Looking Ahead to Joe Mauer's First Hall Of Fame Ballot

[denarded]

This may be a dumb analogy/story. I was at a Tigers game @2015 (I may be wrong on year, but not spending time to figure out) Memorial Day weekend and got to Detroit with only shirts and t shirts. temp at game time was in low 40s. Freezing and Twins losing badly we only stayed because Annibel Sanchez had a no-hitter going. Top of 9 one out Mauer comes up. I'm wearing my 'Mauer to the people' shirt (thanks to whomever made that) I"m cheering for a no-hitter because I'll never see one in person probably again. Sanchez throws a strike and I can't believe he's pitching to Mauer. I announce this to the Tiger fans around me. "Don't do this" 2 pitches later Mauer does prototypical in/out swing and deposits ball in shallow left field for a single. Long story short, Mauer was a bad, bad man. Sorry for meandering story, but that moment stuck with me.

[Vanimal46]

I concur with the vast majority of comments. He won’t be a first ballot HOF, but he will get in eventually. His peak performance at catcher looks more impressive as time goes on. If he doesn’t get in, neither will Posey, Salvy Perez, or Yadi Molina. 

[old nurse]

4 hours ago, denarded said:

This may be a dumb analogy/story. I was at a Tigers game @2015 (I may be wrong on year, but not spending time to figure out) Memorial Day weekend and got to Detroit with only shirts and t shirts. temp at game time was in low 40s. Freezing and Twins losing badly we only stayed because Annibel Sanchez had a no-hitter going. Top of 9 one out Mauer comes up. I'm wearing my 'Mauer to the people' shirt (thanks to whomever made that) I"m cheering for a no-hitter because I'll never see one in person probably again. Sanchez throws a strike and I can't believe he's pitching to Mauer. I announce this to the Tiger fans around me. "Don't do this" 2 pitches later Mauer does prototypical in/out swing and deposits ball in shallow left field for a single. Long story short, Mauer was a bad, bad man. Sorry for meandering story, but that moment stuck with me.

2013

[BuxtonBonanza]

On 12/25/2022 at 5:55 AM, theBOMisthebomb said:

Let's talk baseball on Christmas morning?!? Yes, I love it. I don't believe Mauer will be first ballot Hall of Fame. I do believe he has a better than not chance of getting in within the first five years. Then, I plan to make my first trip to Cooperstown to celebrate watching a guy from playing in high school to the HOF. 

Agreed, the HoF voters seem to be really strict when it comes to first ballot inductees although they are more than happy to vote for them starting year 2. So I think he is more than good enough to get elected within the first 5 years.  Crossing fingers! 

[Nine of twelve]

On 12/25/2022 at 12:29 PM, HerbieFan said:

For 10 years he was the best catcher in all of baseball 

And for at least one year (2009) he was the best baseball player in the world.

[Nine of twelve]

On 12/25/2022 at 2:55 PM, Teflon said:

But has another catcher ever done this?
Joe Mauer - Another Day at the Office

 

Or this:

 

[Nine of twelve]

On 12/25/2022 at 6:08 PM, Heiny said:

I don't hold much store in the HOF anymore, due to some of the players who are in that I don't believe should be, and also some who never even got a chance past the first year.  Kaat and Oliva having to wait this long was a travesty IMHO. But in the words of another former Twins catcher "However",  I know it is a huge deal to the players and if anybody deserves to get in, Mauer is among them.  A shoo in.

 

The biggest travesty I can think of was Bert Blyleven. When he retired he was third all time in strikeouts. Repeating for emphasis: BLEEPING THIRD!!! There was never anyone more deserving of a first-ballot induction who did not receive that honor.

[tony&rodney]

Those who suggest that a number of writers will not vote for Joe Mauer to get in on his first ballot because they do not believe anyone should ever be inducted on their first attempt may be correct. I would just say that those writers are petty fools drunk on the vote they hold over any retired player eligible for the Hall of Fame.

Joe Mauer should absolutely be a 1st ballot inductee. 

In 2023, many teams are happy to have a good defensive catcher even if that catcher hits .200. Mauer was as good as it gets with a glove and won three (3) batting titles. He was a unicorn among catchers. Mauer is also a consensus top ten all time catcher in MLB history. 

It should be an easy vote.

[Republican22]

I feel that as a catcher, Joe Mauer will someday make the Baseball Hall of Fame.  But I feel it will be a couple of years on the ballot before he makes it. If he had played his whole career as a catcher, he would have vern a sure first Valletta Hall of Famer 

[Trov]

Joe 100% should get in the hall for sure.  If the medical issues would have knocked him out of baseball no one would have a question, as he is the best overall hitting catcher in terms of OBP and average to ever play.  His career behind the plate was cut short thanks to concussions, and then his overall numbers took a bit of hit when he moved off of catcher.  If you look at just his numbers at catcher he is a HOF for sure.  Had he wanted to play a few more years to rack of some more counting numbers he could have, but chose not too. I was never a huge Joe fan, for various reasons, but he is a HOF no doubt.  However, I believe Satana was a HOF as well, and he fell of first ballot, mainly because voters right now are looking at total counting numbers and not how they compared to their counter parts when healthy.  However, when injuries cuts a guy career short in the past when putting up HOF numbers until the injury, those players have got in.  Puckett and Koufax are the main two that come to my mind. 

Puckett and Joe have very similar numbers, but Joe played 3 more seasons, but only like 60 more career games over those 3 years, so Joe spent much more time on IL than Puckett did.  Puckett got in because of health cutting his career short, projecting that he would have got 3 to 5 more seasons and would have cracked 3,000 hits.  Likely would have happened in that era.  Joe retired same age, doubtful he would have cracked 3,000 hits, mainly he walked so many more times than Puckett. 

Not saying Puckett is not HOF, but if he is, Joe for sure is, as he did it at a position that offense is normally secondary. 

[CharlieH]

On 12/19/2022 at 10:22 AM, wsnydes said:

How dare you provide perspective!

Joe will get in if his stats as batting championships and MVPs are counted by the voters but because he played his whole career in MN. it won't be. Posada will be voted in because of his Yankee stats. No batting championships or MVPs. Also a video game was named for Joe. 

[bap3141]

I think he's a lock. Though I don't get into the whole "first ballot" speculation since a lot of it is pure gamesmanship by the voters to keep other players from falling off the ballot.

[LanceJS]

On 12/25/2022 at 7:55 PM, theBOMisthebomb said:

Yes, the Gold Glove at 1B would have been quite a feather in the cap. My worst fear is that not getting that GG will lead Joe to have a Johan Santana type HOF case that gets dismissed too quickly. Johan lost a Cy Young to Bartolo Colon when he shouldn't have and it presumably cost his HOF case a lot of votes. 

I always find it so strange that Santana got dropped so quickly. Always felt that he would be in if it were the other way around for him - had his great years with the Mets and his injury plagued ones with the Twins. I don’t think the lost Cy Young to Colon cost him votes.  

[Nine of twelve]

23 hours ago, Trov said:

Not saying Puckett is not HOF, but if he is, Joe for sure is, as he did it at a position that offense is normally secondary. 

I think the original intent of the HOF was to honor extraordinary players, and I also think that's how it should be. But, as is probably inevitable, over the course of time a number of good-but-not-extraordinary players (I'm not going to name names) have been inducted. And then those players become the threshold for inducting other players. (If player A is in, then player B should be in as well, as should player C, etc.) It has become a slippery slope that has cheapened the honor of being inducted.

Mauer meets my threshold of extraordinary and deserves to be inducted.

[jorgenswest]

Are there special qualifications for a first ballot Hall of Famer? What can a player possibly do between his first and second year to earn the vote? I do get that in your first year the ballot may be crowded with several worthy names and you don’t make it. That doesn’t seem to be the case next year.

Mauer is either worthy of the Hall of Fame or not. Any voter who would vote for him the second year but leave an open spot on the ballot in the first should lose their privilege.

[ashbury]

Baseball made a mistake by not including the concept of an Inner Circle when they started the HoF in the first place. So the writers feel the responsibility to make that Inner Circle designation themselves by voting a guy on the first ballot or not  I think it's silly, but I also wouldn't revoke a voter's privilege just on that account - the thought process has its own internal logic.  But if Joe doesn't get in on the first ballot, I'll be pulling for him to get the needed votes on the second go-round, or thereafter, as opposed to demanding that voters remain "consistent" from year to year. 

For me he's an easy first-ballot Yes vote. But then (see first sentence above) I'm a Large Hall guy. Baseball should celebrate its best players to the maximum extent possible, and not be constantly downgrading them with arguments amounting to "well, but he wasn't THAT good."  Save that for the informal Inner Circle debates.

[Nine of twelve]

4 hours ago, ashbury said:

I'm a Large Hall guy. Baseball should celebrate its best players to the maximum extent possible, and not be constantly downgrading them with arguments amounting to "well, but he wasn't THAT good."

That's fine. But by saying "its best players" you are saying that you still have a personal set of criteria for induction. You just set the bar lower than others might. So you'll still be having the "well, but he wasn't THAT good" discussion. And it's going to be even more difficult to set the bar "properly" when it's set lower.

[ashbury]

9 minutes ago, Nine of twelve said:

That's fine. But by saying "its best players" you are saying that you still have a personal set of criteria for induction. You just set the bar lower than others might. So you'll still be having the "well, but he wasn't THAT good" discussion. It's just going to be even more difficult to set the bar "properly" when it's set lower.

Of course there has to be a threshold and a discussion. I just want the heated discussion to be about Brian McCann and not about Joe Mauer. About "just a guy who played" and not a lot of fans' favorite player. And no, it shouldn't be just a popularity contest either. I'm fine with a panel such as the BBWAA taking a measured look at things. Just... open the doors a bit.  Let fans have fun looking back.

[theBOMisthebomb]

On 12/27/2022 at 8:51 PM, LanceJS said:

I always find it so strange that Santana got dropped so quickly. Always felt that he would be in if it were the other way around for him - had his great years with the Mets and his injury plagued ones with the Twins. I don’t think the lost Cy Young to Colon cost him votes.  

That's an interesting and unique take on switching the teams around in Santana's career and I agree. As for the not getting three Cy Youngs, I believe it dearly cost him. Voters not very familiar with his career would have seen the 3 awards and maybe given Santana some consideration. There is a clear line of distinction between two and three Cy Young awards: 

Clemens 7 - we all know why he's not HOF yet; Randy Johnson 5 - HOF; Greg Maddux 4 - HOF; Steve Carlton 4 - HOF; Justin Verlander 3 - future HOF; Max Scherzer 3 - most likely future HOF; Clayton Kershaw 3 - most likely future HOF; Pedro Martinez - HOF; Jim Palmer -HOF; Tom Seaver 3 - HOF; Sandy Koufax 3 - HOF. 

Pitchers with 2 Cy Young Awards

Jacob deGrom (NL 2018-19) probably not having an HOF career as of now 

Corey Kluber (AL 2014, '17) probably not having an HOF career as of now

Roy Halladay (AL 2003, NL 2010) HOF

Tim Lincecum (NL 2008-09) off HOF ballot after one year 

Johan Santana (AL 2004, '06)

Tom Glavine (NL 1991, '98) HOF 

Bret Saberhagen (AL 1985, '89) off HOF ballot after one year 

Gaylord Perry (AL 1972, NL 1978) HOF

Bob Gibson (NL 1968, '70) HOF 

Denny McLain (AL 1968-69) not in the HOF 

Who knows, maybe Johan didn't get that third Cy Young for a reason. That would have likely been difficult for some voters to vote yes on Santana considering he was a one and done case with only 2.4 percent voting yes.  

 

 

 

[DJL44]

On 12/26/2022 at 6:16 PM, tony&rodney said:

Mauer is also a consensus top ten all time catcher in MLB history. 

Consensus by who?

Obviously better: Josh Gibson, Johnny Bench, Yogi Berra, Mike Piazza, Ivan Rodriguez, Gary Carter, Bill Dickey, Gabby Hartnett, Carlton Fisk, Mickey Cochrane, Louis Santop

Arguably better: Deacon White, Buck Ewing, Roy Campanella, Roger Bresnahan

About as good by WAR: Joe Torre, Ted Simmons

[DJL44]

On 12/27/2022 at 2:07 PM, CharlieH said:

Also a video game was named for Joe. 

Yasiel Puig for the Hall of Fame!

[Nine of twelve]

19 hours ago, DJL44 said:

Consensus by who?

Obviously better: Josh Gibson, Johnny Bench, Yogi Berra, Mike Piazza, Ivan Rodriguez, Gary Carter, Bill Dickey, Gabby Hartnett, Carlton Fisk, Mickey Cochrane, Louis Santop

Arguably better: Deacon White, Buck Ewing, Roy Campanella, Roger Bresnahan

About as good by WAR: Joe Torre, Ted Simmons

Obviously better, arguably better, and about as good according to who?

[DJL44]

4 hours ago, Nine of twelve said:

Obviously better, arguably better, and about as good according to who?

According to me. I'm not the one claiming consensus on something where there is definitely not consensus.