GAME THREAD: New York Giants at Minnesota Vikings, NFC Wild Card Game, 01/15/2023 @ 3:40 pm on FOX

[Aggies7]

2 minutes ago, Hosken Bombo Disco said:

HOWEVER the Minnesota Gophers football team did win their bowl game in Yankee Stadium this year! 

That is true, and against Syracuse!

[Aggies7]

Really sucks after watching the Vikings, seeing teams like Miami and Baltimore, big underdogs, give a good battle in their games. I just don’t know how long I’ll have to live to see a champion. It may never happen.

[Mike Sixel]

2 hours ago, Vanimal46 said:

He did not literally carry the team this year. And you don’t tear down everything including young OL because you don’t have the long term QB on roster. 

Which QB will you get to win next year? If not next year, why not year it down? 

[Aggies7]

54 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

Which QB will you get to win next year? If not next year, why not year it down? 

No clue what the college QB class will be like after NEXT season, but I assume a top 15 pick in the 2024 draft. Around 500. Maybe top 10 if things go really badly. Could be helpful 

[Mike Sixel]

8 minutes ago, Aggies7 said:

No clue what the college QB class will be like after NEXT season, but I assume a top 15 pick in the 2024 draft. Around 500. Maybe top 10 if things go really badly. Could be helpful 

I'm asking people that want to get rid of Kirk what happens next year? Why keep any player that will be done after next year, if you don't have a QB next year? 

[sampleSizeOfOne]

I blame myself. I done jinxed it, participatin' this thead an' all. Why'd go and do a fool thing like that?

Silver lining is i don't have to follow them anymore this season.

[LVTwinsfan]

Nobody wants to see the defense for how bad they really are. The Giants had over 33 minutes of possession, why, because the defense can’t get off the field. The offense played good enough to win, the defense didn’t play good enough to beat anybody. Complaining about the offense and Cousins is ridiculous if you ignore the shortcomings of the defense. The defense has been the reason we had to make all those 4 th quarter comebacks in most of these games. The defense is the reason we lost yesterday, period. 

[nicksaviking]

14 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

He led 8 come back wins this year..... The defense forced one punt, and it's on Kirk? 

It's not on Kirk.

But the final play shows precisely why Kirk will never win a team the Super Bowl. Mahomes, Brady, Rodgers, Allen, none of them would have EVER thrown short of the sticks with no chance of a 4th down conversion and the season on the line. Sure, he could pull a Flacco and be a QB on a team that wins a Super Bowl, but he'll never beat 3-4 playoff caliber teams in a row by putting the team on his back. He'd need a great defense making most of the plays. And, the Vikings aren't close to having that.

[Aggies7]

I’m not sure there were many better options on that final play. We only needed 8 yards and most of the WRs were running deep patterns. He was also about to get sacked because our OLine is horrendous. It was an odd play call IMO and it should not tarnish what Kirk did this season.
 

He’s one tough SOB to get hit and sacked as much as he did this season and not miss more a snap. It’s a shame we haven’t had an offensive line since 2009. It’s a shame we haven’t had a defense since 2017. And it’s a shame we’re wasting years of a really good QB because we have nothing around him. Daniel Jones looked like a top 5 QB in large part because we could get no pressure on him.

[Aggies7]

37 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

It's not on Kirk.

But the final play shows precisely why Kirk will never win a team the Super Bowl. Mahomes, Brady, Rodgers, Allen, none of them would have EVER thrown short of the sticks with no chance of a 4th down conversion and the season on the line. Sure, he could pull a Flacco and be a QB on a team that wins a Super Bowl, but he'll never beat 3-4 playoff caliber teams in a row by putting the team on his back. He'd need a great defense making most of the plays. And, the Vikings aren't close to having that.

I disagree. I watched all the games this weekend and he played every bit as well if not better than anyone else outside of daniel jones, and DJ could have read War and Peace during his dropbacks with all the time he had. Everyone will remember the final play but he was the ONLY reason we even had a shot to begin with. I’m glad he’s out QB and he gets an insane amount of hate.

Defense gave up 430 yards, another game of more than 400. Gave up more than 400 yards in 7 of the last 10 games. Until that gets even partially rectified, there’s no QB in the league who can win with that. None not even mahomes 

[nicksaviking]

39 minutes ago, Aggies7 said:

I’m not sure there were many better options on that final play. We only needed 8 yards and most of the WRs were running deep patterns. He was also about to get sacked because our OLine is horrendous. It was an odd play call IMO and it should not tarnish what Kirk did this season.
 

He’s one tough SOB to get hit and sacked as much as he did this season and not miss more a snap. It’s a shame we haven’t had an offensive line since 2009. It’s a shame we haven’t had a defense since 2017. And it’s a shame we’re wasting years of a really good QB because we have nothing around him. Daniel Jones looked like a top 5 QB in large part because we could get no pressure on him.

I completely agree that the Defense was 100% at fault. Daniel Jones threw for 300 yards three times this year. twice against the Vikings. 

The other game was when the Giants were down 24-6 in the forth against the Lions, which obviously is a recipe for every NFL QB to throw for 300 yards.

I'm just saying that Cousins isn't a guy who can win 3-4 playoff games himself. The top QBs can do that. Even though it was one single play where Cousins choked, and he did choke, that was the one play all year long where it would actually doom the season. Chucking it up in the middle of the field in the vicinity of one of the WRs would have had a higher chance of success than the pass he made to Hockenson. I'm not blaming him for the loss, not at all, I'm just saying he isn't the solution. Unless the goal is only to simply be a competent team, not actually Super Bowl winning team.

[Aggies7]

1 hour ago, nicksaviking said:

I completely agree that the Defense was 100% at fault. Daniel Jones threw for 300 yards three times this year. twice against the Vikings. 

The other game was when the Giants were down 24-6 in the forth against the Lions, which obviously is a recipe for every NFL QB to throw for 300 yards.

I'm just saying that Cousins isn't a guy who can win 3-4 playoff games himself. The top QBs can do that. Even though it was one single play where Cousins choked, and he did choke, that was the one play all year long where it would actually doom the season. Chucking it up in the middle of the field in the vicinity of one of the WRs would have had a higher chance of success than the pass he made to Hockenson. I'm not blaming him for the loss, not at all, I'm just saying he isn't the solution. Unless the goal is only to simply be a competent team, not actually Super Bowl winning team.

Even the mahomes and Allens of the world can’t win 3-4 playoff games by themselves though. Mahomes has one of the best coaches to ever do it. The rams had stars all over their roster last year. To win that much you need everyone. And you need to avoid the boneheaded mistakes like jumping offsides on 4th and Inches and calling a bizarre pass to your slow QB on 3rd and 1. Has there been that many teams that have won super bowls bc of one quarterback by himself? I can’t imagine so. I believe Kirk is good enough to win us a Super Bowl based on his talent.

[Vanimal46]

1 hour ago, nicksaviking said:

I completely agree that the Defense was 100% at fault. Daniel Jones threw for 300 yards three times this year. twice against the Vikings. 

The other game was when the Giants were down 24-6 in the forth against the Lions, which obviously is a recipe for every NFL QB to throw for 300 yards.

I'm just saying that Cousins isn't a guy who can win 3-4 playoff games himself. The top QBs can do that. Even though it was one single play where Cousins choked, and he did choke, that was the one play all year long where it would actually doom the season. Chucking it up in the middle of the field in the vicinity of one of the WRs would have had a higher chance of success than the pass he made to Hockenson. I'm not blaming him for the loss, not at all, I'm just saying he isn't the solution. Unless the goal is only to simply be a competent team, not actually Super Bowl winning team.

It’s a shame that Kirk built up so much clout this year taking control of the offense more than any time in his career. Then when the season was truly on the line, he throws to the check down who had a 0% chance of getting the first down. Might as well take the sack, because he chose the least likely option to extend the game. 

The pressure was no different than what he saw all season long. He could have rolled out to his right to extend the play. Instead he became a statue and checked down. Season over. 

Both scenarios can be true. The defense was awful all year. And Kirk Cousins failed with the season on the line. 

[Vanimal46]

I expect a massive turnover on defense this offseason…

The entire starting LB group can be released or traded. Kendricks and Hicks are easy releases. Kendricks has lost a step and can’t make the tackle until a player is 8 yards downfield. Hicks was already slow and got torched in coverage all year. ZaDarius Smith had a temporary boost to the defense and faded in the last 8 games. I would trade him if possible. Danielle Hunter is out of position in a 3-4 defense. I’d trade him for a 2nd round pick. 

Pat Peterson likely goes to chase a ring elsewhere. I’d trade Cam Dantzler for a mid round pick. Chandon Sullivan is gone. I am on the fence with Harry the Hitman. Is he open to a restructure again? 

[Aggies7]

13 minutes ago, Vanimal46 said:

I expect a massive turnover on defense this offseason…

The entire starting LB group can be released or traded. Kendricks and Hicks are easy releases. Kendricks has lost a step and can’t make the tackle until a player is 8 yards downfield. Hicks was already slow and got torched in coverage all year. ZaDarius Smith had a temporary boost to the defense and faded in the last 8 games. I would trade him if possible. Danielle Hunter is out of position in a 3-4 defense. I’d trade him for a 2nd round pick. 

Pat Peterson likely goes to chase a ring elsewhere. I’d trade Cam Dantzler for a mid round pick. Chandon Sullivan is gone. I am on the fence with Harry the Hitman. Is he open to a restructure again? 

Cook could be traded for a pick(s). We need a lot of new players and don’t have that many picks

[nicksaviking]

19 hours ago, Aggies7 said:

Cook could be traded for a pick(s). We need a lot of new players and don’t have that many picks

Tony Pollard, Saquan Barkley, Josh Jacobs, Jamaal Williams, Kareem Hunt, Miles Sanders, Devin Singletery, David Montgomery, D'Onta Foreman, Rashaad Penny, Damien Harris, Darrell Henderson, Raheem Mostert, Jeff Wilson, James Robinson and Alex Mattison are all free agents this year. Even if Barkley and Jacobs get franchise tagged, I think teams would rather pay many of these other guys a couple million bucks than pay Cook 10M per year AND give up draft picks.

[cHawk]

On 1/16/2023 at 9:44 AM, Aggies7 said:

Even the mahomes and Allens of the world can’t win 3-4 playoff games by themselves though. Mahomes has one of the best coaches to ever do it. The rams had stars all over their roster last year. To win that much you need everyone. And you need to avoid the boneheaded mistakes like jumping offsides on 4th and Inches and calling a bizarre pass to your slow QB on 3rd and 1. Has there been that many teams that have won super bowls bc of one quarterback by himself? I can’t imagine so. I believe Kirk is good enough to win us a Super Bowl based on his talent.

Correct, and Cousins' 4th-and-8 checkdown was an example of such a boneheaded mistake.

[Craig Arko]

At least it wasn’t 41-doughnut part deux.

[Aggies7]

17 hours ago, cHawk said:

Correct, and Cousins' 4th-and-8 checkdown was an example of such a boneheaded mistake.

Josh Allen had 3 turnovers on Sunday. But he has a team around him to help out. Are we really expecting a quarterback to be literally perfect or we don’t want him? Going to be awfully tough to find a guy like that. Kirk probably had the 3rd or 4th best performance out of the 12 quarterbacks who played this weekend.

[nicksaviking]

42 minutes ago, Aggies7 said:

Josh Allen had 3 turnovers on Sunday. But he has a team around him to help out. Are we really expecting a quarterback to be literally perfect or we don’t want him? Going to be awfully tough to find a guy like that. Kirk probably had the 3rd or 4th best performance out of the 12 quarterbacks who played this weekend.

I don't care about being competent, I only care about winning a Super Bowl. Do you honestly think that if Kirk Cousins was on the Bills, that they'd be a favorite to win it all?

Stefon Diggs clearly doesn't.

[Aggies7]

1 hour ago, nicksaviking said:

I don't care about being competent, I only care about winning a Super Bowl. Do you honestly think that if Kirk Cousins was on the Bills, that they'd be a favorite to win it all?

Stefon Diggs clearly doesn't.

Yeah, I do. He’s turned the ball over less than Josh Allen. If the dolphins weren’t starting a guy who should be in the USFL they probably would have won that game in large part due to Allen’s turnovers. Almost pulled off the massive upset with skylar Thompson at quarterback.

It’s just odd to me that Kirk is the only one on the roster of whom perfection is expected or he should be cut. The defense was the literal worst in the league and we STILL finished with 13 wins almost solely because of the offensive play.

Kirk did what he did while being the third most sacked QB in the league, the most knocked down and the 12th most hurried. Lol what are we really expecting here

[nicksaviking]

15 minutes ago, Aggies7 said:

Yeah, I do. He’s turned the ball over less than Josh Allen. If the dolphins weren’t starting a guy who should be in the USFL they probably would have won that game in large part due to Allen’s turnovers.

It’s just odd to me that Kirk is the only one on the roster of whom perfection is expected or he should be cut. The defense was the literal worst in the league and we STILL finished with 13 wins almost solely because of the offensive play.

Well he's the only one on the roster who makes 35M, it's the nature of the position. One poor decision from the QB can lose the game, heck the season.  That's rarely true of the other positions.

I guess, it probably doesn't matter if we agree if he's capable of carrying a team to a Super Bowl though, because unless we think this team is going to somehow be better next year, Cousins will likely be gone by the time this team is ready to be an actual contender. 

I know there will be disagreements about this, but winning 7, 8 or 9 games is my least favorite place for this team to be. And with no cap space, no draft picks and a super old team, it seems exceedingly unlikely the team will be better than that in 2023.

[nicksaviking]

20 minutes ago, Aggies7 said:

Kirk did what he did while being the third most sacked QB in the league, the most knocked down and the 12th most hurried. Lol what are we really expecting here

I'm expecting to win a Super Bowl. Other than watching Green Bay lose, that's really my only goal at this point in my Vikings fandom. So if they can't win it now (which I never thought they could) then I wish for them to do what it takes to win it in the future, even it it means losing more games now.

[Aggies7]

20 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

Well he's the only one on the roster who makes 35M, it's the nature of the position. One poor decision from the QB can lose the game, heck the season.  That's rarely true of the other positions.

I guess, it probably doesn't matter if we agree if he's capable of carrying a team to a Super Bowl though, because unless we think this team is going to somehow be better next year, Cousins will likely be gone by the time this team is ready to be an actual contender. 

I know there will be disagreements about this, but winning 7, 8 or 9 games is my least favorite place for this team to be. And with no cap space, no draft picks and a super old team, it seems exceedingly unlikely the team will be better than that in 2023.

I’m just saying, if not kirk, then who? I would wager that, despite the loads of negativity he gets nationally, probably about 25 or so teams would take him as their QB, everything else being equal. Quality QBs do not grow on trees. Watch what’s going to happen to GB now that their 3 decade run of HOF quarterback play is over.

I agree that being mired in mediocrity is not where anyone wants to be. And I would be in favor of moving on from him IF we’re doing a total tear down (which we should do IMO). But moving on should be solely because of where we are roster talent/cap wise. If we still expect to be competitive then he’s the guy IMO

[Aggies7]

14 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

I'm expecting to win a Super Bowl. Other than watching Green Bay lose, that's really my only goal at this point in my Vikings fandom. So if they can't win it now (which I never thought they could) then I wish for them to do what it takes to win it in the future, even it it means losing more games now.

I’m in the same boat as you when it comes to that line of thinking

[Mike Sixel]

14 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

I'm expecting to win a Super Bowl. Other than watching Green Bay lose, that's really my only goal at this point in my Vikings fandom. So if they can't win it now (which I never thought they could) then I wish for them to do what it takes to win it in the future, even it it means losing more games now.

That's a fair take. Even if I'm ok with just enjoying the ride, I used to feel your way.

[nicksaviking]

5 minutes ago, Aggies7 said:

I’m just saying, if not kirk, then who? I would wager that, despite the loads of negativity he gets nationally, probably about 25 or so teams would take him as their QB, everything else being equal. Quality QBs do not grow on trees. Watch what’s going to happen to GB now that their 3 decade run of HOF quarterback play is over.

I agree that being mired in mediocrity is not where anyone wants to be. And I would be in favor of moving on from him IF we’re doing a total tear down (which we should do IMO). But moving on should be solely because of where we are roster talent wise. If we still expect to be competitive then he’s the guy IMO

Yeah, and I won't begrudge anyone who views it differently. Certainly some would prefer chasing the .500 record and hoping to sniff a WC appearance. My father for one would absolutely be in that category.

I'm 100% in the, 'let's tear this thing down and hope to get this rebuild over with ASAP' camp though.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Rebuilds in the NFL can be extremely quick. Philly won the Super Bowl in 2017, are the No. 1 seed in 2022, and in between then they were pretty mediocre, including a 4-11 season. 

[Parfigliano]

9 hours ago, nicksaviking said:

Well he's the only one on the roster who makes 35M, it's the nature of the position. One poor decision from the QB can lose the game, heck the season.  That's rarely true of the other positions.

I guess, it probably doesn't matter if we agree if he's capable of carrying a team to a Super Bowl though, because unless we think this team is going to somehow be better next year, Cousins will likely be gone by the time this team is ready to be an actual contender. 

I know there will be disagreements about this, but winning 7, 8 or 9 games is my least favorite place for this team to be. And with no cap space, no draft picks and a super old team, it seems exceedingly unlikely the team will be better than that in 2023.

Winning 7, 8 or 9 games a year frequently in a short time frame is NFL Draft purgatory.