Fill in the blank: The 2023 Twins must ______ or Falvine need to be terminated

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

13 hours ago, Richie the Rally Goat said:

I’ve been asking Brock for a sarc font for years 

YOuvE Been AsKinG brOCK foR a SARC foNt FoR yEArS? 

?

[Parfigliano]

14 hours ago, CRF said:

At least win the friggin central division. It was there for the taking last season, and just about all of their moves backfired. That could be colossal bad luck, or complete ineptness...depending on how you look at it. The injuries were a killer, and Rocco sure didn't help either. We should know within the first 40-50 games, if we have anything this season, or not. There's still time for some trades to change the outlook too. The fans will stay away in droves, if things don't turn around somewhat. I'm not particularly a Falvey/Levine guy, and I don't care for Rocco at all, but who are you gonna replace them with? I'm not smart enough to know, but I honestly wouldn't mind seeing them gone, and take Baldelli with them...PLEASE!

Im hoping the new training trainer staff can get a handle on the injury explosion.

[sjunisu]

19 hours ago, Mark G said:

Very probably.  The above is all very likely true.

Overall, though, was PM all that bad?  He had one outlier year where we lost the 103 games.  The other 3 years combined he was 6 games over .500.  Fast forward:  Rocco had one outlier year where we won 101 games.  The other 3 years combined he has been 10 games under .500.  Gardy had a run of 9 years where he was over .500 8 times, finished 1st 6 times, 2nd twice, and 3rd once.  He then had 4 extremely tough seasons where we lost in the 90's each year and he was fired, previous stretch be damned.  If we go a 3rd time in a row under .500 after only 2 successful years (if you can count 60 games as successful), I simply think the same standards should apply.  I think they gave Gardy time due to all the good years; Rocco has had 1 1/2.  Does that count the same as 9?  How far should Falvine be allowed to go if we continue to lose?  Ryan was a part of those 9 years (with Smith for a little as well), yet he got the hook after the 4 bad years as well.  I just want the same standards used across the board.  If we win more than we lose, you don't fix what isn't broke.  If we continue to lose more than we win, then something IS broke, and a fix might be in order.  I think this is the deciding season to determine that.  

You nailed exactly my thoughts as well.  Need to consistently apply performance standards.  This should be the make or break year for Falvine/Rocco - but I have an uneasy feeling this won't be the case.  And if so, then what are the performance standards for the organization?  Intangibles rather than wins/losses?  Given the costs to attend a game have increased significantly, expectations increase as well.

[DJL44]

Falvey's contract is up after 2024. I think he'll finish next year and then they'll make a decision.

[chpettit19]

For me it's not about wins/loses (although they are also very important), but more about seeing them make adjustments to failed strategies in season, and the pipeline produce. What got me really doubting them was their inability to move off Duffey and Pagan quickly (or at all in Pagan's case), or change the strategy of 1 inning relievers being marched out there for 4 or 5 innings a night. I'm not of the belief that "2 times through the order or 5 innings" is their overall plan with starters (they'd never done that in any other season, and didn't do it with Gray or Ryan until Gray couldn't stay healthy), but I do think short starts was a general game plan they had last year (to make up for lack of talented starters) that clearly wasn't working when backed up by so many short relief appearances. And they never adjusted (they started the year trying to piggy back with Winder, but after he got hurt it was all 1 inning guys).

An inability, or refusal, to adjust from strategies that clearly aren't working during the 2023 season would be enough for me to fire them (or, as others point out, 1 of them depending on who's area of control that is). Or if the pipeline looks to be fully backed up and not likely to produce top end talent (pitching especially). To me it looks like they've got the ability to produce a bunch of league average talent. Can they produce above average talent? If there's some signs of that I wouldn't want to fire the people who finally setup a real development program, but we're deep enough into their tenure (and far enough away from 2020) that there needs to be real signs of an ability to produce some playoff caliber pitchers. SWR, Varland, Balazovic, Ober, etc. are a big measuring stick for the future of Falvine to me.

[TwinsDr2021]

To me it is pretty simple, bare minimum is win a playoff game. The front office was hired 11/16 (or at least introduced that day) and was given the 1st overall pick, and a very solid core of young players to work with (Rosario, Garver, Sano, Polanco, Buxton, Kepler, Berrios), vets to trade,  and some pretty decent minor league players. Next year will be their 7th year and the team has been trending down since 2019.  I don't care about the Covid year or injuries all the teams have to deal with that. 

 

 

[Doctor Gast]

Back in the beginning of '20, the question was asked what would be a successful season? My answer was to win a post season game. This is still my answer, for Flavine to stay, this is still my bar. For this to happen they have to change their mindset. From not depending so heavily on short relief instead take advantage of our long relief, thus not ending up overstretching the rotation.

Also not trying to squeeze out as much playing time out as possible from our regular positional players w/ not enough rest. The focus shouldn't be to limp across the finish line but having a strong & rested roster ready for the post season.

If this happens then I'm willing to give them as long of rope as they need to continue this new mind set. If they don't change then again I'll cry out for a change for someone who can. Because their plan isn't doing it.

[Major League Ready]

On 12/30/2022 at 4:23 PM, Mike Sixel said:

None of the above.

I read the poll and thought the exact same thing.   How they progress and most specifically how much the young core develops is the basis of evaluation for me.  SWR and Varland really stepping up would be so huge going forward that would be much more important than extending Gray / Mahle or Maeda.  At this point I have no idea if I would want to extend them, especially Maeda and Gray given their age.  The much better scenario is Ryan / Ober / Varland / SWR and Paddack all pitch well.  Then instead of extending a good but not great pitcher, they finally land a big fish like Nola.  Having 4 or 5 cheap starters would make that more financially feasible than it was in the past.   

What if we win 92 games and Cleveland wins 93.  Is not winning the division a meaningful measure?  What if they are 5 games below 500 at the halfway point and play 15 games over the last half lead by the development of Miranda / Lewis / Kirilloff / Larnach / Wallner / Julien and Martin as well as the pitchers mentioned above.  

[Mike Sixel]

What if ownership made it clear they weren't to spend money this off-season, and that's the reason they are where they are?