Ranking the Twins Offseason Moves

[mikelink45]

11 hours ago, Oldtimer said:

If we get the Lopez of 22 and the Galo of 21, we're in for an exciting season..

That's like wishing we had the Sano of 2017.  Seldom do players revert to past peak performances.

[Monkeypaws]

It's inferred that Gallo is washed up.

Drafted as a high-schooler from the same draft as Correa and Buxton, why?

I mean, Buxton and Correa are the face of the franchise going forward, no?

 

[Major League Ready]

11 hours ago, rv78 said:

When did the Twins sign Ellsbury and Davis? I must have missed that.

It matters if Gallo keeps Larnach or Wallner or Gordon from getting significant at bats especially if they are hitting much better than Gallo. It matters if the FO would have used the money for Gallo and added a few million more to it for a player that would actually be able to hit. Had they signed him at 1 or 2 million I would have no problem with it. It's as if they looked at bringing back Sano for $14M and decided no, Gallo is just as bad and he's only $11M so we'll save $3M if we go with him instead. No matter how I look at it, it was a waste of at least $10M when Larnach, Wallner and Gordon would/could be just as productive for league minimum. 

No but you obviously missed the point entirely.  Is avoiding a car accident unnecessary if you have never had one?  It's a one year deal.  Get over it!

[Major League Ready]

9 hours ago, mikelink45 said:

That's like wishing we had the Sano of 2017.  Seldom do players revert to past peak performances.

Kind of .... Gallo has had one bad year (last year) in the past 6 years.  He has been 2.8 - 4.2 WAR.  He produced more WAR than Hanniger overall.  I bet he would have gotten a similar deal had he not been so bad last year.  I am OK with a buy low free agent with 5 previous good years.  I don't think he adds much given they appear to be keeping Kepler but I also don't see a problem as long as the leash is not too long.

[mikelink45]

42 minutes ago, Major League Ready said:

Kind of .... Gallo has had one bad year (last year) in the past 6 years.  He has been 2.8 - 4.2 WAR.  He produced more WAR than Hanniger overall.  I bet he would have gotten a similar deal had he not been so bad last year.  I am OK with a buy low free agent with 5 previous good years.  I don't think he adds much given they appear to be keeping Kepler but I also don't see a problem as long as the leash is not too long.

I repeat myself - he has had a bad year every year since and including 2020.  WAR is not my only measure of a good player. And he gains points for defense when he is really an offense first guy and if I ever questioned the dwar it would be for Gallo. 

[Nashvilletwin]

11 hours ago, JD-TWINS said:

They moved Urshela to open the spot for Miranda. 2000 innings at 3B & best player in minor leagues in ‘21. Period.

Farmer was insurance and a cheap/effective option if CC was gone & a perfectly good placeholder for Lewis/Lee. Maybe all of ‘23 & into ‘24. Now we have a former starting SS as our utility guy. Excellent splits v. LH pitching. He’ll be at 3B for the LH pitchers & Miranda will shift to 1B.

Taylor is a depth move. Can’t have Celestino in the SHOW! Buxton has played more than 100 games ONCE in 7 years. I’m a huge Gordon fan & am as mystified as anyone about the Gallo signing. $ reasons & his lack of ability to put ball in play coupled were what made up a bad signing IMO. My assumption was Kepler would be gone and the two salaries would wash. Not yet.

If Kirilof is out again Gallo will pick up most of the starts at 1B & Gordon will play 140 games in OF.

Gordon will get plenty of playing time! Can’t play Taylor in front of him v. RH pitching! 80% plus guys are RH so that’s a bunch of starts!! The guy had 28 doubles in 405 AB’s …….it was his first season with health in his pro ball career. He gained 25 lb in 6 months and is getting stronger & stronger.

Don’t cheer for Taylor or Gallo this year and you should be good in ‘24. Go TWINS!

1. If Correa, Lee, Lewis, Julien and Miranda comprise the 2024 primary (notice Kiriloff is missing) infield, which position does Miranda play? So I agree 100% that Miranda is our starting 3B and the Urshela move was made partly to give him that slot.  I’m just saying, if Lee, Lewis and Julien are truly the second comings we all think they are, Miranda is the best of that bunch to play 1B long-term.

2. Agree 100% on Kepler still staying and Celestino.  As an aside, I’m just having a very hard time imaging an outfield with BB out of Kepler, Taylor and Gallo. Three one year rentals.  What a snore.

3. I share your enthusiasm for Gordon, but he should not be expected to get innings based on an injury. He should be our starting left fielder until proven he is not.  At the moment according to most of the TD, Gordon, Larnach and Wallner are  our 5th, 6th and 7th outfielders behind Taylor, Kepler and Gallo. So we have taken our three ascending younger players and given their innings to three “we know exactly who they are” plateaued/descending players. I mean I hope your are correct on Gordon’s playing time, but none of us will ever cheer/hope it happens due to an injury.

4. If Kiriloff is unable to go, why Gallo at 1B? Everyone just assumes that.  He already stinks as a hitter and now we are taking away the only reason he theoretically has any value as a defensive OFer. IMHO, Farmer goes to 3B and Miranda goes to 1B makes more sense.

5. Go Twins!

 

[Nashvilletwin]

13 hours ago, Beast said:

Various outlets analyzing the values exchanged in that trade say the Twins fleeced the Marlins

This is exactly when we all should start worrying most….lol.

[HoskenPowell]

7  D

6  C

5  B

4  A

3 B

2  B

1  B

[Major League Ready]

24 minutes ago, mikelink45 said:

I repeat myself - he has had a bad year every year since and including 2020.  WAR is not my only measure of a good player. And he gains points for defense when he is really an offense first guy and if I ever questioned the dwar it would be for Gallo. 

Hed had 4.2 fWAR in 2021.  On what planet is that a bad year?  Correa had 4.4 last year.  2020 was the Covid year which was roughly 1/3 of a regular season and he produced 1 WAR so once again he was on track for roughly 3 WAR.  The facts and your opinion are at odds.

[mikelink45]

7 minutes ago, Major League Ready said:

Hed had 4.2 fWAR in 2021.  On what planet is that a bad year?  Correa had 4.4 last year.  2020 was the Covid year which was roughly 1/3 of a regular season and he produced 1 WAR so once again he was on track for roughly 3 WAR.  The facts and your opinion are at odds.

That is okay - the key word in your statement  is "opinion".  That is what it is and I understand that many of you disagree.  But disagreements don't change opinions.  Sorry Joey - no one has won me over on your behalf. 

[Muppet]

They upgraded at catcher. CC is a very good, but overrated SS. That said, I'm glad they got him. Until Miranda puts in a full successful season at 3B he is just potential. His downslide at the end of last season is problematic. I don't count my rookies until they've hatched.  That said, they've offensively downgraded at every position. They can still win if they have a miraculous ability to keep players off the IL, if the pitching is as good as advertised, and if the young guys improve. They've been to the playoffs before with a similar looking bunch of miscreants. 

I think they are a worse team than last year, but I don't care. They can still win. There is no better time to be optimistic and excited than before they've thrown their first pitch. For me winning is fun, but it isn't everything. I'll happily watch them if even if they have a 62 win season (though I'd prefer a 100 win season). 

[JD-TWINS]

14 hours ago, rv78 said:

When did the Twins sign Ellsbury and Davis? I must have missed that.

It matters if Gallo keeps Larnach or Wallner or Gordon from getting significant at bats especially if they are hitting much better than Gallo. It matters if the FO would have used the money for Gallo and added a few million more to it for a player that would actually be able to hit. Had they signed him at 1 or 2 million I would have no problem with it. It's as if they looked at bringing back Sano for $14M and decided no, Gallo is just as bad and he's only $11M so we'll save $3M if we go with him instead. No matter how I look at it, it was a waste of at least $10M when Larnach, Wallner and Gordon would/could be just as productive for league minimum. 

……..or spent the $10 million on a FA reliever.

[JD-TWINS]

1 hour ago, Nashvilletwin said:

1. If Correa, Lee, Lewis, Julien and Miranda comprise the 2024 primary (notice Kiriloff is missing) infield, which position does Miranda play? So I agree 100% that Miranda is our starting 3B and the Urshela move was made partly to give him that slot.  I’m just saying, if Lee, Lewis and Julien are truly the second comings we all think they are, Miranda is the best of that bunch to play 1B long-term.

2. Agree 100% on Kepler still staying and Celestino.  As an aside, I’m just having a very hard time imaging an outfield with BB out of Kepler, Taylor and Gallo. Three one year rentals.  What a snore.

3. I share your enthusiasm for Gordon, but he should not be expected to get innings based on an injury. He should be our starting left fielder until proven he is not.  At the moment according to most of the TD, Gordon, Larnach and Wallner are  our 5th, 6th and 7th outfielders behind Taylor, Kepler and Gallo. So we have taken our three ascending younger players and given their innings to three “we know exactly who they are” plateaued/descending players. I mean I hope your are correct on Gordon’s playing time, but none of us will ever cheer/hope it happens due to an injury.

4. If Kiriloff is unable to go, why Gallo at 1B? Everyone just assumes that.  He already stinks as a hitter and now we are taking away the only reason he theoretically has any value as a defensive OFer. IMHO, Farmer goes to 3B and Miranda goes to 1B makes more sense.

5. Go Twins!

 

Pretty much 100% agreement:

1) Go Twins!

2) Miranda was a masher in minors in ‘21……no reason to think other guys succeeding in Minors now  are way better just because we want it to be. IF Kiriloff is OK to go & 80% of starters are RH……I see Miranda platooning at 1B for 35 games v. LH pitching. Another 100 games at 3B.

2.5) If Polanco gets back to .270 & 24HR & 80 plus RBI, he’ll be back in 2024.

3) Gallo at 1B v. Miranda, if Kirilof can’t go, is due to the numerous LH hitters we have and the disproportionate number of RH starters that are out there. Gallo v. righty is better fit than Miranda…….Farmer needs to rest CC & Polanco - minimum of 45 total games unavailable at 3B.

4) Taylor will not start more than 20 games against RH pitching. Can’t take that big of a hit offensively with the options we have. That’s 50 total starts & some may be corner OF.

5) ‘24 OF - Buxton - Lewis - Gordon - Larnach - Walner……….no more rental OF’s.

6) If I gave opinion or inferred Gordon should/would only play if somebody is hurt, that’s my fault. It’s a more clear path if someone is hurt. I am a big fan - he was still growing through last season - going to be stronger. I see 80 games in LF & 50 games in CF in ‘23! In Twins OF for another 5 years!

[Brandon]

22 hours ago, Seth Stohs said:

Where would you rank the addition of Nick Paparesta as the team's head athletic trainer? 

I honestly think that might be #2 for me. 

Some additions for the article include:

7.  Another benefit of trading Urshala was the 10 million in savings that could be reallocated.  He would have been fine to keep around had he been a better SS.  He is only a player we would want at SS in a pinch, not an extended period of time.  and at the time of his trade, we were trying to sign Correa and / or find a suitable replacement at SS.

6.  While Gallo has lots of holes in his swing.  He does have 35-40 HR capabilities which the lineup outside of maybe Buxton is lacking.  Only Correa and Buxton had over 20 HRs on the team last year and Correa had 22 and was still a free agent.  So having a middle of the order bat with big time power was missing from the lineup equation.  Having that bat also be a gold glove outfielder is a bonus and give us a Kepler type floor with power.  having a low batting average and coming off a bad year is what made him affordable.  

4.  Farmer does what Urshala can't and that is play good defense at SS.  He can fill in for long periods of time for injury and is 4 million less in salary.  He was the defacto replacement at SS until we were able to sign Correa.  and like you said is free to play a utility role which is his best role on a contending team.  

2.  This from Roger:

23 hours ago, roger said:

Their signing three catchers with major league experience to minor league deals should be mentioned.  It is probable one of their catchers will get injured at some point this summer.  When that happens, one of the three will be called up to play some of the time.  Prior to that, they will be valuable while working with the young pitchers in St. Paul.  I hoped they would sign one veteran to this role, am surprised they signed three.

2A:  This is from Seth Stohs in the comments section as well.  in that this is where he would put hiring the new trainer from the A's and slide the other transactions back 1 spot.  

22 hours ago, Seth Stohs said:

Where would you rank the addition of Nick Paparesta as the team's head athletic trainer? 

I honestly think that might be #2 for me. 

Overall, I flat out agree with your rankings of the transactions you evaluated.  You did miss a few.  Paddack extension is the biggest one.  while that one doesn't mean much for this year it does make next offseason closer to being really boring with another starting pitcher locked in next year.  Next year's rotation is shaping up to be:  Lopez, Ryan, Paddack, Ober, then rookies so we may or may not need to resign any of our 3 free agent starting pitchers next offseason or we could resign 1 and be set.  

[LA VIkes Fan]

23 hours ago, rv78 said:

When did the Twins sign Ellsbury and Davis? I must have missed that.

It matters if Gallo keeps Larnach or Wallner or Gordon from getting significant at bats especially if they are hitting much better than Gallo. It matters if the FO would have used the money for Gallo and added a few million more to it for a player that would actually be able to hit. Had they signed him at 1 or 2 million I would have no problem with it. It's as if they looked at bringing back Sano for $14M and decided no, Gallo is just as bad and he's only $11M so we'll save $3M if we go with him instead. No matter how I look at it, it was a waste of at least $10M when Larnach, Wallner and Gordon would/could be just as productive for league minimum. 

Substitute the word "Kepler" for the word "Gallo" and I would completely agree with you. Gallo is younger and has shown more upside than Kepler. I agree that we don't need and shouldn't still have both, just disagree that Gallo is the redundant one. You have hit the key issue though - if we have Kepler and Gallo playing in the OF or 1B 5 days a week, that means two of Gordon, Larnach, and Kirilloff won't get enough run in the field or at the plate even with the DH. Not a good idea for the team's development. That also includes Wallner but I don't think he's ready now any way. We need to give him at least 75% of a AAA season before he moves up. .