Sucks to say, but I don't think this team is competing for any playoff spot anytime soon.

[troyjuhn]

Of course, we play in the central, so it's always going to be close, and I'm not saying the current roster is bad. This offseason has been very disappointing, and not signing Correa, and somehow missing on him twice after the Giants debacle really stings. But just look at our roster. Does this team beat the Guardians to the division title? Who has better pitching? Guardians. Who has the better lineup? Guardians. That is where we should be. But just looking at our team, I see a lot of unproven young players who have a lot of potential, players who can break out and have amazing seasons, but right now? I don't trust this team. I don't trust the front office, nor management. It sucks. Max win total I'll say for us right now is 80 wins with this roster. 

[Richie the Rally Goat]

1 hour ago, troyjuhn said:

Of course, we play in the central, so it's always going to be close, and I'm not saying the current roster is bad. This offseason has been very disappointing, and not signing Correa, and somehow missing on him twice after the Giants debacle really stings. But just look at our roster. Does this team beat the Guardians to the division title? Who has better pitching? Guardians. Who has the better lineup? Guardians. That is where we should be. But just looking at our team, I see a lot of unproven young players who have a lot of potential, players who can break out and have amazing seasons, but right now? I don't trust this team. I don't trust the front office, nor management. It sucks. Max win total I'll say for us right now is 80 wins with this roster. 

Twins went backwards and now have to swing trades to improve.

[SanoMustGo]

3 hours ago, troyjuhn said:

Of course, we play in the central, so it's always going to be close, and I'm not saying the current roster is bad. This offseason has been very disappointing, and not signing Correa, and somehow missing on him twice after the Giants debacle really stings. But just look at our roster. Does this team beat the Guardians to the division title? Who has better pitching? Guardians. Who has the better lineup? Guardians. That is where we should be. But just looking at our team, I see a lot of unproven young players who have a lot of potential, players who can break out and have amazing seasons, but right now? I don't trust this team. I don't trust the front office, nor management. It sucks. Max win total I'll say for us right now is 80 wins with this roster. 

Two things...not sure Cleveland has a better lineup.  But pitching...yes, defense...yes...intangibles?  Manager...not even close...LOL.  It's like a man competing against a boy.  The other thing is the ability to make a play when necessary...not even worth discussing. Leadership and intangibles...one team has it, the other lacks sorely.

[theBOMisthebomb]

As someone else already mentioned, competing for a playoff spot in the weak Al Central is attainable. That isn't really too impressive and not really a success marker. I'd amend the statement to, "The Twins won't be competing for a World Series title or being a factor in the playoffs anytime soon."

[Nashvilletwin]

2 hours ago, SanoMustGo said:

Two things...not sure Cleveland has a better lineup.  But pitching...yes, defense...yes...intangibles?  Manager...not even close...LOL.  It's like a man competing against a boy.  The other thing is the ability to make a play when necessary...not even worth discussing. Leadership and intangibles...one team has it, the other lacks sorely.

This x 100. 

[bap3141]

I think they still can, but they need a lot of things to break right. Their front office and ownership didn't do the team any favors.

 

[bap3141]

1 hour ago, theBOMisthebomb said:

As someone else already mentioned, competing for a playoff spot in the weak Al Central is attainable. That isn't really too impressive and not really a success marker. I'd amend the statement to, "The Twins won't be competing for a World Series title or being a factor in the playoffs anytime soon."

That's just it. I don't care if they win the Central with 86 wins. If they're going to just get swept again in the wild card series or ALDS by some team with double their payroll, then I'd rather they just miss all together. Save me the heartache.

[theBOMisthebomb]

3 hours ago, bap3141 said:

That's just it. I don't care if they win the Central with 86 wins. If they're going to just get swept again in the wild card series or ALDS by some team with double their payroll, then I'd rather they just miss all together. Save me the heartache.

Well, I've learned to get detached from outcome to allow myself to enjoy the season. The Twins have won one playoff series in the last 30 years and currently hold the all-time record for most playoff losses in a row. If I keep things in perspective such as just enjoying the game or soaking in the atmosphere at Target Field while not getting too focused on the score then it helps. It's almost a defense mechanism. 2019 I let my guard down and believed in the Bomba Squad and they ended up with the same old result of getting swept. I learned my lesson during that season. 

[Squirrel]

10 hours ago, SanoMustGo said:

Manager...not even close...LOL

When the other manager is Francona, that would be true of just about every team in baseball

[CRF]

Agree 100%. We ain't even in the conversation right now. The FO needs to get their act together and make some deals. 

[MABB1959]

17 hours ago, troyjuhn said:

Of course, we play in the central, so it's always going to be close, and I'm not saying the current roster is bad. This offseason has been very disappointing, and not signing Correa, and somehow missing on him twice after the Giants debacle really stings. But just look at our roster. Does this team beat the Guardians to the division title? Who has better pitching? Guardians. Who has the better lineup? Guardians. That is where we should be. But just looking at our team, I see a lot of unproven young players who have a lot of potential, players who can break out and have amazing seasons, but right now? I don't trust this team. I don't trust the front office, nor management. It sucks. Max win total I'll say for us right now is 80 wins with this roster. 

MLB has Cleveland in the top 10 (10th) in their Rank The Best Line-ups in Baseball.

[Malachi]

10 hours ago, bap3141 said:

That's just it. I don't care if they win the Central with 86 wins. If they're going to just get swept again in the wild card series or ALDS by some team with double their payroll, then I'd rather they just miss all together. Save me the heartache.

Don't get "Pre-miserable" 

[August J Gloop]

7 minutes ago, MABB1959 said:

MLB has Cleveland in the top 10 (10th) in their Rank The Best Line-ups in Baseball.

That would be based on? in 2022 CLE had a WRC+ of 99 for 16th overall. I doubt adding Josh Bell makes them jump 6 spots. 

[MABB1959]

1 hour ago, August J Gloop said:

That would be based on? in 2022 CLE had a WRC+ of 99 for 16th overall. I doubt adding Josh Bell makes them jump 6 spots. 

Here is a link to the article:  Best MLB lineups in 2023 predictions

"Look at the pesky young Guards weaseling their way into the top 10. They were decisively a middle-of-the-pack offense last year, ranked 15th in runs per game (4.31). But it’s not really a big leap from 15th to 10th, and I would argue that Cleveland can make it by drastically improving two positions (DH and catcher) where it ranked 29th in OPS last season (Bell and Naylor can now essentially share the 1B/DH at-bats). Bell and Zunino both bring needed power to the equation. Add a little muscle to a club that had the best contact rate (80.8 percent) and ranked fourth in FanGraphs’ Baserunning score (13.2) last year, and you’ve got the makings of a top 10 offense."

Twins are not mentioned.

[Adam Neisen]

19 hours ago, troyjuhn said:

Of course, we play in the central, so it's always going to be close, and I'm not saying the current roster is bad. This offseason has been very disappointing, and not signing Correa, and somehow missing on him twice after the Giants debacle really stings. But just look at our roster. Does this team beat the Guardians to the division title? Who has better pitching? Guardians. Who has the better lineup? Guardians. That is where we should be. But just looking at our team, I see a lot of unproven young players who have a lot of potential, players who can break out and have amazing seasons, but right now? I don't trust this team. I don't trust the front office, nor management. It sucks. Max win total I'll say for us right now is 80 wins with this roster. 

I think the main thing is injuries. If we stay healthy, our lineup matches Cleveland and we can compete with them down the stretch. 

[nicksaviking]

The vets played below their capabilities, they had injuries that they couldn't overcome, and they were way too slow in bringing in many of the young players. Everyone legitimately complained about them under performing last year, so I don't really think last year's record is a very good barometer for next year's predictions. They should be better, even without Correa.

I'm beyond disappointed they didn't improve the team with a big time free agent or two as it was easily within their means, but they should be better next year anyway, simply by letting the younger, more talented players get more at bats and innings. As much as I hate this team getting away with a low payroll, I don't want them clogging up the roster with mediocre vets just because they have money to spend.

[Mike Sixel]

2 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

The vets played below their capabilities, they had injuries that they couldn't overcome, and they were way too slow in bringing in many of the young players. Everyone legitimately complained about them under performing last year, so I don't really think last year's record is a very good barometer for next year's predictions. They should be better, even without Correa.

I'm beyond disappointed they didn't improve the team with a big time free agent or two as it was easily within their means, but they should be better next year anyway, simply by letting the younger, more talented players get more at bats and innings. As much as I hate this team getting away with a low payroll, I don't want them clogging up the roster with mediocre vets just because they have money to spend.

Bundy and Archer had the two highest ERAs on the team among starting pitchers.......they really needed to call up Varland sooner. 

They literally ran out their 6-8th best OFers at the same time for multiple weeks. Injuries killed them.

They could be better next year just with average health. Not counting on everyone, but average health. 

Also, Ryan was a rookie. Jeffers was hurt. They have a much better catching tandem. 

Do I expect them to be great? No. Would I be shocked if they were .500 or so, not at all.

[gman]

Lucky this is late December. Maybe they'll compete in 8 weeks.?

[August J Gloop]

20 minutes ago, MABB1959 said:

Here is a link to the article:  Best MLB lineups in 2023 predictions

"Look at the pesky young Guards weaseling their way into the top 10. They were decisively a middle-of-the-pack offense last year, ranked 15th in runs per game (4.31). But it’s not really a big leap from 15th to 10th, and I would argue that Cleveland can make it by drastically improving two positions (DH and catcher) where it ranked 29th in OPS last season (Bell and Naylor can now essentially share the 1B/DH at-bats). Bell and Zunino both bring needed power to the equation. Add a little muscle to a club that had the best contact rate (80.8 percent) and ranked fourth in FanGraphs’ Baserunning score (13.2) last year, and you’ve got the makings of a top 10 offense."

Twins are not mentioned.

Mike Zunino? He of the career WRC+ of 88? I suppose technically it is an improvement over the 81/42 That Maile and Meadows put up last year. 

What I think people really don't grasp about 22 for the twins is that even with all the trash they ate in the injury department, they went 6-13 despite having a zero run differential against Cleveland. In order for that to happen, CLE had to have won several one run games (or i suppose the wins could have had one 24 run victory in there). That means the difference between the Twins and CLE last year was roughly 7 innings. Flip the result and the twins are tied with CLE. Both teams would have had 85 wins and the Twins would have won the division.

CLE had 4 wins against the twins that were >1 and one of those was a walk off homer, so it's really a 1 run win as well. That means MIN went 1-9 in 1 run games against CLE. Twins record in 1 run games overall? 20-28. They had hideous luck against CLE last year. (CLE went 28-17). Basically you expect to be around 500 in 1 run games, and apart from the weird match up both teams were close to it. Move the 1-9 to 5-5 and the twins are 24-24 (and coincidently also 82-80 overall). CLE still sits at 24-21 (86-76), a little over 500 is not that strange. 

Clase pitched in 10 games against the twins and gave up 1 run. 9 games against KC? 7 runs. So much weird luck.

CLE going to October was powered almost exclusively by the Twins bad luck against them. Of course, CLE beat NYY in the post, so for the traumatized fan, that means they're a dynasty killer. When really it was the sudden lack of juiced ball that knocked the yankees out. 

 

 

[bap3141]

4 hours ago, Malachi said:

Don't get "Pre-miserable" 

Huh? 

[bap3141]

1 hour ago, Mike Sixel said:

Bundy and Archer had the two highest ERAs on the team among starting pitchers.......they really needed to call up Varland sooner. 

And stop handing the ball to Pagan in key moments against the Guardians. Baldelli's stubborness there is mind boggling. The series in late June and early July were killers.

[Mike Sixel]

2 minutes ago, bap3141 said:

And stop handing the ball to Pagan in key moments against the Guardians. Baldelli's stubborness there is mind boggling. The series in late June and early July were killers.

Definitely the most frustrating managerial decisions for me last year.

[Malachi]

23 minutes ago, bap3141 said:

Huh? 

If you listen to "Gleeman and the Geek", you would understand. 

[bap3141]

Just now, Malachi said:

If you listen to "Gleeman and the Geek", you would understand. 

Ah, sorry... I don't. 

[Malachi]

Just now, bap3141 said:

Ah, sorry... I don't. 

That's alright. It's a great podcast though

[bap3141]

34 minutes ago, Malachi said:

That's alright. It's a great podcast though

I have listened to it a few times in the past. It's not my cup of tea.

[rwilfong86]

They're a 90-100 loss team next season at least. 

[rwilfong86]

20 hours ago, SanoMustGo said:

Two things...not sure Cleveland has a better lineup.  But pitching...yes, defense...yes...intangibles?  Manager...not even close...LOL.  It's like a man competing against a boy.  The other thing is the ability to make a play when necessary...not even worth discussing. Leadership and intangibles...one team has it, the other lacks sorely.

Cleveland has a much better lineup. MLB.com actually has them predicted to be #10 for 2023 for what it is worth. https://www.mlb.com/news/best-mlb-lineups-in-2023-predictions

[rwilfong86]

2 hours ago, Malachi said:

That's alright. It's a great podcast though

It really is. I listen to it every Friday. 

[Malachi]

2 hours ago, bap3141 said:

I have listened to it a few times in the past. It's not my cup of tea.

That's alright.