play, Miranda has a new home in ‘24 at 1B.

The salary shed allowed a trade for Farmer ($5M) - a much more skilled option as a SS bridge to Lewis & gang. We signed CC and now things may seem odd but losing Gio (even though I loved his consistency & clutch hitting) makes sense as we evolve our younger guys. 

Miranda was a star in ‘21 in minors & was in the mix for ROY in ‘22 after only 4 months. He’s gonna be OK!!

[MMMordabito]

24 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

This site. Wow. Just. Wow. 

Just a few more weeks, and we can hopefully move from speculation to observation.

[Dman]

It doesn't look like Miranda will be an elite defender at third but his arm can't be any worse than Arraez's was.  Last I checked he checked in with a average (50) arm on MLB.com.  He is a 40 runner so range is an issue though lot's of stuff hit to third comes in hard.  Still hopefully the slimmed down version is ready for those slow rollers as well.  I don't know how he will do at third but we are going to find out.

I guess I still don't see the angst about Urshela.  Farmer replaced him and he can play third if Miranda can't hold it down.  Nice thing about Farmer over Urshela is he can hold down short, 2nd, catcher and left if needed.  Urshela can't do that. Might lose a bit on the bat with Farmer but if he is platooned properly he can make up for some of that.  Given the roster and the guys coming up Urshela didn't seem like a great fit to me and the Twins must have felt the same way.

They might not be ready this year but Lewis and Lee are hopefully not that far away and could take over at third if Miranda can't hold it down.  The Twins obviously feel Miranda can get the job done or else he would be at 1st base already likely in some sort of platoon role with Kirilloff between 1st and DH.  They must not like that idea thus they are playing him at third. Like I said I don't see him as a plus defender at third but I think he can hold his own there and if the bat plays like last year or better he is fine there IMO.

I don't think playing MIranda at third is a misstep but with so little to go on will have to wait and see.

[Fire Dan Gladden]

Just so I understand:

- Miranda needs to lose a lot of weight, but not too much weight. 
- He needs to come as close to looking like an 80's version of Jean Claude Van Damme as possible.
- He should also be running 7-8 miles per day for conditioning
- He should be spending a few hours a day on 3B defense drills
- He should also be spending a few hours a day on 1B defense drills in case 3B falls through.

Am I missing anything?

[mnfireman]

Miranda admitted to tiring down the stretch last year, so HE chose to get in better shape. HE said HE eliminated chocolate and other sweets from his diet and ate more lean meat and vegetables. Sounds to me like he lost some so-called baby fat and replaced it with lean muscle.

This body change should lead to more agility in the field, better (not great) speed on the basebaths and less strain on knees, hips, core and his overall health. All of which should lead to him having a very good season for the Twins.

[Squirrel]

19 minutes ago, MMMordabito said:

Just a few more weeks, and we can hopefully move from speculation to observation.

Nah ... clickbaits will still be clickbaiting