Sell The Team

[Azviking101]

1 hour ago, Squirrel said:

They re-signed him because Bux came to them willing to do what it took to sign a deal because he wanted to remain a Twin

Yeah that played a role as well. Doesn’t happen very often. Twins don’t seem to recognize that. Trying to get free agents to take hometown discounts 

if buxton was a FA this year he would have gotten 150+. Fans don’t seem to recognize that. 

[howeda7]

14 hours ago, Squirrel said:

 

Chances are if the team is sold the Twins move and would cease to be the Twins. Would that be okay?

 

This is simply not true. The Twins have a lease at Target Field through 2039. They're not moving anywhere. 

I would love if the Pohlads would sell. There would be plenty of buyers. But in the absence of that, a front office that is aggressive within their budget instead of sitting on their thumbs waiting for the prices in the bargain bin to drop is a necessity. 

[SanoMustGo]

On 12/26/2022 at 7:46 PM, sun said:

Why would anyone be angry with the owners?

They went out of their way to sign Buxton and aren't responsible for his injuries.

There have been plenty of other injuries too that the owners didn't cause.

Twins fans know that there's too many to list.

If someone wants to be irate with the Twins then walk away and take a break.

Baseball isn't for the faint of heart and the team isn't a charity either.

The team profits only amount to a small percentage of the overall gross which they probably squirrel away for bad economic times like during covid.

They went ahead and signed Correa and then made him a fair long term offer considering all of the circumstances.

We'll see what happens when Lewis, Kirilloff and others return from their injuries.

And what kinds of trades and transactions can be made going forward.

If someone wants to complain that only makes them look like they have sour grapes.

Twins fans should feel lucky that the team hasn't relocated and is a source of local pride & entertainment.

 

 

 

 

 

This is an average organization at best.  This is not a great game any more.  I won't pay to watch a game either in a stadium, or on TV anymore.  Between the players and the owners, they can have each other.  There is no pride in watching greed for a damn sport that means very little when all is said and done.

[Squirrel]

17 minutes ago, Azviking101 said:

Yeah that played a role as well. Doesn’t happen very often. Twins don’t seem to recognize that. Trying to get free agents to take hometown discounts 

if buxton was a FA this year he would have gotten 150+. Fans don’t seem to recognize that. 

I don’t disagree. I have been very vocal in these forums about their FA strategy and needing to be competitive. Just clarifying that the Buxton deal happened because, imo, Buck made it happen

[SanoMustGo]

2 minutes ago, Squirrel said:

I don’t disagree. I have been very vocal in these forums about their FA strategy and needing to be competitive. Just clarifying that the Buxton deal happened because, imo, Buck made it happen

just like Correa and Boras did last season.

[Squirrel]

8 minutes ago, howeda7 said:

This is simply not true. The Twins have a lease at Target Field through 2039. They're not moving anywhere. 

I would love if the Pohlads would sell. There would be plenty of buyers. But in the absence of that, a front office that is aggressive within their budget instead of sitting on their thumbs waiting for the prices in the bargain bin to drop is a necessity. 

A lease means nothing. And there is no guarantee that if sold, they would stay local. It could, and that would be fine with me, but it is not a guarantee. So they sell and the new owners move the team, how would you feel?

[howeda7]

11 minutes ago, Squirrel said:

A lease means nothing. And there is no guarantee that if sold, they would stay local. It could, and that would be fine with me, but it is not a guarantee. So they sell and the new owners move the team, how would you feel?

Nothing in life is a guarantee but it is very, very unlikely. There are massive penalties for breaking the lease and it would end up in court. To say the lease means nothing is simply foolish.

Plus if another city wants a team, MLB would not move the Twins while Oakland and Tampa rot in terrible facilities and teams like the Marlins and Pirates exist. There is almost no chance of the Twins moving in the next 10 years, regardless of who owns them. To say you want the Pohlads to keep them because they're the only ones who won't move the team away is just dumb. This is a mindset from 1995-2005 that no longer applies. It's like saying you don't want the Wilfs to sell the Vikings because the new owners would move them. That's not happening either. The only Minnesota team that has more than 1% chance of moving anytime soon is the Timberwolves. 

[Squirrel]

1 minute ago, howeda7 said:

Nothing in life is a guarantee but it is very, very unlikely. There are massive penalties for breaking the lease and it would end up in court. To say it means nothing is simply foolish. Plus if another city wants a team, MLB would not move the Twins while Oakland and Tampa rot in terrible facilities. There is almost no chance of the Twins moving in the next 10 years, regardless of who owns them. To say you want the Pohlads to keep them because they're the only ones who won't move the team away is just dumb. 

I didn’t say I want the Pohlads to keep the team, did I? I just think it’s short-sighted to think that them selling the team will solve what we dislike. Was just trying to give a ‘be careful what you wish for’ scenario. And I have been very vocal in these forums, as I said above, in them not spending on FA, but I don’t think selling the team will answer then problem.

[Einheri]

Yeah, there's some happy ground between where the Twins are and where a better Twins team could be--and without spending all that much more money, but obviously some more, maybe 10%?  And spend it wisely.

[howeda7]

3 minutes ago, Squirrel said:

I didn’t say I want the Pohlads to keep the team, did I? I just think it’s short-sighted to think that them selling the team will solve what we dislike. Was just trying to give a ‘be careful what you wish for’ scenario. And I have been very vocal in these forums, as I said above, in them not spending on FA, but I don’t think selling the team will answer then problem.

Selling the team might not solve everything. It depends who the new owner is. But being fearful of them moving is zero reason to be against it because it's not going to happen. 

Most recent pro sports owners buy in for ego/prestige and want to win. Hopefully that would apply to whoever buys the Twins. The Pohlads do not seem to be motivated or particularly engaged owners. New owners would very likely be an upgrade. 

[Squirrel]

32 minutes ago, howeda7 said:

Selling the team might not solve everything. It depends who the new owner is. But being fearful of them moving is zero reason to be against it because it's not going to happen. 

Most recent pro sports owners buy in for ego/prestige and want to win. Hopefully that would apply to whoever buys the Twins. The Pohlads do not seem to be motivated or particularly engaged owners. New owners would very likely be an upgrade. 

Well, I don’t agree there would be zero chance the team wouldn’t be moved. Look, I’m not a fan of ownership and how we play in FA, but that isn’t just about ownership. There is a lot wrong with MLB, and selling the team isn’t go to solve the issues. It’s a short-sighted solution, imo, and one many unhappy fans turn to.

[Fat Calvin]

Amen Bro.  I couldn't agree more!!

[wsnydes]

14 hours ago, dxpavelka said:

He don't even know who Calvin is..

We're referring to the kid in @Vanimal46's emoji, right? ?

[Nine of twelve]

9 hours ago, howeda7 said:

I would love if the Pohlads would sell. There would be plenty of buyers. 

There would be plenty of buyers only if the team is a money-making business. And if that's the case the Pohlads would sell the team only if they felt the offer was enough to make up for the income they would no longer have from the team. And that means the new owners would have to generate enough income to make up for the money spent to acquire the team. It seems likely to me that new ownership would have to be just as attentive to the bottom line as current ownership is, maybe even more so. And keep in mind that the Pohlad family did not wind up with a multi-billion dollar net worth by accident. It would take a pretty sizable offer to make them even consider selling. So I think the pool of potential buyers would be pretty small.

[RJA]

Boy, lot's of opinions and some vitriol on this post.  First, there is no way the Twins would move if a new owner purchased them.  It is simply not going to happen.  Look at the Oakland situation, and the Tampa Bay situation.  In both of those cases the teams have had a lot less support than the Twins and they have not moved anywhere.  The Oakland saga has been ongoing for a quarter century.  IF any team moves, it will be that one.  MLB will not risk the wrath of many by moving a team with a great stadium in a decent market even if a new owner takes over.  Second, if you do get new owners, there is no guarantee they will be looking to change payroll or the trajectory of the team.  So, there is a risk in that situation as well.  Remember, we could get new ownership that is worse than what we have.  Is it worth the risk, people probably differ on that.  Third, Pohlads have been lukewarm in the support of the franchise.  Remember, they offered to fold the franchise in contraction.  They could for sure have a bigger payroll as they purchased the Twins for 44 million and the franchise is now worth at least 1.4 billion.  They certainly have seen this capital asset appreciate to the tune of somewhere around 8-9% a year in addition to whatever yearly income they have realized.  But, I can't make their spending decisions for them, so while I will criticize them, I refuse to get too upset about things over which I can exercise no control.  Frankly, one could make the case that HOW they are choosing to spend their money is much more of an issue than how much they spend.  Some of this FO's decisions are, quite frankly, mysterious.

[cHawk]

As frustrated as I and many others are by the current state of this team, I'm not going to stop rooting for them because of it. The truth is, we can't realistically do anything ourselves to convince the Pohlads to sell the team. Us fans have two options at this point, and you are welcome to choose whichever one pleases you.

1.  Continue to stick with the team and hope the Pohlads eventually sell
2.  Find another team to root for

[Original_JB]

I think the upcoming contract talks with Bally's/Sinclair for the broadcast rights is going to have some effect on what happens going forward. Joe Pohlad is no dummy, and I think he sees that the financial numbers are getting way out of control, especially with each team having portions of its own, unshared broadcast $$$. I believe the Dodgers just signed a 25 year $8.35B deal of which they'll get about $250M a year and "sharing" $120M/yr with the rest of league. Without the finances changing, it's going to be harder to "keep up" with the bigger spending teams in the coming years. If the Twins aren't able to secure a large enough deal in their new TV contract, I can see the Pohlads start looking for buyers. Get out while the gettins' good. Sure, the team will still be 'profitable' but it will be harder to keep it that way as time goes on. Without "winning", it's going to be hard to justify higher ticket prices, so do they just shift to the Pirates/Red/Marlins/Rays/A's method and keep the payroll down and play "Washington Generals" going into the future? To me, I'd cash out before owning a non-competitive team that was "making money" but not very good and the fans have gone apathetic.     *Edited to add: I guess I don't know how much they care, but again if it was me, I wouldn't want the legacy of the team going down the crapper on my watch regardless of the reasons for it, and would sell the team before letting it come to that.

[NotAboutWinning]

The upcoming TV contract is likely to be much less lucrative. Diamond, the company that runs Bally, is drowning in debt and considering bankruptcy.

[sun]

I personally like the Twins front office, the moves that they try to make and how they think. I also like the Pohlads and think that they care about the team. We have some good players, Buck, Arraez & Capt. Polanco. There was the record setting Bomba season. We were in 1st place most of last year until the injury bugs hit hard. Sure there's disappointments but that's the nature of baseball. IIRC the Twins profits are less than or about 2% of the team's gross. I seriously doubt that the Pohlads take any money out of the organization, it's mostly self sustaining. My hunch is that the Twins may even need to borrow money from time to time. 

I really think that the biggest problem with the Twins is Minnesota itself. It's fairly cold and too isolated to attract major superstars who prefer to play closer to their home cities or established bases of their wive's family. And they consider their own family and kids. They like the coasts and certain climates, some are southerners while others are easterners or California born & bred. The Twins can't become the Yankees without causing future organizational difficulties. Every team has a large empire of expenses to develop and recruit talent including in foreign countries

I doubt that all of the fans understand that billionaires don't want to mix funds from one of their investments to another as if it were a loan that would never be paid back. They operate in a fiscally responsible manner and aren't like the US gov't that can print money. Billionaires have responsibilities to use their money for the betterment of society and not just to toss it away to try to win world championships. They trust the front office to do the best that they can. I'm sorry but if some fans don't like it then they simply need to lump it. The billionaires like Mike Bloomberg who is willing to throw his money away because he has alternative agendas besides baseball don't want to buy MLB teams. Fans talk like being a billionaire is like living a pipe dream which just isn't the case. It's an establishment and they rarely chase pipe dreams unless there's a profit motive. That's what the establishment does with their money. They roll the dice in a responsible manner in an effort to win, and if they win they win, and if they don't they don't. How many lottery tickets do folks go out and buy when the mega-millions lottery reaches astronomical amounts? Maybe I'll buy one ticket a year. And if I were a billionaire that wouldn't motivate me to buy more lottery tickets. You know that they're all going to lose. Fans just want a sugar daddy team owner to splurge and then will complain afterward about the high ticket, food & beer prices. Who can even afford a ticket to the world series anyway? Yada, yada yada. 

 

[Original_JB]

11 minutes ago, NotAboutWinning said:

The upcoming TV contract is likely to be much less lucrative. Diamond, the company that runs Bally, is drowning in debt and considering bankruptcy.

Yup. I'm well aware of that. Makes me wonder if (like I've heard they might) the MLB, NHL, and NBA leaderships are actually thinking about/pursuing a buyout of Diamond; at the same time, I've also heard that the leagues have resolved themselves as to needing a 'viable'  broadcaster and while not liking Diamond, they have a (semi-) working product in place.

[Mike Sixel]

16 minutes ago, NotAboutWinning said:

The upcoming TV contract is likely to be much less lucrative. Diamond, the company that runs Bally, is drowning in debt and considering bankruptcy.

People keep saying this, and every contract is higher

[bloomwcjkl]

The Twins "World Weries" is competing for the division title.

A playoff win would be a bonus. I just like having it on the radio and TV. It means spring/summer and fall.

Much the same as the Vikings winning the division is their "Super Bowl".

The farther away from the 2 World Series wins we are, the more amazing/improbable they were. It has been 30 years, but we are still living off those wins.

I am hoping for a better than expected season with a lower than expected salary pool. Miracles do happen. If not, it is still better than not having baseball on.

[Original_JB]

5 minutes ago, sun said:

I personally like the Twins front office, the moves that they try to make and how they think. I also like the Pohlads and think that they care about the team. We have some good players, Buck, Arraez & Capt. Polanco. We were in 1st place most of the year until the injury bugs hit hard. Sure there's disappointments but that's the nature of baseball. IIRC the Twins profits are less than or about 2% of the team's gross. I seriously doubt that the Pohlads take any money out of the organization, it's most self sustaining. My hunch is that the Twins may even need to borrow money from time to time. 

I really think that the biggest problem with Twins is Minnesota itself. It's fairly cold and isolated to attract major supertstars who prefer to play closer to their home cities or established bases of their wives. And they consider their families and kids. The like the coasts and certain climates, some are southerners while others are northerner or California born & bred. The Twins can't become the Yankees without causing future organizational difficulties. Every team has a large empire of expenses to develop and recruit talent including in foreign countries

I doubt that all of the fans understand that don't want to mix funds from one of their investments to another as if it were a loan that would never be paid back. They operate in a fiscally responsible and aren't like US gov't that can print money. Billionaires have responsibilities to use their money for the betterment of society and not just to toss it away to try to win world championships. They trust the front office to do the best that they can. I'm sorry but if some fans don't like it then they simply need to lump it. The billionaires like Mike Bloomberg who is willing to throw his money away because he has alternative agendas besides baseball don't want to buy MLB teams. Fans talk like being a billionaire is like living a pipe dream which just isn't the case. It's an establishment and they rarely chase pipe dreams unless there's a profit motive. That's what the establishment does with their money. They roll the dice in a responsible manner in an effort to win, and if they win they win, and if they don't they don't. How many lottery tickets do folks go out and buy when the mega-millions lottery reaches astronomical amounts? Maybe I'll buy one ticket a year. And if I were a billionaire that wouldn't motivate me to buy more lottery tickets. You know that they're all going to lose. Fans just want a sugar daddy to splurge and then complain about the high ticket prices. Yada, yada yada. 

I'm not just talking about the Twins, I'm talking about the viability of the league as a whole if they don't get their financial workings sorted out.  Having teams where 1 player (not yet, but close) makes more than another team's entire roster is not going to make it financially over the long haul. If they don't split into a Premier League styled upper/lower bracket or start sharing ALL tv revenue or something, IMO there's less than 20 years left of the game/league as we know it.

[Mike Sixel]

15 minutes ago, Original_JB said:

I'm not just talking about the Twins, I'm talking about the viability of the league as a whole if they don't get their financial workings sorted out.  Having teams where 1 player (not yet, but close) makes more than another team's entire roster is not going to make it financially over the long haul. If they don't split into a Premier League styled upper/lower bracket or start sharing ALL tv revenue or something, IMO there's less than 20 years left of the game/league as we know it.

I'll take that bet, but I'm 58, so I might not be here in twenty years. 

[Original_JB]

9 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

I'll take that bet, but I'm 58, so I might not be here in twenty years. 

Just turned 58 myself last month. And believe me, it's not what I want to see happen, but the "price" per WAR, as it were, seems like we're just turning the corner to the upward curve in a classic "hockey stick" graph.

[Rosterman]

Well, can always just cross the river and watch the Saints, who amazingly didn't run away with the division because rather than a somewhat equal Indy Ball team, they became the minor league affiliate of the Twins and fielded Twins draft picks and bonus money recipients (besides the normal crowd of AAAA minor league free agents) against those of other higher-paying major league teams.

But the level of play may, overall, be a bit more even, except for the constant revolving door of callups.

 

And more amazing, the Saints didn't sell out every friggin' game, especially with all those "futrue Twins" playing the field, and the food and seats are much cheaper, and overall better to watch play, as well as the between-inning antics.

[sun]

1 hour ago, Original_JB said:

I'm not just talking about the Twins, I'm talking about the viability of the league as a whole if they don't get their financial workings sorted out.  Having teams where 1 player (not yet, but close) makes more than another team's entire roster is not going to make it financially over the long haul. If they don't split into a Premier League styled upper/lower bracket or start sharing ALL tv revenue or something, IMO there's less than 20 years left of the game/league as we know it.

I disagree. Sports betting is suppose to create a new revenue stream which can be shared with players to raise their earnings. More earnings should attract more athletes to engage in baseball.  MLB has an anti-trust exemption which means that as long as the owners and players union can work out their disagreements then MLB will survive. There's more competition for sports viewership but the season is long and attractive enough to bettors and sports enthusiasts that MLB should be safe. IMO the sport has a safer future than football and is more international. MLB will undergo expansion soon enough. MLB has more economic upside for communities than other sports. All of the Latinos entering the country can't be all bad for the future of baseball and its athlete pool. The billionaire owners will figure out how to protect their investments and the game itself. They've already expanded the playoffs. And IIRC for the first time all MLB teams will have an equal schedule of games outside of their own Division by playing against each & every other MLB team. That's a dream come true. 

[tony&rodney]

On 12/27/2022 at 4:27 PM, dxpavelka said:

As a soon to be 60 year old Twins fan who lived thru the Calvin era I say, pony up, buy the team.  Otherwise stay in your lane.

I'm not going to complain about any owner including Calvin Griffith. I will remind everyone that just having extras billions and wanting to buy a team does not mean you can buy an MLB franchise. It is a club and very difficult to get in. There were three other firm offers that were rejected in favor of the Pohlad family. Ask Mark Cuban if money is enough to get into the club. He was rejected by the MLB owners. Cohen was allowed to buy the Mets because of favors owed. MLB has an anti-trust exemption. 

So, you cannot just buy a team. 

[dxpavelka]

On 12/27/2022 at 4:29 PM, Nine of twelve said:

In 2022 the AL Central had a W-L record of 382-428. The NL Central had a W-L record of 377-433.

C'mon man.  Don't go trumping ******** with facts.

[adorduan]

7 hours ago, cHawk said:

As frustrated as I and many others are by the current state of this team, I'm not going to stop rooting for them because of it. The truth is, we can't realistically do anything ourselves to convince the Pohlads to sell the team. Us fans have two options at this point, and you are welcome to choose whichever one pleases you.

1.  Continue to stick with the team and hope the Pohlads eventually sell
2.  Find another team to root for

Or 3. Find something else to do this summer. I bought a dragster, I'm going racing before I'm too old to do it.?