Rumor: Breaking Down Potential Dansby Suitors

[Richie the Rally Goat]

1 hour ago, In My La Z boy said:

Make Rodon happen for $600 Alex?

Million? 
sure it’s been a crazy hot stove, but not that crazy 

[jmlease1]

8 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

Well yes, but the goal is still to accumulate as many guys who can play up the middle as possible. I don't understand anyone arguing that the Twins shouldn't bring in a top flight SS because they have Lewis and Lee (some even mention Martin and Miller). Guys having to slide down the defensive spectrum is not bad. 

Tatis already has his deal, but he's not a good fielder at SS. His hitting with what I'd guess is above average defense in RF (or CF or LF) based on his athleticism is more than worth his contract. Bogaerts better not lose anything off his bat even if he is playing SS. It's an awfully big drop from SS to DH, though. I'd guess there's a middle step and he's not a DH in 4 years. Especially since Machado is likely to opt out after next season if he hits anything like he did last year.

Mookie Betts got a bigger deal than Correa and he plays RF. Aaron Judge is also a RFer with a bigger deal than Correa. Superstars get paid no matter where they play. Mike Trout is going to move to a corner pretty soon I'd guess, is he less valuable to the Angels when he does? I'm pretty sure they'll feel he's plenty valuable with his bat no matter where he stands on the field.

there's more value in having guys who can hit well at positions where most guys can't, though. It's part of why Mauer was so awesome at catcher. As long as Trout keeps hitting, yeah he'll still be hugely valuable even if he slides to a corner OF spot, but maybe he's no longer a perennial MVP. Part of what made Judge's season so special this year was he played most of it in CF, not RF.

[ashbury]

2 hours ago, In My La Z boy said:

Make Rodon happen for $600 Alex?

Rename the team as the Yankees, because the rumors are that's where he wants to go.  Deal with the trademark infringement at a later time.

[chpettit19]

15 minutes ago, jmlease1 said:

there's more value in having guys who can hit well at positions where most guys can't, though. It's part of why Mauer was so awesome at catcher. As long as Trout keeps hitting, yeah he'll still be hugely valuable even if he slides to a corner OF spot, but maybe he's no longer a perennial MVP. Part of what made Judge's season so special this year was he played most of it in CF, not RF.

Mike Trout and Aaron Judge are both winning MVPs with the seasons they've had if they're in RF. I agree, having guys up the middle who can hit is an advantage, but having guys on the corners who can still hit, but also field like up the middle guys is also an advantage. And it's the ultimate goal. Collect as many "tools" as possible. You want everyone to be a 5 tool guy. 

All I'm saying is that having too many shortstops isn't a bad thing in and of itself. Having Swanson for 6 years and having Lee and Lewis both turn out to be star SSs in the bigs is a fantastic problem to have. Cuz now you have SS quality defenders at 2B and 3B (or I'd put Lewis in the OF). 

[RJA]

Heyman's latest article in Post suggests Twins not really in on Swanson and are reassessing where they go from here.

[darin617]

5 hours ago, nicksaviking said:

Things seem to work out exactly how Atlanta likes them to work out recently. My bet is all the other teams recognize Swanson is much closer to league average than he is to Correa/Bogaerts/Turner and no one offers him the deal he wants allowing Atlanta to swoop in late and re-sign for one of those traditional home-town-discount deals they've become known for.

Sounds about right. Also, teams won't want to give up a draft pick to sign him to a 2-3 year deal with opt outs.

[ashbury]

1 hour ago, RJA said:

Heyman's latest article in Post suggests Twins not really in on Swanson and are reassessing where they go from here.

What? Reassessing? Now, in the heat of battle, as it were? They didn't war-game this in September-October, following obvious pairs of scenarios such as "Correa signs with us" and "Correa doesn't sign with us" to their logical conclusions?  I'd be... ahem... unimpressed to learn that.

Reassessing would have been for if Cincinnati had asked too much for Farmer...

[dxpavelka]

Wife plays in Chicago.  'nuff said

[chpettit19]

1 hour ago, ashbury said:

What? Reassessing? Now, in the heat of battle, as it were? They didn't war-game this in September-October, following obvious pairs of scenarios such as "Correa signs with us" and "Correa doesn't sign with us" to their logical conclusions?  I'd be... ahem... unimpressed to learn that.

Reassessing would have been for if Cincinnati had asked too much for Farmer...

The quote was actually "The Twins appear to be regrouping after losing out on Carlos Correa, so Swanson’s likely out."

So, does regrouping make you feel any better?

That 1 sentence may have pushed me over the edge from "we'll see what plan B was and give them the rest of the offseason because they couldn't have possibly not had multiple backup plans for the 100% certainty that Correa wouldn't sign for 285 million" to "fire these guys now because plan A was clearly to sign Correa for no more than 285 and there was no real plan B."

[ashbury]

14 minutes ago, chpettit19 said:

So, does regrouping make you feel any better?

Slightly. And I hope my wording, at least in conclusion, indicated I don't take reports like that entirely at face value.  It's preposterous they would really stop in their tracks to reassess, rather than pivot to an already-planned Plan B or C.

But the signal coming out from that writer doesn't add any reassurance, does it.

[chpettit19]

3 minutes ago, ashbury said:

Slightly. And I hope my wording, at least in conclusion, indicated I don't take reports like that entirely at face value.  It's preposterous they would really stop in their tracks to reassess, rather than pivot to an already-planned Plan B or C.

But the signal coming out from that writer doesn't add any reassurance, does it.

No, it doesn't. The reporting on pretty much every offseason, and trade deadline, for this FO has felt like they don't have a real plan and are kind of making it up as they go. Last deadline felt more planned, and I was hoping that'd lead into a more planned feeling offseason, but that hasn't been the case so far. 

I fully admit it's a fool's errand to judge these things from the outside based on whatever reports we get, but being a fan is sometimes foolish. My real problem is that this feels like a payroll reduction they're trying to cover up with leaks and reports for as long as they can, and I find that unacceptable.

Even if they end up spending 130-150 million it's likely going to be a collection of over the hill vets, and I'm done with that. JD Martinez is intriguing, but if him or Vazquez are the biggest signings in an offseason where you have 60 million to spend and a 40-man full of young, cheap players you've failed. They can salvage a few decent signings still, but it's hard to see any chance of this offseason not being extremely disappointing. The fans deserve better. 

[dxpavelka]

"Maybe they’ll even extend their comfort zone to go big enough to beat out the obviously aggressive, big-thinking, smaller market Twins."--Gordon Wittenmyer  NBC Sports Chicago's Cubs Insider on the Cubs pursuit of Dansby Swanson.

[USAFChief]

1 hour ago, chpettit19 said:

The quote was actually "The Twins appear to be regrouping after losing out on Carlos Correa, so Swanson’s likely out."

So, does regrouping make you feel any better?

That 1 sentence may have pushed me over the edge from "we'll see what plan B was and give them the rest of the offseason because they couldn't have possibly not had multiple backup plans for the 100% certainty that Correa wouldn't sign for 285 million" to "fire these guys now because plan A was clearly to sign Correa for no more than 285 and there was no real plan B."

See, I think Kyle Farmer was always plan A.

Plan B was to be "in on" Carlos Correa.

[chpettit19]

9 hours ago, USAFChief said:

See, I think Kyle Farmer was always plan A.

Plan B was to be "in on" Carlos Correa.

I wouldn't doubt that Farmer was plan A. That doesn't make me feel better because you're right and being "in on" deserves to be in quotes. They weren't "in on" Correa if their best offer truly was 285. In that case they should've been signing guys the last month. More than just Vazquez. And not waiting for everyone worth truly investing in to be gone. It's feeling more and more like plan A, B, C, and D were all "payroll reduction." If it wasn't then they haven't changed from their unsuccessful "1 year deal for over the hill vets and cross our fingers they catch lightning in a bottle for that 1 year" strategy and I want no part of that strategy anymore.

I've usually been able to see some sort of logic and game plan in their strategies. Even if I didn't agree with them. I'm failing to see a decent strategy anywhere in this offseason, and that's really disappointing. 

[ashbury]

1 hour ago, chpettit19 said:

I wouldn't doubt that Farmer was plan A. That doesn't make me feel better because you're right and being "in on" deserves to be in quotes. They weren't "in on" Correa if their best offer truly was 285. In that case they should've been signing guys the last month. More than just Vazquez. And not waiting for everyone worth truly investing in to be gone. It's feeling more and more like plan A, B, C, and D were all "payroll reduction." If it wasn't then they haven't changed from their unsuccessful "1 year deal for over the hill vets and cross our fingers they catch lightning in a bottle for that 1 year" strategy and I want no part of that strategy anymore.

I've usually been able to see some sort of logic and game plan in their strategies. Even if I didn't agree with them. I'm failing to see a decent strategy anywhere in this offseason, and that's really disappointing. 

I look at it more as execution*.  They seemed to have believed they had invoked logic and planning and strategy. 

They couldn't execute. 

The off-season's not over and maybe that blunt assessment will turn out to be premature.

 

* I'll save everyone the trouble, "wait, the front office's execution? Yes, I'm in favor of it."  Har.

[chpettit19]

16 minutes ago, ashbury said:

I look at it more as execution*.  They seemed to have believed they had invoked logic and planning and strategy. 

They couldn't execute. 

The off-season's not over and maybe that blunt assessment will turn out to be premature.

 

* I'll save everyone the trouble, "wait, the front office's execution? Yes, I'm in favor of it."  Har.

The blunt assessment likely is premature, and I'm usually the "offseason isn't over yet" guy.

But, that being said, I don't want trades so if that's their pivot move I'll be disappointed. They don't have enough prospects left to ship anymore out and have a real shot at staying competitive (unless they're suddenly going to be willing to pay whatever established player they bring in a market level extension, but they should've just paid free agents if that were the case). And they don't have a surplus of anything on the big league roster to make a trade from 1 position to boost another one so to me it'd just be moving the holes around while not filling any.

I don't see any real "problem solvers" left on the free agent market. Just more 1 year deals for Eovaldi types. Benintendi would be nice, but we don't need another lefty corner outfielder, and I think he'll get overpaid for his platform year performance last year. JD Martinez would be a nice DH option, but that's another 1 year deal for a likely non-difference maker. Swanson would be nice, but I also think he gets severely overpaid. 

They're much smarter than me, and have way more info, so there's a very real possibility they make some moves that are helpful. But I don't see those moves, or at least not enough of them to truly make a difference, and I'm at the point where I need to see to believe that they've changed their MO and strategies that have failed miserably the last couple seasons.

[adorduan]

23 hours ago, In My La Z boy said:

Hard pass. SS is the one place on the diamond we should be covered for the next 6 years no problem. By June we should be looking at Royce or Lee - and we better. 2 #1 picks. One of them better be the SS of the future. Please spend our money on PITCHING. Cannot possibly have enough quality PITCHING.

there's no pitching left to spend on....

[Richie the Rally Goat]

23 hours ago, chpettit19 said:

No, it doesn't. The reporting on pretty much every offseason, and trade deadline, for this FO has felt like they don't have a real plan and are kind of making it up as they go. Last deadline felt more planned, and I was hoping that'd lead into a more planned feeling offseason, but that hasn't been the case so far. 

I fully admit it's a fool's errand to judge these things from the outside based on whatever reports we get, but being a fan is sometimes foolish. My real problem is that this feels like a payroll reduction they're trying to cover up with leaks and reports for as long as they can, and I find that unacceptable.

Even if they end up spending 130-150 million it's likely going to be a collection of over the hill vets, and I'm done with that. JD Martinez is intriguing, but if him or Vazquez are the biggest signings in an offseason where you have 60 million to spend and a 40-man full of young, cheap players you've failed. They can salvage a few decent signings still, but it's hard to see any chance of this offseason not being extremely disappointing. The fans deserve better. 

Last offseason had a plan? “Holy crap look at all the pitchers sign, let’s get Dylan Bundy” and “OMG that flier on Correa worked!” was a plan?!

 

[chpettit19]

12 minutes ago, Richie the Rally Goat said:

Last offseason had a plan? “Holy crap look at all the pitchers sign, let’s get Dylan Bundy” and “OMG that flier on Correa worked!” was a plan?!

 

Last deadline, as in trade deadline. They felt like they had a plan with bringing in arms and executed it pretty well, in my opinion. I was hoping that would then bleed into this offseason.