2023 Vikings Off Season Thread

[Mike Sixel]

3 hours ago, nicksaviking said:

Yeah, it seems barely realistic now, and Richardson is going to put on a show at the combine and during workouts. I wouldn't be surprised if his crazy athletic talent ends up putting him as the #2 QB come draft day.

Either way, I'm game for getting a QB in this draft, even if it means trading up. It's not going to be the fashionable decision, but this looks like a pretty dang good QB draft class, in the rare years the Vikings find themselves in the top 10, it's usually a bad draft class. 2024 doesn't look nearly as good, and regardless of which players stay and which go, I could see the Vikings picking early in 2024. Don't want to reach for a Christian Ponder next year just because that's the year you finally need one for certain.

They'd have to give up next year's whole draft (slight exaggeration, but not much) to get one of the QBs this year....I'd deal for more picks next year and punt this year, potentially. I've read next year's class is better (but you read that alot). Gonna be hard to get a QB this year, frankly. LOTS of teams ahead of MN need QBs and have more trade capital.

[Parfigliano]

As usual the Vikes are in draft no mans land.

[Mike Sixel]

The more I think about this, the more I'd approach the owners and tell them I want to blow up the team (outside three OL and JJ) and start over (if I was the GM and coach). I'd trade for as many picks in next year's draft as possible. They gave us a fun year this year.....I'd be ok with two bad years for the improved odds of long term success.

[Mike Sixel]

Dalvin's agent posting things on Twitter that sure hint he expects not to be in MN anymore....

[Vanimal46]

1 hour ago, Mike Sixel said:

Dalvin's agent posting things on Twitter that sure hint he expects not to be in MN anymore....

Best for both parties to move on. Hopefully we can find a trade partner at the scouting combine. If not, let him loose on the free agent market. 

[nicksaviking]

44 minutes ago, Vanimal46 said:

Best for both parties to move on. Hopefully we can find a trade partner at the scouting combine. If not, let him loose on the free agent market. 

That's not going to be popular but it's what I expect. It's probably the right move too.

[Mike Sixel]

28 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

That's not going to be popular but it's what I expect. It's probably the right move too.

Agreed. The only way you can deal him is for a LATE pick.....and even then, I doubt it.

[nicksaviking]

1 hour ago, Mike Sixel said:

Agreed. The only way you can deal him is for a LATE pick.....and even then, I doubt it.

Or maybe not for a pick. I suppose there's a team out there with a defensive player in the same spot as Cook. I want this team to get younger, so I'm not sure that's really my cup of tea, but with all the holes to fill on defense, they're probably trying to get creative.

I guess the Rams are shopping Jalen Ramsey too and they seem to be having RB troubles as of late. I'd still pass on something like that.

[Vanimal46]

I’d rather take my chances that CB Byron Murphy Jr. takes a leap forward as a 25 year old free agent vs. 29 year old Jalen Ramsey. His elite days are over. 

[Vanimal46]

2 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

Agreed. The only way you can deal him is for a LATE pick.....and even then, I doubt it.

Yeah, unfortunately there’s not too many teams that will give up a 5th round pick for him. My hope is one of the Florida teams so they can play the “he’s coming home” card. But it’s a hard sell to trade a pick away and take on $6-8 million in salary when they can do what we want to do… Draft a RB and go cheap. 

[nicksaviking]

17 hours ago, Vanimal46 said:

Yeah, unfortunately there’s not too many teams that will give up a 5th round pick for him. My hope is one of the Florida teams so they can play the “he’s coming home” card. But it’s a hard sell to trade a pick away and take on $6-8 million in salary when they can do what we want to do… Draft a RB and go cheap. 

Yeah, and then how long will teams want to wait? I mean doesn't every team that wants a RB want to see what happens with Pollard, Barkley and Jacobs first? And then the RBs that are probably closer to Cooks tier, say Sanders, Montgomery and maybe Jamaal Williams, Devin Singletery and Kareem Hunt will have to wait until those top guys are off the board. And then there are ten other guys even below them who were good enough to start last year and could interest teams for any number of reasons.

[Mike Sixel]

Apparently the GM didn't mention either current starting ILB when talking options..... And was pretty clear Cook was not staying at this price 

[nicksaviking]

35 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

Apparently the GM didn't mention either current starting ILB when talking options..... And was pretty clear Cook was not staying at this price 

And we thought the bluntness went out the door with Zimmer!

I'm mostly curious to see what happens with Hunter. Obviously the contract is an issue, but he clearly wasn't used correctly last year, does Flores know how to use him right? Probably. Is his contract worth the gamble? Not sure.

[Mike Sixel]

25 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

And we thought the bluntness went out the door with Zimmer!

I'm mostly curious to see what happens with Hunter. Obviously the contract is an issue, but he clearly wasn't used correctly last year, does Flores know how to use him right? Probably. Is his contract worth the gamble? Not sure.

He was actually good last year, even though he was used wrong. Frankly, given you want him rushing the QB every play, I don't get the 3-4 alignment, but I'm no technician.....I bet they keep both him and Zadarius. If 2 of the 3 injured DBs from last year's draft are even decent next year, the D looks very different with competent ILBs are using Hunter correctly. Very different.

[Danchat]

I wrote an extensive Offseason Guide on what the Vikings might do - you can find it here, but here's a preview:

Quote

Releases / Cuts

ILB Eric Kendricks (saves $9.5M, leaves $1.93M of dead cap)

This move was hinted at when they didn’t restructure his contract last year, but Kendricks’ play really fell off a cliff in 2022 after he had a relatively shaky 2021. He wasn’t a fit in Donatell’s zone-heavy coverage scheme, but his play against the run plummeted in the second half of the season, and it was hard to watch. I don’t see the point of a price reduction, they need to start fresh at the LB position – not just for the future, but also for the defense being good in 2023.

ILB Jordan Hicks (saves $5M, leaves $1.5M of dead cap)

I called this move the worst free agent signing during the 2022 offseason, and I stand by it. Hicks wasn’t a huge liability as he was better than Kendricks against the run, but he’s never been good in coverage and he got worse at it as he’s entered his 30s. He’s a two down linebacker at this point, which is something you can find for cheaper than $5M.

Quote

Players Being Let Go

C Garrett Bradbury – I can’t do it. Bradbury took a big step forward and looks like he can function as an average center in the NFL, but he’s still a liability in pass protection. That shouldn’t fly in O’Connell’s pass heavy scheme.

CB Patrick Peterson – He’s coming off a quality year, but he’s a mismatch for Flores’ man-heavy system and Peterson’s age regression is going to kick in at some point. It’s better to move on a year early rather than a year too late.

Quote

Free Agent Signings

Sign ILB David Long – 4 years, $36M

It’s imperative that we find a veteran LB to pair with Asamoah on the open market so we’re not forced to use a high pick on one. Long fits the bill and he’s on the young side (26). He was an important cog on a constantly overachieving Titans defense coming off a career year as a run stopper, and can hold his own in coverage. He’ll be a massive upgrade to Kendricks and Hicks.

Sign C Connor McGovern – 3 years, $21M

With Ed Ingram likely to keep his RG job, a team seriously considering a SB run needs a better iOL than we currently have, and the easiest way to do that is to let Bradbury walk and find an upgrade. McGovern isn’t a substantial upgrade, but he is a consistently stronger pass protector, which is important in our pass-heavy offense. He didn’t quite live up to his $9M APY deal in New York and is 30 now, so I think $7M a year is fair.

 

[Vanimal46]

1 hour ago, Danchat said:

I wrote an extensive Offseason Guide on what the Vikings might do - you can find it here, but here's a preview:

 

Good plan @Danchat . Especially since the theme of your plan is push all the chips in for a SB, which I can see the Wilfs dictating. Not a big fan of the 2/$80 extension for Kirk… But not inconceivable. I’m good with anything except a long term (3+ year) extension for him.

I’ve heard on Vikings podcasts that a Brian O’Niell restructure saves the team $10 million in cap space. So you may be selling that too low in your plan. 

Instead of Bradberry, I’m targeting Byron Murphy Jr instead (if he hits the market). Bradberry for pennies on the dollar that Philly paid is a steal. Him at full price? Meh. 

Don’t have too much of an opinion on the draft yet. I will say right now my draft crushes are LB Trenton Simpson, NT Siaki Ika, and C John Michael Schmitz. 

[nicksaviking]

3 hours ago, Danchat said:

I wrote an extensive Offseason Guide on what the Vikings might do - you can find it here, but here's a preview:

 

A lot of good ideas, but it looks a lot like treading water overall. Unless merely chasing WC games is the goal, you can’t extend Cousins. Need to pull the plug on Thielan too. Not sure how I feel about an extension for Hockenson either. If best case scenario is they’re ready to complete in two years, will he be past his prime? 
 

I think you do JJ, the O-line and clean slate. No new faces over 28. No extensions unless they’re a likely legit asset in 2025 and beyond.

[Danchat]

1 hour ago, Vanimal46 said:

I’ve heard on Vikings podcasts that a Brian O’Niell restructure saves the team $10 million in cap space. So you may be selling that too low in your plan. 

O'Neill's cap hits could get up to $23M / $25M the next two seasons if you go for the max restructure... so I'd rather not push his salary back too far.

14 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

A lot of good ideas, but it looks a lot like treading water overall. Unless merely chasing WC games is the goal, you can’t extend Cousins. Need to pull the plug on Thielan too. Not sure how I feel about an extension for Hockenson either. If best case scenario is they’re ready to complete in two years, will he be past his prime?

The point of the plan was to differentiate from my past two years where I did just that - I traded away Kirk both times, so I feel like it would have been same-y to just do that again, so instead I tried a "all-in" plan.

They traded for Hockenson with the intention to extend him, and good TEs can play into their 30s. I think Hock is a good one, so even in a nuclear reboot they should extend him. The alternative is to trade him for less draft capital than what you traded him for at the deadline last year, which doesn't make a lot of sense.

[Vanimal46]

Really fascinating article to read. The ability to quickly process what’s happening on the field and how much space you have to work with is so crucial to QB success. No wonder why Purdy saw immediate success if he tested similarly to Drew Brees, Mahomes, and Josh Allen. 

This company is only contracted to work with 14 NFL teams, and hopefully the Vikings are one of them. 

On a positive note, they mentioned at the end of the article that this QB class tested significantly better than last year’s class. Makes me interested in drafting a QB from this class that tested well. 

[nicksaviking]

9 hours ago, Danchat said:

The point of the plan was to differentiate from my past two years where I did just that - I traded away Kirk both times, so I feel like it would have been same-y to just do that again, so instead I tried a "all-in" plan.

They traded for Hockenson with the intention to extend him, and good TEs can play into their 30s. I think Hock is a good one, so even in a nuclear reboot they should extend him. The alternative is to trade him for less draft capital than what you traded him for at the deadline last year, which doesn't make a lot of sense.

As far as an "all-in" plan goes, it was good. I'm just not on board with going all-in since I see zero chance of a championship.

As to Hockenson, it was a great all-in trade last year, but again, that team had zero shot at winning a championship, so it was kind of window dressing, even at the time. I'm not against extending him, but they do need more draft capital, and he might be one of the most attractive pieces they have since he's still in his prime (though they better draft significantly better in year 2). I wouldn't think too hard about what they gave up to get him compared to what they'd get for him now. He's a good, but not an elite TE, I'm not sure a 2nd is off the table. A 3rd is probably a reasonable expectation.

[Vanimal46]

This update almost certainly drops Carter out of the top 5. Maybe the first half of the 1st round. 

[nicksaviking]

1 hour ago, Vanimal46 said:

This update almost certainly drops Carter out of the top 5. Maybe the first half of the 1st round. 

He'll be off of a lot of boards altogether knowing how many teams operate.

Saying that, the Raiders still draft at #7. Unfortunately for Carter, the Browns already traded their 1st rounder for an even worse criminal. They'd have had no qualms taking him.

[Mike Sixel]

1 hour ago, nicksaviking said:

As far as an "all-in" plan goes, it was good. I'm just not on board with going all-in since I see zero chance of a championship.

As to Hockenson, it was a great all-in trade last year, but again, that team had zero shot at winning a championship, so it was kind of window dressing, even at the time. I'm not against extending him, but they do need more draft capital, and he might be one of the most attractive pieces they have since he's still in his prime (though they better draft significantly better in year 2). I wouldn't think too hard about what they gave up to get him compared to what they'd get for him now. He's a good, but not an elite TE, I'm not sure a 2nd is off the table. A 3rd is probably a reasonable expectation.

In fairness all three DBs they took got hurt.... One of those was predictable, but worth the shot, imo. 

I'm in the blow it up group, but in no way expect that

[gunnarthor]

I'm really happy to see this. Flores' case will go to court and not just to Goodell in arbitration. Big win for Flores. I imagine the NFL will try to settle this now but we'll see. 

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/nfl-coach-brian-flores-discrimination-165818973.html

[Vanimal46]

Really impressive workouts from the EDGE and LB group yesterday at the combine. Nolan Smith from Georgia will be rewarded with a fat NFL check. I’m guessing he is high on the Vikings draft board. 

[Mike Sixel]

Assuming they don't trade up for one of the three QBs I want, I want DL all day. A crazy great LBer is also good, at is a DB.... But that front needs talent. 

[gunnarthor]

33 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

Assuming they don't trade up for one of the three QBs I want, I want DL all day. A crazy great LBer is also good, at is a DB.... But that front needs talent. 

I saw a recent mock that had Richardson going first overall. So that pipe dream of him falling to the Vikings seems impossible. I agree on DL but I'm not sure this is the draft for that. From what I've read, this is a good draft for corners so we might get a solid one in the third. But it also might be the type of draft where you just grab a bunch of CB/S/tweener types and let Flores figure out how to use them. 

[Mike Sixel]

3 minutes ago, gunnarthor said:

I saw a recent mock that had Richardson going first overall. So that pipe dream of him falling to the Vikings seems impossible. I agree on DL but I'm not sure this is the draft for that. From what I've read, this is a good draft for corners so we might get a solid one in the third. But it also might be the type of draft where you just grab a bunch of CB/S/tweener types and let Flores figure out how to use them. 

I've always thought teams should get S that are too big, or LB that are too small, and use them to cover TE and blitz.....

I don't follow the draft quite like I used to, just fix the D.... 

[Mike Sixel]

Rumor is that Daniel Jones will sign a new deal paying At least $40 million a year!

[nicksaviking]

On 3/3/2023 at 6:05 PM, Mike Sixel said:

Rumor is that Daniel Jones will sign a new deal paying At least $40 million a year!

That's nuts. Just goes to show how much value there is in finding a stud young QB you can pay peanuts for his first 4 years.