Nick Gordon's Future

[Brad.dahlen]

Everyone seems to be rooting for Nick Gordon, which I think is justified. But I believe after the addition of Correa, his role on this team became very questionable. I think Farmer is not the 4th RH hitting OF, as well as a backup SS/IF. Will they use a roster spot just for a LH hitting backup OF? And even if they did, would that just be until Royce Lewis is healthy in the late summer? 

 

I'd love for the Twins to find a way to keep Gordon, even if that meant trading Kepler, Larnach, and/or Kiriloff.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

10 hours ago, Twodogs said:

Right now I believe on paper that Buxton, Kepler and Gallo are the Twins best outfielders.  I think you should expect your best players to play the best overall.  So in my opinion, I think the Twins need to play the best players the most, (as long as they are in contention).  Once they drop out of contention then they should trade everyone that doesn't fit into the future.  Kepler, Gallo, probably Polanco, and anyone else that they can get rid of so as to make room for the future, (young guys).  I mean if they are on the team and they are the best guys then they should play the most.  At least until the team is going nowhere.  It doesn't really matter if you're one of the best guys on a last place team.  Give them a chance, this is the squad the brain trust has put into play.  If it doesn't work out flush the toilet.

Kepler had a 95 wRC+ and Gallo 85. With 350 PA on FG leaderboard for outfielders, Kepler ranked 63, Gallo 86. On paper those two as a combination would comprise the worst hitting corner outfield in MLB by a wide margin. For a team that struggled to score runs last year, this would be disastrous. The Twins absolutely have better hitting outfielders already on the team, and Gordon is clearly one of them. His 111 wRC+ ranked 39.

[TwinsDr2021]

3 hours ago, Riverbrian said:

What happens if Kepler and Gallo are not the Twins best outfielders? 

Based on the 2022 numbers. Gordon was better than both of them and it wasn't close. 

 

Then us Twins fans could be in for another long year, and this FO's jobs could be in trouble. IMO

[Twodogs]

2 hours ago, Riverbrian said:

What happens if Kepler and Gallo are not the Twins best outfielders? 

Based on the 2022 numbers. Gordon was better than both of them and it wasn't close. 

 

But going into a season, you can't expect your best players not to be the best.  If the season plays out and they aren't the best then you move on from them.  I mean if the Twins don't expect them to be the best on the Twins then why would some team like the Marlins or any other team for that matter want them at all?  Why would teams be considering these guys for trades if the Twins don't even consider them to be the best on the team?  So I think you have to start off with Kepler and Gallo and when they prove not to be the best you move on.

[JD-TWINS]

On 1/17/2023 at 4:09 PM, Sean.h said:

No contending team would use Gordon as a starting OF.

As a versatile backup for many positions? now there is where Gordon can potentially fit. But since we have Farmer in the infield and Celestino in the OF, there is redundancy. we could trade both Gordon and Kepler. Depends on the return obviously...

Kepler has to go, somehow. After Gallo signing this seems obvious.

Gordon hit .272 had 28 doubles & 9 HR in 405 AB’s. He gained 25lb from January to June. With his speed & tendency to pull the ball he has should make some hay with the SHIFT elimination as well.

With 575 AB’s he is a 40 double guy with 15 HR - durable - good speed - 80 games in LF & 45 games in CF.

He played 65 games in LF & 33 games in CF in ‘22. The only reason he didn’t play more outfield was because we had nobody else effective at 2B after Polanco shutdown for last 55 games of the year.

We were forced to watch an overmatched Celestino and equally overmatched Jake Cave the last 2 months.

With a former starting SS as our new infield utility guy Gordon is officially an outfielder. Comparing him with Celestino is a real stretch!

With the lack of actual signings of a RH corner outfielder …….& we pursued 3-4 different guys…….this seems to make it obvious Celestino isn’t the answer for the Twins FO in ‘23!!

OF: Gordon - Buxton - Gallo (Larnach - Kirilof) 

IF: Miranda - CC - Polanco - Arraez (Farmer)

C: Vázquez - Jeffers

DH  &/or RH hitting outfielder. ?????

I’ve heard on MLB Network that FO has some inclination that Farmer may be able to spell Gallo vs. LH pitching in RF. Maybe LF for Farmer with Larnach in RF? Not sure about this as a reality i’m but it would be handy. Farmer’s bat is as good as any of the guys we looked at in FA…..OF defense?

We contended all spring & summer of ‘22 with Gordon playing OF most of the time.

[tarheeltwinsfan]

On 1/17/2023 at 6:19 PM, Doctor Gast said:

Signing Gallo was one of FO most bonehead move they have ever done (we don't need another Sano to replace the one we let go)

 

 

I agree Doc.

[Twodogs]

44 minutes ago, Richie the Rally Goat said:

Kepler had a 95 wRC+ and Gallo 85. With 350 PA on FG leaderboard for outfielders, Kepler ranked 63, Gallo 86. On paper those two as a combination would comprise the worst hitting corner outfield in MLB by a wide margin. For a team that struggled to score runs last year, this would be disastrous. The Twins absolutely have better hitting outfielders already on the team, and Gordon is clearly one of them. His 111 wRC+ ranked 39.

I really like Nick Gordon also, but how many MLB teams have been kicking around the tires for a Nick Gordon trade?  How many of them have shown interest in Max Kepler?  I'm sure if the Twins just wanted a couple of prospects for Kepler some team would have jumped on that already.  But for whatever reason the front office is holding Kepler out for a starting pitcher? Which is why no one has pulled the proverbial trigger yet.  So if teams are interested in Kepler, with one year of control and no one has even sniffed around for Gordon then all 30 of the MLB teams must not know what they are doing?  So all I've said is that the Twins best on paper is Buxton Kepler and Gallo, that's who they need to start the season with unless they can convince some team to trade a starting pitcher for one of them, such as Kepler.  I mean if the Twins are saying well Kepler is only a 4th/5th OF then why would some other team want him?

[JD-TWINS]

On 1/17/2023 at 3:18 PM, LA VIkes Fan said:

I disagree. The trade candidate is Kepler. Kepler is what he is; an above average fielding corner OF with a below average bat for his position who doesn’t play CF. Gordon is a better hitting OF, 113 ops+ last season, who’s is just learning the OF. You would expect his fielding and base running to improve over time and he can and will play CF. Gordon us cheap and out of options. I think Gordon will be in the 2023 roster either as the starter in LF or as the 4th OF behind Buxton, Gallo and Larnach. Kepler is the best trade candidate as part of a package for pitching from the Marlins. 

I agree that Buxton - Gallo - Gordon - Larnach are in the OF for sure. Kepler has to be traded. If we could, I’d keep him and lose Gallo but that’s not happening.

Due to last year’s performance & the expectation for slight betterment each year, Gordon starts in LF & plays 45 plus games in CF. Larnach plays a bunch of LF & some RF along with a bunch of DH at bats.

Bad news, IMO, is that Kepler at $8-9.5 million is not what Marlins are looking for, at least not as just one piece. They (Marlins) need left handed bats!! Kepler, along with another guy or two with control and league minimum contracts would be more realistic.

Luzardo from Marlins

For

Martin (IF & OF potential) - Kepler - Pagan or López 

[Richie the Rally Goat]

12 minutes ago, Twodogs said:

I really like Nick Gordon also, but how many MLB teams have been kicking around the tires for a Nick Gordon trade?  How many of them have shown interest in Max Kepler?  I'm sure if the Twins just wanted a couple of prospects for Kepler some team would have jumped on that already.  But for whatever reason the front office is holding Kepler out for a starting pitcher? Which is why no one has pulled the proverbial trigger yet.  So if teams are interested in Kepler, with one year of control and no one has even sniffed around for Gordon then all 30 of the MLB teams must not know what they are doing?  So all I've said is that the Twins best on paper is Buxton Kepler and Gallo, that's who they need to start the season with unless they can convince some team to trade a starting pitcher for one of them, such as Kepler.  I mean if the Twins are saying well Kepler is only a 4th/5th OF then why would some other team want him?

I have no idea why any team would want Gallo, and yet here we are.

Trades tend to trail the heavy free agency period. Likely the next month will see that activity heat up heading to ST. For now we can only speculate 

[August J Gloop]

1 hour ago, Richie the Rally Goat said:

I have no idea why any team would want Gallo, and yet here we are.

Trades tend to trail the heavy free agency period. Likely the next month will see that activity heat up heading to ST. For now we can only speculate 

Because Joey Gallo has been worth 54 runs above average offensively for his career (including last year's -6). Last year was a total disaster for him, you bet. But his trend is generally very good. The projections have him listed as a 1.2-1.5 win player, but that's because they all seem to agree that he's suddenly not going to be able to field his position. If he puts in the D that's been the norm for his career, he creeps up to a 2.5 win player. If he hits like 2021 (ancient history) he's a 4 win player. That's the idea behind Gallo. You're free to disagree that any of it is actually possible, but now you know the idea behind it.  

Nick Gordon was worse in 2021 than Gallo was in 2022. Yet here we are in 2023 saying that Gordon is the guy we have to find room for. Never mind His projections for 2023 are worse than Gallo's. 

I wouldn't be surprised to see Gordon sent out to a team who has their own projections rating him higher. Maybe the Yankees would prefer Gordon to Kepler. Or he could be the ceremonial piece in the purchase of a prospect and high priced veteran like Sale and Marcello Mayer (hee hee).  

[sun]

Sometimes the best players are the ones that stay healthy and available to play. After the Twins invested so much time waiting for Gordon to develop, I'd hate to see him go. I like his speed on the bases for playing small ball and his athleticism in the field.

[JD-TWINS]

On 1/18/2023 at 7:56 AM, stringer bell said:

Miranda can play first or DH against lefties. Polanco has much worse splits against left handed pitching. Farmer definitely should be in the lineup every single time against left handed pitching. 

.837 OPS career vs. lefties - seems straight forward - in the line-up somewhere every time we face a lefty!!

[JD-TWINS]

49 minutes ago, August J Gloop said:

Because Joey Gallo has been worth 54 runs above average offensively for his career (including last year's -6). Last year was a total disaster for him, you bet. But his trend is generally very good. The projections have him listed as a 1.2-1.5 win player, but that's because they all seem to agree that he's suddenly not going to be able to field his position. If he puts in the D that's been the norm for his career, he creeps up to a 2.5 win player. If he hits like 2021 (ancient history) he's a 4 win player. That's the idea behind Gallo. You're free to disagree that any of it is actually possible, but now you know the idea behind it.  

Nick Gordon was worse in 2021 than Gallo was in 2022. Yet here we are in 2023 saying that Gordon is the guy we have to find room for. Never mind His projections for 2023 are worse than Gallo's. 

I wouldn't be surprised to see Gordon sent out to a team who has their own projections rating him higher. Maybe the Yankees would prefer Gordon to Kepler. Or he could be the ceremonial piece in the purchase of a prospect and high priced veteran like Sale and Marcello Mayer (hee hee).  

Gordon was battling an intestinal issue for years - gained 25lb over 1st 6 months of ‘22. Had 28 doubles & 9 HR in 405 AB’s in ‘22. New found strength & endurance continues to grow going forward with his health improvements. He’s a 15 HR - 40 double guy with 575AB’s. Same OF versatility as Gallo. Only played OF one year professionally.

Gallo is a career .199 hitter. Not really that concerned in what he did in his career year of ‘21. He’s potentially 2 months into the season from being DFA’d. He’s got a bunch of talent around him (gotta perform) and if he succeeds, great!! Just don’t see Nick Gordon being the odd man out.

Kepler has got to be traded. Makes sense for return talent in trade. Makes baseball sense based on Larnach - Walner - Kirilof - Gordon - Gallo (all LH hitting OF) being the other 5 of 6 outfielders in the organization. Makes $ sense to rid organization of his salary.

[KBJ1]

I ĺike Gordon for his speed & versatility. He developed consistency at the plate last year as well. Farmer was a stop gap accusation when Correa opted out and until Lewis returns. Farmer is needed as backup to 3B & SS while Gordon can cover 2B and OF.

Arraez is the odd man out due to his lack of fielding ability. When/if Lewis, Martin, Cellistino push their way up, the likes of Farmer, Gordon, Gallo can be addressed. In lieu of an Ace starter falling into our lap (doubtful) we need to pursue a high leverage reliever, pray Kiriloff becomes great at 1B & and turn Gallo into an actual hitter with power

We just don't have anyone in the pipeline who can play LF with speed, power & consistent contact iE: 275 batting average.  Say what you will about Eddie Rosario,  but LF has been a gaping hole since he left.

 

[NotAboutWinning]

I think we've only begun to see the real Nick Gordon. With the medical issues behind him and getting consistent playing time due to all the injuries in 2022, he was finally able show some of his true potential.

[Otaknam]

On 1/17/2023 at 1:01 PM, stringer bell said:

During the first half of the disappointing 2021 season, there was speculation as to whether Nick Gordon would remain on the active roster or be subjected to the DFA process. He was nominally the second backup option for the Twins at both second base and shortstop so there was no clear path for Gordon to get playing time. 

With the onslaught on injuries in the outfield in '21 (remember Rob Refsnider and Kyle Garlick playing their first professional games in center) Gordon was given an opportunity to get playing time as an outfielder. Gordon eventually played in 45 games in the outfield, including 34 in center field. For someone who had never played there, he did surprisingly well. Adding the ability to play outfield including the key defensive position of center certainly added to Gordon's value going into 2022.

In 2022, Gordon made the club as a utility infielder/outfielder and again got the majority of his playing time on the grass. playing in 95 games in the outfield including 62 in left field. Defensive metrics for what is still a small sample size indicate the Gordon is an acceptable outfielder and probably, with a bit more experience, could be above average in left field. Meanwhile, as a hitter Gordon has improved. In 216 plate appearances in '21, Gordon was worth -5 runs as a hitter. In 2023, in about twice as many plate appearances, he was worth +6 at the plate. Much of his improvement probably comes from experience and another positive factor in gradually increasing strength as he has mostly recovered from career-threatening intestinal problems. Gordon has shown he belongs in the major leagues and the trends are pointing north as an offensive player.

Roster projections include Gordon as a utility player or perhaps the starting left fielder if Max Kepler is dealt away. I don't know if I am ready to declare Gordon a solid utility player or proclaim him as an every day outfielder. First of all, (again SSS) Gordon's metrics as an infielder are not good. At both second and short he grades out below average on range and defensive runs saved. He has played only six innings at third base and three innings in right field, so I wouldn't say he's a utility option at those positions. As a hitter, Nick is limited by rather extreme platoon splits, with only a .532 OPS versus left handers. Gordon only stole six bases (caught four times) last year so despite very good speed, his impact on the bases has been minimal. 

The Twins currently have a bunch of left handed hitters as candidates for the two corner outfield spots. Max Kepler and Joey Gallo are veterans and both are good defenders. For Gordon to get ample playing time as a corner outfielder, where he's been at his best defensively, he will have to displace one of Gallo or Kepler plus be better than Matt Wallner, Trevor Larnach and Alex Kirilloff. There are DH at bats available and Kepler in particular has been rumored to be on the block, 

Despite the improvement Nick Gordon has made and acknowledging his progress as a hitter and improved health, I think Gordon is a trade candidate, particularly since Kyle Farmer looks like the principle backup in the middle infield. I don't know how other organizations would value Gordon and whether he could get a suitable return, but despite what he has done in the last two years, Nick Gordon could well not have much of a role with the 2023 Twins.

There is no way Gordon is the starting left fielder unless the FO totally botches the roster. Last year he showed that he can play both infield and outfield, but I see him as a utility player, not a starting outfielder. 

[Otaknam]

2 hours ago, August J Gloop said:

Because Joey Gallo has been worth 54 runs above average offensively for his career (including last year's -6). Last year was a total disaster for him, you bet. But his trend is generally very good. The projections have him listed as a 1.2-1.5 win player, but that's because they all seem to agree that he's suddenly not going to be able to field his position. If he puts in the D that's been the norm for his career, he creeps up to a 2.5 win player. If he hits like 2021 (ancient history) he's a 4 win player. That's the idea behind Gallo. You're free to disagree that any of it is actually possible, but now you know the idea behind it.  

Nick Gordon was worse in 2021 than Gallo was in 2022. Yet here we are in 2023 saying that Gordon is the guy we have to find room for. Never mind His projections for 2023 are worse than Gallo's. 

I wouldn't be surprised to see Gordon sent out to a team who has their own projections rating him higher. Maybe the Yankees would prefer Gordon to Kepler. Or he could be the ceremonial piece in the purchase of a prospect and high priced veteran like Sale and Marcello Mayer (hee hee).  

I wouldn’t touch Chris Sale unless the Yankees picked up most of his salary and would only require a low level middling prospect.

[Major League Ready]

On 1/17/2023 at 3:29 PM, DJL44 said:

Nick Gordon is a good option for a team that is above the luxury tax (Yankees). The Twins could trade him for an equally good but more expensive player and buy a prospect or two.

Why not trade Kepler and eat his 2023 salary in order to get a better return?

[stringer bell]

47 minutes ago, KBJ1 said:

 Farmer is needed as backup to 3B & SS while Gordon can cover 2B and OF.

Arraez is the odd man out due to his lack of fielding ability. 

 

Let’s discuss second base. If Jorge Polanco is healthy , he’s the second baseman for 140 or more games. Again, presuming health for those involved, Farmer should be the backup given a start against left handers (Polanco has pretty pronounced splits, being better against right handed pitching).  Against right handers, Arraez is the better choice to fill in if he’s available.

In left field, the Twins didn’t spend $11M so that Joey Gallo can sit on the bench. Despite what Nick achieved last year, there isn’t a clear path to playing time for Gordon. 
 

I am sure there has been plenty of conversation on the acquisition of Gallo (I don’t get it either), there is redundancy in the corner outfield and there doesn’t appear to much playing time in the infield. Injuries could completely change all of that. Rocco will get everyone playing time, but I do stand by the original thought that Gordon’s appearances might be limited. 

[Riverbrian]

23 hours ago, Twodogs said:

If the season plays out and they aren't the best then you move on from them.    Why I mean if the Twins don't expect them to be the best on the Twins then why would some team like the Marlins or any other team for that matter want them at all?would teams be considering these guys for trades if the Twins don't even consider them to be the best on the team?  So I think you have to start off with Kepler and Gallo and when they prove not to be the best you move on.

But going into a season, you can't expect your best players not to be the best. 

In my opinion... going into a season, you can't expect any front office or manager to possess the ability to identify which players are going to be the best. 

If they could identify which players are going to be the best. They would have an advantage over the other 29 front offices who can't do it with 100% certainty either. 

If they could identify which players are going to be the best. Going into the 2022 season. Gordon would have been placed above Kepler last year because Gordon was the best. Pagan would not have been allowed to blow 4 games against the Cleveland Guardians. 

If the season plays out and they aren't the best then you move on from them

How does this prep the players who will replace them? 

I mean if the Twins don't expect them to be the best on the Twins then why would some team like the Marlins or any other team for that matter want them at all?  Why would teams be considering these guys for trades if the Twins don't even consider them to be the best on the team?

Do they? Do you have inside information on who the Marlins or any team is asking for? What are they willing to give up in return? 

How do you expect the Marlins to want a player like Gordon if you continue to bench him after he out performs the guy you are starting? If Gordon performs better at the minimum with 5 years of control than the guy with 1 year of control at 8M. Which player carries more value in a potential trade? 

 

[Twodogs]

1 hour ago, Riverbrian said:

But going into a season, you can't expect your best players not to be the best. 

In my opinion... going into a season, you can't expect any front office or manager to possess the ability to identify which players are going to be the best. 

If they could identify which players are going to be the best. They would have an advantage over the other 29 front offices who can't do it with 100% certainty either. 

If they could identify which players are going to be the best. Going into the 2022 season. Gordon would have been placed above Kepler last year because Gordon was the best. Pagan would not have been allowed to blow 4 games against the Cleveland Guardians. 

If the season plays out and they aren't the best then you move on from them

How does this prep the players who will replace them? 

I mean if the Twins don't expect them to be the best on the Twins then why would some team like the Marlins or any other team for that matter want them at all?  Why would teams be considering these guys for trades if the Twins don't even consider them to be the best on the team?

Do they? Do you have inside information on who the Marlins or any team is asking for? What are they willing to give up in return? 

How do you expect the Marlins to want a player like Gordon if you continue to bench him after he out performs the guy you are starting? If Gordon performs better at the minimum with 5 years of control than the guy with 1 year of control at 8M. Which player carries more value in a potential trade? 

 

OMG.

Are you telling me that I'm making up the fact that the Twins are shopping Kepler?  (Do I need some inside information)?????  I mean there are probably 20 articles out there that are talking Max Kepler trades, what are you telling me you haven't seen any of these??  

 

Who had the higher WAR last year?  Kepler did, (and it was a crappy season for him and still had a higher WAR) and Gordon had more at bats and still had a lower WAR (and we are all talking about how great of a job he did with a lower WAR).  So like I've said all along, (ON PAPER!) Buxton, Gallo and Kepler are the Twins best option right now.  (ON PAPER!!). That's not to say that I'm even disagreeing with you per se.  I like Nick Gordon.  I thought he did great last year.  But on paper Buxton, Gallo and Kepler are the 3 best guys right now.  I mean Buxton might only play 10 games before a season ending injury.  I mean that's not totally unimaginable, but you don't go into the season assuming that.  You (assume) he going to be one of your best, that's why you've paid him.  I mean Gordon spent much of his time playing for Buxton last year.  

 

How do you prep players that will replace them?  How did they prep Gordon to replace Buxton last year?? The same way every player preps for a season.  You prep to play and if the situation arises you go out and handle it.  

 

None of this changes the fact that (every) front office in baseball goes into a season expecting their best players to play the best.  Every front office in baseball has contingency plans if someone gets hurt or doesn't perform up to (expectations).  

[Riverbrian]

4 hours ago, Twodogs said:

OMG.

Are you telling me that I'm making up the fact that the Twins are shopping Kepler?  (Do I need some inside information)?????  I mean there are probably 20 articles out there that are talking Max Kepler trades, what are you telling me you haven't seen any of these??  

 

 

OMG? 

I have seen those articles... However... I am not inclined to go down this rabbit hole again. This inclination to draw conclusions based on little bits of information from someone getting fed nformation that someone wants fed to them... isn't going to work with me.

After you have read the articles, tweets. Can you answer these questions?

How interested are these teams?

Are these interested teams willing to take on all 8.5M and give up a significant player in return? That would suggest significant interest. 

Are they willing to give up a player that they will DFA eventually or a low level prospect in return? That would suggest minimal interest?

Are they asking the Twins to pay a portion or all of the 8.5M like they did with Rogers? That certainly changes the equation and level of interest. 

Are they looking to shed a bad contract in return for Kepler? 

Are these rumored teams still interested... Maybe they have addressed that need in another way and moved on? 

Are the Twins still trying to trade Kepler or have they moved on?

Are the Twins kicking tires or are they actively making phone calls every day trying to move him off the roster? 

If they are trying to move him off the roster is it a salary dump because they would like that 8.5 million off the books and hoping someone would be willing to take on that payroll. 

Are they trying to move him off the roster because they are trying to balance the roster?

If you haven't read an article suggesting interest in Nick Gordon does that mean that nobody is interested? 

Does it mean that the Twins are not letting Gordon go but yet willing to let Kepler go? If so... What does that mean? 

If you can... would you be so kind and let us all know the answers to the questions listed above. We would all like to know the answers. 

If you can't... Don't OMG me or use words like "FACT". Because all you have is the same information that I have.

 

[Riverbrian]

4 hours ago, Twodogs said:

How do you prep players that will replace them?  How did they prep Gordon to replace Buxton last year?? The same way every player preps for a season.  You prep to play and if the situation arises you go out and handle it.  

Last April... Nick Gordon started 13 out of 21 games. They got him in the lineup. If you are OK getting him in the lineup. We are not in disagreement. 

[old nurse]

On 1/19/2023 at 12:44 PM, Otaknam said:

I wouldn’t touch Chris Sale unless the Yankees picked up most of his salary and would only require a low level middling prospect.

That would be one heck of a trade as Sale is a Red Sox

[old nurse]

Trading Kepler, or Gordon is to get a lottery ticket or two or maybe a middle reliever. The only reason to move any of them is that the team has a prospect that is unquestionably ready. Well, there would be a hope by many here that hope for a trade of Pagan. That would need a sweetener 

[chpettit19]

On 1/19/2023 at 11:33 AM, JD-TWINS said:

Gordon was battling an intestinal issue for years - gained 25lb over 1st 6 months of ‘22. Had 28 doubles & 9 HR in 405 AB’s in ‘22. New found strength & endurance continues to grow going forward with his health improvements. He’s a 15 HR - 40 double guy with 575AB’s. Same OF versatility as Gallo. Only played OF one year professionally.

Gallo is a career .199 hitter. Not really that concerned in what he did in his career year of ‘21. He’s potentially 2 months into the season from being DFA’d. He’s got a bunch of talent around him (gotta perform) and if he succeeds, great!! Just don’t see Nick Gordon being the odd man out.

Kepler has got to be traded. Makes sense for return talent in trade. Makes baseball sense based on Larnach - Walner - Kirilof - Gordon - Gallo (all LH hitting OF) being the other 5 of 6 outfielders in the organization. Makes $ sense to rid organization of his salary.

It's interesting that you're "not really that concerned in what he did in his career year of '21" for Gallo, but you are very concerned about what Gordon did in his career year of 2022. Nick Gordon had 1.9 bWAR and 1.5 fWAR last year. Not a bad season at all. But let's compare that to all of Gallo's seasons before that "career year of '21."

Before the absolute total system failure of 2022 for Joey Gallo, his lowest season ever (once he was a starter for more than 100 games) of bWAR was 1.6. And that was in a shortened 2020 season. Joey Gallo's absolute worst season (before 2022) was a 1.6 bWAR in 57 games. Nick Gordon's absolute best season was 1.9 in 136 games. Extra 79 games and Gordon beat him by .3 bWAR.

As for fWAR, Gallo's worst year was again the 2020 season where he only played 57 games and had a 1 fWAR. In an extra 79 games Gordon was able to eclipse him by .5 fWAR. Shoot, in Gallo's complete disaster of a 2022 season Gordon only beat him by .9 fWAR in an extra 10 games.

I'm not a huge fan of the Gallo signing because of his fit on this team. But pretending that Gallo doesn't have a ceiling dramatically higher than Gordon is ignoring a whole lot of data. And before you get into "Gordon is young and improving" kind of stuff just know that Gallo is slightly less than 2 years older than Gordon. I like Gordon, and think he's an amazing utility guy, but let's have a little perspective here. He's a 27 year old who's still trying to break through. We'll see how the league adjusts to him and his crazy aggressive approach at the plate.

[Twodogs]

2 hours ago, Riverbrian said:

OMG? 

I have seen those articles... However... I am not inclined to go down this rabbit hole again. This inclination to draw conclusions based on little bits of information from someone getting fed nformation that someone wants fed to them... isn't going to work with me.

After you have read the articles, tweets. Can you answer these questions?

How interested are these teams?

Are these interested teams willing to take on all 8.5M and give up a significant player in return? That would suggest significant interest. 

Are they willing to give up a player that they will DFA eventually or a low level prospect in return? That would suggest minimal interest?

Are they asking the Twins to pay a portion or all of the 8.5M like they did with Rogers? That certainly changes the equation and level of interest. 

Are they looking to shed a bad contract in return for Kepler? 

Are these rumored teams still interested... Maybe they have addressed that need in another way and moved on? 

Are the Twins still trying to trade Kepler or have they moved on?

Are the Twins kicking tires or are they actively making phone calls every day trying to move him off the roster? 

If they are trying to move him off the roster is it a salary dump because they would like that 8.5 million off the books and hoping someone would be willing to take on that payroll. 

Are they trying to move him off the roster because they are trying to balance the roster?

If you haven't read an article suggesting interest in Nick Gordon does that mean that nobody is interested? 

Does it mean that the Twins are not letting Gordon go but yet willing to let Kepler go? If so... What does that mean? 

If you can... would you be so kind and let us all know the answers to the questions listed above. We would all like to know the answers. 

If you can't... Don't OMG me or use words like "FACT". Because all you have is the same information that I have.

 

 

2 hours ago, Riverbrian said:

OMG? 

I have seen those articles... However... I am not inclined to go down this rabbit hole again. This inclination to draw conclusions based on little bits of information from someone getting fed nformation that someone wants fed to them... isn't going to work with me.

After you have read the articles, tweets. Can you answer these questions?

How interested are these teams?

Are these interested teams willing to take on all 8.5M and give up a significant player in return? That would suggest significant interest. 

Are they willing to give up a player that they will DFA eventually or a low level prospect in return? That would suggest minimal interest?

Are they asking the Twins to pay a portion or all of the 8.5M like they did with Rogers? That certainly changes the equation and level of interest. 

Are they looking to shed a bad contract in return for Kepler? 

Are these rumored teams still interested... Maybe they have addressed that need in another way and moved on? 

Are the Twins still trying to trade Kepler or have they moved on?

Are the Twins kicking tires or are they actively making phone calls every day trying to move him off the roster? 

If they are trying to move him off the roster is it a salary dump because they would like that 8.5 million off the books and hoping someone would be willing to take on that payroll. 

Are they trying to move him off the roster because they are trying to balance the roster?

If you haven't read an article suggesting interest in Nick Gordon does that mean that nobody is interested? 

Does it mean that the Twins are not letting Gordon go but yet willing to let Kepler go? If so... What does that mean? 

If you can... would you be so kind and let us all know the answers to the questions listed above. We would all like to know the answers. 

If you can't... Don't OMG me or use words like "FACT". Because all you have is the same information that I have.

 

And I don't believe you any more than I believe them.  But where there is smoke there is usually some fire.  Also I believe in my first reply I mentioned kicking tires.  So yeah I don't know all of the details, but I do know people have been talking and that's what I've alluded to.  You didn't like my take or just wanted to argue semantics and have been trying to prove nothing the whole time.  My take is still a team is going to assume before the season that their best players will play the best.

[Twodogs]

2 hours ago, Riverbrian said:

Last April... Nick Gordon started 13 out of 21 games. They got him in the lineup. If you are OK getting him in the lineup. We are not in disagreement. 

Oh for sure.  Heck yeah, if anyone gets in the lineup and does good I'm all for continuing to play them.  Like I said I like Nick Gordon, and right now Buxton, Kepler and Gallo are probably penciled in to start at those positions, unless of course Kepler gets moved, which there's been a lot of talk about the possibility of it.  I feel Gordon definitely plays a role on this team.  Also, if they keep Kepler, and he proves to stink, and Gordon does better I'm all for reversing their roles.  I just think that will have to wait and see what happens type of thing.

[Riverbrian]

1 minute ago, Twodogs said:

Oh for sure.  Heck yeah, if anyone gets in the lineup and does good I'm all for continuing to play them.  Like I said I like Nick Gordon, and right now Buxton, Kepler and Gallo are probably penciled in to start at those positions, unless of course Kepler gets moved, which there's been a lot of talk about the possibility of it.  I feel Gordon definitely plays a role on this team.

Then Yeah... We are arguing over a misunderstanding. I ask your forgiveness because there are posters here that only look at a starting 9 and the rest are break glass in case of emergency utilization. I assumed that was where the discussion was headed.   

I want the players to make the determination for the front office with performance. I don't want the front office to make pre-determined choices and sticking with them because they are wrong often enough. Player evaluation is a hard job. I don't want struggling players walking past the lineup card because they know that their name will be somewhere on it. 

I don't mind the team paying Gallo 11M and Kepler 8.5. I do mind if they pay them 11M and 8.5 to take the team down.  

[Twodogs]

2 hours ago, Riverbrian said:

Then Yeah... We are arguing over a misunderstanding. I ask your forgiveness because there are posters here that only look at a starting 9 and the rest are break glass in case of emergency utilization. I assumed that was where the discussion was headed.   

I want the players to make the determination for the front office with performance. I don't want the front office to make pre-determined choices and sticking with them because they are wrong often enough. Player evaluation is a hard job. I don't want struggling players walking past the lineup card because they know that their name will be somewhere on it. 

I don't mind the team paying Gallo 11M and Kepler 8.5. I do mind if they pay them 11M and 8.5 to take the team down.  

For sure, I hope you accept my apology also because I attacked back when I could have just said we disagree on something.  But yeah to me there are no absolutes.  The guys playing the best should get to play the most.  I hope and pray as a twins fan that Gallo and Kepler lean towards their best evers and not the most recent.