Fill in the blank: The 2023 Twins must ______ or Falvine need to be terminated

[cHawk]

Throughout the span of four years, the Twins won 300 of their 546 games. Over the course of 162 games, the Twins would win ~89 games at that pace. If you were to ask a Twins fan the following question: "Do you think your team should consider cleaning house?" on the date September 28th, 2020, they would likely chuckle and deny such a thought. But then fast forward to December 30th, 2022, and the answer would likely be different. Over the past two calendar years the Twins have lost 174 of their 324 games, while failing to qualify for the postseason during that stretch. As a result, many in the North Star state have clamored for the dynamic duo to be axed from their throne. Some have run out of patience for the Scroogelike executives. Others have demonstrated great stoicism with these two but still have finite patience.

If the Twins are to miss the postseason for a third consecutive season, it is highly likely that a lionsshare of Twins fans throughout the nation will be clamoring for Falvine to be given the pink slip. I ask all of you to answer the following question: "What must your favorite baseball team accomplish in 2023 in order to prolong Falvine's job security?"

While I am not calling for Falvine's jobs yet, the minimum I expect is that their club win the American League Central Division. If by November 1st, 2023 this has not occurred, I will be among those clamoring for the sacking of Falvine.

I believe this is a reasonable expectation, given the lack of competition within the division. While the Kansas City Royals and Detroit Tigers possess intriguing young talent, neither are likely to dominate in 2023. While the Chicago White Sox own a large sum of talent, they will forever be held back by their antediluvian manager. Although the Cleveland Guardians remain a contender for the division, they are hardly a juggernaut. While Falvey and Levine will be unable to construct a juggernaut over the next 90 days, I believe they are capable of constructing a team that is capable of winning 90 games and the American League Central Division.

[Mike Sixel]

None of the above.

[ashbury]

I don't have a specific benchmark. I just want to see signs that the trajectory of the past two years is reversed, not merely stabilized, and throughout the system.  

[nicksaviking]

I still want to see Levine replaced first. If Falvey is supposed to be the system builder and he has dozens of collaborators who oversee specific areas of this world he's creating, Lavine must be the one responsible for roster construction and player acquisition.

[ashbury]

15 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

I still want to see Levine replaced first. If Falvey is supposed to be the system builder and he has dozens of collaborators who oversee specific areas of this world he's creating, Lavine must be the one responsible for roster construction and player acquisition.

Alternatively if you're not impressed with the promises of a minor league pipeline versus the results, fire Falvey and elevate Levine for continuity. 

Firing both would be additional years of chaos waiting for a new era of winning, so would be done only if you believe the organization is rotten through and through.

[Heiny]

I would like to see the checkbook opened up a little and see what they could do with it.  Also, I think the first move should be to replace Rocco.  I think he is a very nice man, but I dislike his game management and think he would be better off with another teams' fans that would embrace his almighty analytics.  Time to promote Doug Mientkiewicz.

[tony&rodney]

The crew (Falvey, Levine, Baldelli) are a team. My sole judgment would center on the type of baseball presented for the viewers this coming season. The minimum expectation is strong fundamentals, hustle, and playing the game out as it presents itself within the game as opposed to a scripted log. The same lame product as last year is not acceptable. No more station to station.

[rwilfong86]

Gotta make the playoffs or they need to clean house

[nicksaviking]

1 hour ago, ashbury said:

Alternatively if you're not impressed with the promises of a minor league pipeline versus the results, fire Falvey and elevate Levine for continuity. 

Firing both would be additional years of chaos waiting for a new era of winning, so would be done only if you believe the organization is rotten through and through.

Fair take, though I’m not nearly as down on the minor league system as others. I like what I’m seeing from the young guys way more than I am from the vets.

But that’s not even saying Lavine is the issue. If as I presumed, he IS in charge of roster building, it’s quite possible Joe Ryan and Jhoan Duran were his doing after all.

Mostly, I’d like to switch it up to see what, if anything changes. Just to see if the problem is identifiable that way. This current “collaborative” structure isn’t producing enough wins. But is it the structure, or the parts it’s made of?. I don’t want “old school” baseball back as that’s certain to lose, but is the Terry Ryan “Czar” approach actually better, just minus the Terry Ryan?

[Vanimal46]

53 minutes ago, Heiny said:

Time to promote Doug Mientkiewicz.

Promote him from where? His couch? I’m sure he’d be thrilled to coach baseball for the first time since 2019. 

[Nashvilletwin]

Here are a few other choices:

A. Mahle doesn’t pitch 125 innings.

B. Gallo doesn’t hit over 0.225 or 35 HRs.

C. Except for injury, each of Wallner, Julien, Martin, Lee and Lewis plays less than 250 innings or has fewer than 125 plate appearances.

D. At least two of Ober, Winder, Varland, SWR and Balazovic don’t become pencilled in ‘24 starters.

E. They fail to extend the winner of the Maeda/Gray/Maeda sweepstakes.

F. The Twins young core do not play enough to not only be assessed, but also be ready for ‘24.

G. Rocco is not fired if the Twins inability to play strong fundamental baseball and his inability to manage more wins than losses continue.

H. They trade more of our rapidly depleting young talent for washed up one or two year dart throws thinking we can compete this year.

In my book they do not get fired this year based on wins or losses alone. Let’s be honest and I hope I’m wrong, but there should be no realistic expectation that this team should compete for a Pennant or even win a playoff game this season.  Instead, Falvey and Levine need to be judged on their ability to get this franchise ready to compete with the new young talent coming up - keeping the talent, letting players play and ensuring they are developing/playing smart baseball. 

[Richie the Rally Goat]

1 hour ago, Heiny said:

I would like to see the checkbook opened up a little and see what they could do with it.  Also, I think the first move should be to replace Rocco.  I think he is a very nice man, but I dislike his game management and think he would be better off with another teams' fans that would embrace his almighty analytics.  Time to promote Doug Mientkiewicz.

Doug, been out of baseball since 2019 and as a manager physically fought on the field with players. Even the Tigers fired him.

 

Fire Baldelli, or not. Personally I think whoever replaces Baldelli will be his clone until Falvine are gone. 
 

i never, ever want to see Dougie Baseball in a Twins Uni again

[Mike Sixel]

8 minutes ago, Nashvilletwin said:

Here are a few other choices:

A. Mahle doesn’t pitch 125 innings.

B. Gallo doesn’t hit over 0.225 or 35 HRs.

C. Except for injury, each of Wallner, Julien, Martin, Lee and Lewis plays less than 250 innings or has fewer than 125 plate appearances.

D. At least two of Ober, Winder, Varland, SWR and Balazovic don’t become pencilled in ‘24 starters.

E. They fail to extend the winner of the Maeda/Gray/Maeda sweepstakes.

F. The Twins young core do not play enough to not only be assessed, but also be ready for ‘24.

G. Rocco is not fired if the Twins inability to play strong fundamental baseball and his inability to manage more wins than losses continue.

H. They trade more of our rapidly depleting young talent for washed up one or two year dart throws thinking we can compete this year.

In my book they do not get fired this year based on wins or losses alone. Let’s be honest and I hope I’m wrong, but there should be no realistic expectation that this team should compete for a Pennant or even win a playoff game this season.  Instead, Falvey and Levine need to be judged on their ability to get this franchise ready to compete with the new young talent coming up - keeping the talent, letting players play and ensuring they are developing/playing smart baseball. 

Aren't C and F in conflict?

[Nashvilletwin]

Just now, Mike Sixel said:

Aren't C and F in conflict?

No, the point is those players need to play enough and the entire crew of position players and starters and a few relievers get enough innings/ABs to be properly evaluated for being on the big club in ‘24. 
 

At least that’s the point I was trying to make………

[Carnivalfoodie]

I guess it depends on what they do the next two months.  So far this offseason SUCKS.   

[USAFChief]

__offer USAFChief use of a suite wth catering for ten (10) 2023 series of USAFChief's choice___

[Squirrel]

2 hours ago, Heiny said:

Time to promote Doug Mientkiewicz.

No way. This is not the way forward, no matter what happens with the FO. I don’t think he’s even in baseball anymore, having been let go by the Tigers 

[Mark G]

This extremely humble observer wonders why we are talking about the last 4 years; they have been here for six, the first two being the last 2 years of Molitor as manager.  Their mindset from the beginning appeared to be win or you're out, and the first year he didn't win (under them), he was out, despite a pretty strong argument that they were the reason he didn't win that second year, as they were selling the roster out from under him.   I think they should be given the same length of rope they afforded PM; that is why I voted for not finishing over .500 for a 3rd straight year being enough to warrant the hook. 

Time to stop riding the coattails of one 307 home run season and look at the 6 years (and now part of a 7th) as a whole.  They insist on riding a patched together pitching staff every year, while being managed by someone who doesn't appear (at least to this extremely humble observer) to be altogether fantastic at managing said pitching staff.   That, and the number of injuries this organization continues to have every year, from the majors to Class A, makes me wonder about the ability to judge not only talent, but durability.  That extends to trading for players who end up on the IL; Cody did an article on it some months back.  

Looking back at the last 2 seasons of MLB, there was more than one team that won 100 or more games and didn't win their division, so the division itself is not always in your control.  Playoff spots can be won with 85 games in down seasons, and not won with 94 wins in others so that is not a sole criteria for me either.  Losing more than you win on a consistent basis would be the benchmark for me as to changing leadership, and we are coming to a crossroads pretty quick.  

[Heiny]

Hey Fellas:  The  Doug Mientkiewicz thing was my lame attempt at humor.  I thought the extra large font size would give that away.  Sorry for the stir.  LOL.

 

[Squirrel]

5 minutes ago, Heiny said:

Hey Fellas:  The  Doug Mientkiewicz thing was my lame attempt at humor.  I thought the extra large font size would give that away.  Sorry for the stir.  LOL.

 

So difficult to tell in this environment ?

Oh, and we’re not all fellas. Also difficult to tell in this environment ?

[Richie the Rally Goat]

9 minutes ago, Heiny said:

Hey Fellas:  The  Doug Mientkiewicz thing was my lame attempt at humor.  I thought the extra large font size would give that away.  Sorry for the stir.  LOL.

 

I’ve been asking Brock for a sarc font for years 

[CRF]

At least win the friggin central division. It was there for the taking last season, and just about all of their moves backfired. That could be colossal bad luck, or complete ineptness...depending on how you look at it. The injuries were a killer, and Rocco sure didn't help either. We should know within the first 40-50 games, if we have anything this season, or not. There's still time for some trades to change the outlook too. The fans will stay away in droves, if things don't turn around somewhat. I'm not particularly a Falvey/Levine guy, and I don't care for Rocco at all, but who are you gonna replace them with? I'm not smart enough to know, but I honestly wouldn't mind seeing them gone, and take Baldelli with them...PLEASE!

[LanceJS]

5 hours ago, Mark G said:

Their mindset from the beginning appeared to be win or you're out, and the first year he didn't win (under them), he was out, despite a pretty strong argument that they were the reason he didn't win that second year, as they were selling the roster out from under him.   

I always thought Molitor was out because he was too “old school” so they replaced him with Baldelli who embraced analytics much more than Molitor. IMO, he would have been gone a year earlier had he not won Manager of the Year in 2017.

[Craig Arko]

Maybe each of us should evaluate this question against our own accomplishments. 

[CRF]

39 minutes ago, Craig Arko said:

Maybe each of us should evaluate this question against our own accomplishments. 

I haven't accomplished anything...so I'd have been out the door many years ago!

[ashbury]

56 minutes ago, Craig Arko said:

Maybe each of us should evaluate this question against our own accomplishments. 

It's New Years so that's a timely sentiment.  Still, I evaluate a FO against their 29 peers.

[Dave The Dastardly]

33 minutes ago, CRF said:

I haven't accomplished anything...so I'd have been out the door many years ago!

My goal in life has been to avoid fame and fortune. I have succeeded beyond my wildest dreams. Not sure if that means I should be fired or offered a contract extension.

[Bigfork Twins Guy]

18 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

None of the above.

Agreed.  Ownership loves this FO and they will be given another year regardless of what transpires in 2023.

[Mark G]

6 hours ago, LanceJS said:

I always thought Molitor was out because he was too “old school” so they replaced him with Baldelli who embraced analytics much more than Molitor. IMO, he would have been gone a year earlier had he not won Manager of the Year in 2017.

Very probably.  The above is all very likely true.

Overall, though, was PM all that bad?  He had one outlier year where we lost the 103 games.  The other 3 years combined he was 6 games over .500.  Fast forward:  Rocco had one outlier year where we won 101 games.  The other 3 years combined he has been 10 games under .500.  Gardy had a run of 9 years where he was over .500 8 times, finished 1st 6 times, 2nd twice, and 3rd once.  He then had 4 extremely tough seasons where we lost in the 90's each year and he was fired, previous stretch be damned.  If we go a 3rd time in a row under .500 after only 2 successful years (if you can count 60 games as successful), I simply think the same standards should apply.  I think they gave Gardy time due to all the good years; Rocco has had 1 1/2.  Does that count the same as 9?  How far should Falvine be allowed to go if we continue to lose?  Ryan was a part of those 9 years (with Smith for a little as well), yet he got the hook after the 4 bad years as well.  I just want the same standards used across the board.  If we win more than we lose, you don't fix what isn't broke.  If we continue to lose more than we win, then something IS broke, and a fix might be in order.  I think this is the deciding season to determine that.  

[jctwins]

Hey now let's see how this new trainer works out before we make any big moves!!