Rumor: Falvey says "Bullpen not a priority"

[Brock Beauchamp]

Phil Miller reported that Twins President of Baseball Operations Derek Falvey said the bullpen is not a priority right now. The Twins did a good job of addressing the bullpen at the last trade deadline and shuffling some pieces led to the Twins being middle of the pack overall.

But given the acquisition of Carlos Correa, Joey Gallo, and Pablo Lopez, this feels like a re-hash of previous offseasons, the last two of which has gone very poorly for the Twins in regards to fielding a good bullpen in the first half of the season.

Given the availability of marginal but solid relievers and the low cost of acquiring one as insurance against Jorge Lopez, Griffin Jax, Emilio Pagan, and others, I don't see why this decision is being made once again.

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[Cory Engelhardt]

It does feel like they are banking on the rotation giving more innings per start compared to last year. On paper, that actually does make quite a bit of sense.

And IF the rotation gives more innings, meaning less innings that the bullpen HAS to cover on a per-game basis, that helps too.

I still think they add at least one more arm before opening day. Quotes like this seem more like posturing than anything else.

[cHawk]

Concur with Cory Engelhardt. Given the increased rotation depth, I imagine that the rotation will get a heavier load this year.

Will they add an arm before opening day? Maybe.

Will it be of much significance? I imagine not.

[wsnydes]

I'm surprised and not at all surprised by this all at the same time.  Given the fact that they have multiple rotation guys coming back from injury, it stands to reason that they could move at least one of those to the pen.  Same with a couple of the prospects.  I'd still rather they bring in at least one more solid reliever.

All that said, you can never have enough pitching.

[Unwinder]

I wonder, does this signal that they're thinking about moving guys like Winder or maybe even Ober to the pen?

[Brady]

7 minutes ago, Cory Engelhardt said:

It does feel like they are banking on the rotation giving more innings per start compared to last year. On paper, that actually does make quite a bit of sense.

And IF the rotation gives more innings, meaning less innings that the bullpen HAS to cover on a per-game basis, that helps too.

I still think they add at least one more arm before opening day. Quotes like this seem more like posturing than anything else.

If the Twins can get more high-quality work out of the rotation, that will ease pressure on the bullpen and not just from a workload perspective. Pagan should only be coming in in ultra-low leverage situations, not critical 8th inning matchups because Duran had to put out a fire in the 5th.

At this point, let's see how everyone (especially the starters) looks through the first month or two and decide if additional support is necessary.

[Muppet]

Assuming Celestino and Matt Wallner start the year in St. Paul, and that Kirilloff gets a few starts in RF, the Twins will have more outfield arms than bullpen arms. Seems smart. If your tired mediocre bullpen that pitches more than 4 innings per game starts to falter, your stacked outfield can surely get those extra outs. 

[DJL44]

They have two 40-man roster spots (Canterino and Paddack) opening up when spring training begins. If they don't add two pitchers to replace the two injured pitchers they're mismanaging the roster. There are lots of decent relievers who would add depth.

[Cory Engelhardt]

6 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

They have two 40-man roster spots (Canterino and Paddack) opening up when spring training begins. If they don't add two pitchers to replace the two injured pitchers they're mismanaging the roster. There are lots of decent relievers who would add depth.

Also this. 

[Brock Beauchamp]

30 minutes ago, Unwinder said:

I wonder, does this signal that they're thinking about moving guys like Winder or maybe even Ober to the pen?

I hate the idea of moving Ober to the pen and suspect the front office feels the same way.

I'm pretty okay with Winder going to the pen.

[miller761]

There are a fair amount of bullpen arms out there unsigned. Pretty sure the FO is playing the waiting game for a great bargain. 

[Unwinder]

4 minutes ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

I hate the idea of moving Ober to the pen and suspect the front office feels the same way.

I'm pretty okay with Winder going to the pen.

Yeah I don't want to see Ober going to the pen, I feel like he's pretty obviously more valuable as starting depth and, you know, a starter who's still going to be here in two years.

I like Winder, and would prefer to see him succeed as a starter but I'm pretty skeptical of his shoulder holding up to the workload.

[Seth Stohs]

29 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

They have two 40-man roster spots (Canterino and Paddack) opening up when spring training begins. If they don't add two pitchers to replace the two injured pitchers they're mismanaging the roster. There are lots of decent relievers who would add depth.

They won't put Canterino on the 60-Day IL unless something crazy happens. Why would they pay him $750,000 to not play (and MLB service time) when they can option him to St. Paul, pay him $15K per month and not give any service time. 

But, along with the starting pitcher depth, the hope is there would be more health, so there should be more 6-inning starts. 

Finally, why go sign a guy like Fulmer (and he's probably the best out there), rather than just throwing Winder, Henriquez, Sands, and even Ober if he's not in the rotation. I mean, later in the season, maybe even someone like Varland or Balazovic can come up and have an impact. 

[weitz41]

36 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

They have two 40-man roster spots (Canterino and Paddack) opening up when spring training begins. If they don't add two pitchers to replace the two injured pitchers they're mismanaging the roster. There are lots of decent relievers who would add depth.

I would think Lewis will be on the 60 day IL as well

[tony&rodney]

This didn't surprise me. The Twins have some decent arms returning: Duran, Jax, Thielbar, Moran, Alcala, J. Lopez, Henriquez, Megill, and Pagan. They are also likely to move Winder and Sands to the pen. Maeda will get an opportunity to start but may transition to the pen as well. Chafin and Moore might be decent possible additions via free agency but a trade seems more likely if the Twins feel a need to bolster the pen. My expectation is that the biggest improvement to our bullpen should be the increased innings pitched by the starting pitchers. Baldelli didn't have much choice last season between injuries and ineffective aging options. 

[TwinsDr2021]

They way I see it, if they go with a 13 man pitching staff,

They have Lopez, Gray, Mahle, Ryan and Ober, the the relief pitchers Duran, Lopez, Jax, Thielbar, Maeda, Winder, Moran and Pagen. With Sands, Varland, Megill, Henriquez and Alcala next up. So unless they plan on trading or cutting Pagen or Megill it doesn't make sense to bring in another arm and let Varland, Alcala, and Sands rot in the minors. It isn't like these are young guys that just need more time, they either need to pitch in the majors or be let go.

[Dman]

You look at it and they have Lopez, Duran and Jax as solid top end pen arms.  Thielbar might be close to that group as well.  Question marks with Alcala, Pagan and Megill.  They could be good, bad or somewhere in between.

That leaves them with Henriquez, Sands, and Moran which should be solid lower end options for 6th, 7th inning.  If needed they can also use Winder in the pen.  

Off the 40 man they have Coulombe and Dobnak as possible pen arms and Schulfer or Laweryson might also be options if they start out well in AAA.  So they have a fair bit of depth for the pen right now.  If disaster struck they could use Varland and SWR in that role for a while as well.

So I guess I can see Falvey's point. Unless they are going to add a top end arm which they don't like to pay for then they probably don't need to add unless a deal they really like comes along.

They will use at least 2 if not all 3 of the roster spots that come available. Hopefully one for another right handed bat and the other two for waiver claims on borderline 40 man pitchers that get waived as teams pick up more players as spring training nears. Or maybe, just maybe they find a guy they like for the right price and they sign him.

 

[mikelink45]

It is an illogical position when you consider how many RP appearances we had last year.  Is Rocco going to change his strategy - did he turn over the instruction page and realize that SP can go 6 - 7 innings?  

In today's MLB the BP is the priority.  KC in their WS years changed the paradigm, the Yankees built on this and so did many other staffs.   

[nicksaviking]

54 minutes ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

I hate the idea of moving Ober to the pen and suspect the front office feels the same way.

I'm pretty okay with Winder going to the pen.

If they hated it so much, they probably wouldn't have traded for Lopez and then immediately tell us that Maeda has a rotation spot too. Don't get me wrong, I ALSO wanted another rotation spot open for a younger pitcher and Ober has easily been the most undervalued starter this team has employed the last two years.

I also don't much care about free agent relievers; ain't a one of them any more reliable than what the Twins already have as options. Point being, relief pitchers by and large are not reliable, paying for them is a sucker move. But the Twins have had success as of late turning starters into their best bullpen pieces, so I prefer that move over free agents. 

[DJL44]

33 minutes ago, Seth Stohs said:

They won't put Canterino on the 60-Day IL unless something crazy happens. Why would they pay him $750,000 to not play (and MLB service time) when they can option him to St. Paul, pay him $15K per month and not give any service time. 

You're paying $750,000 for the opportunity to add someone else to the roster. I would be surprised if they never use Canterino's 40 man spot some time next season. You bring up a good point that they could wait until May to use that spot and gain that extra year of service time He's controlled ages 25-30, delaying service time means you get his age 31 season. I'm not convinced Canterino will still be in organized baseball at age 32.

[DJL44]

47 minutes ago, miller761 said:

There are a fair amount of bullpen arms out there unsigned. Pretty sure the FO is playing the waiting game for a great bargain. 

I think they may already have an agreement they can't announce until spring training begins.

[Brock Beauchamp]

2 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

If they hated it so much, they probably wouldn't have traded for Lopez and then immediately tell us that Maeda has a rotation spot too. Don't get me wrong, I ALSO wanted another rotation spot open for a younger pitcher and Ober has easily been the most undervalued starter this team has employed the last two years.

Ober has an option remaining, though, and it's unlikely all six guys make it to Opening Day healthy.

Personally, if that magically happens, I'd open the season with a six man rotation.

[DJL44]

48 minutes ago, Unwinder said:

I like Winder, and would prefer to see him succeed as a starter but I'm pretty skeptical of his shoulder holding up to the workload.

He's like 9th in the pecking order as a starter but could be in the bullpen right away. I'm guessing he'd rather be in the bullpen in the majors.

[Unwinder]

3 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

If they hated it so much, they probably wouldn't have traded for Lopez and then immediately tell us that Maeda has a rotation spot too. Don't get me wrong, I ALSO wanted another rotation spot open for a younger pitcher and Ober has easily been the most undervalued starter this team has employed the last two years.

Considering how much the Twins have had to dip into depth starters, and how injury prone the opening-day rotation is, I don't think relegating Ober to depth is that big of a snub. It's pretty clear that the rotation moves have been more about stockpiling than upgrading. I'll bet Ober pitches more major-league innings than at least two opening-day starters.

[TwinsDr2021]

3 minutes ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

Ober has an option remaining, though, and it's unlikely all six guys make it to Opening Day healthy.

Personally, if that magically happens, I'd open the season with a six man rotation.

I don't disagree with your take of a 6 man rotation, because Ober and for sure Maeda will be limited at least for a bit. But do you really trade Arraez for a guy that is only going to pitch once every 6 days? It is more evidence to me this FO is making things up as they go with no real plan.

Going into 24 they have Lopez as a for sure starter (assuming he doesn't get hurt) and to me this is a prove it year for Ryan (based on how he did against teams not named Tigers or Royals), it is also a prove it year for Ober, is what he has done for real and can he stay healthy. So at minimum they need a prospect to step it up this year (Winder, SWR, Varland, whomever, but that pitcher needs 15-20 starts this year just so next year can be a prove it year. Or the Twins are going to go into every year searching for a couple of starters. (That is getting old)

[chpettit19]

43 minutes ago, TwinsDr2021 said:

They way I see it, if they go with a 13 man pitching staff,

They have Lopez, Gray, Mahle, Ryan and Ober, the the relief pitchers Duran, Lopez, Jax, Thielbar, Maeda, Winder, Moran and Pagen. With Sands, Varland, Megill, Henriquez and Alcala next up. So unless they plan on trading or cutting Pagen or Megill it doesn't make sense to bring in another arm and let Varland, Alcala, and Sands rot in the minors. It isn't like these are young guys that just need more time, they either need to pitch in the majors or be let go.

Maeda isn't going to start the year in the pen, he's in the rotation. More likely Ober starts the year in AAA, or the pen. And I'd be surprised if they had Winder in the big league pen and not the AAA rotation instead of Alcala in the big league pen. But I can also see why they aren't looking to bring in another arm. Although, I'd like to bring in Chafin if it's possible. I'm not sold on Thielbar maintaining his production at 36 and would prefer Moran starts in AAA (even though I think he can be a stud) with Thielbar and Chafin in the bigs to provide a little more depth. But I'd be good waiting until I get Paddack on the 60-day to try to sign Chafin.

[stringer bell]

Regarding Canterino, they had a near identical situation with Enlow two years ago. The team didn’t use the major league 60-day for Enlow, so I doubt they would for Canterino. There will be a 60-day assignment for Paddack and I believe also for Lewis. 
 

The Twins might be offering minor league contracts to guys who really aren’t minor leaguers. A pitcher receiving such an offer would probably wait and see if he got a major league contract offer before accepting. 

[Brock Beauchamp]

6 minutes ago, TwinsDr2021 said:

I don't disagree with your take of a 6 man rotation, because Ober and for sure Maeda will be limited at least for a bit. But do you really trade Arraez for a guy that is only going to pitch once every 6 days? It is more evidence to me this FO is making things up as they go with no real plan.

In 2021, the Brewers were wildly successful with a six man rotation and would have done it again in 2022 if not for injuries.

In 2022, the Astros were wildly successful with a six man rotation.

Honestly, I think the bigger indictment of the front office is that they're not strongly considering a six man rotation.

[big dog]

If I wanted to pick up a reliever, the last thing I would do is tell the world it was a top priority.  Why raise prices unnecessarily?

[DJL44]

16 minutes ago, stringer bell said:

Regarding Canterino, they had a near identical situation with Enlow two years ago. The team didn’t use the major league 60-day for Enlow, so I doubt they would for Canterino. There will be a 60-day assignment for Paddack and I believe also for Lewis. 

Can they option Lewis or does he start on the MLB injured list because he was injured in MLB?