Gut Punch! Carlos Correa Signs with the Giants

[Nashvilletwin]

5 minutes ago, terrydactyls said:

IMHO, the best move for the Twins between now and spring training is to sign as many players as they can that they believe can be traded in late July.  

Haha - when you think about it, they already have a lot who won’t be part of the next “open window”: Kepler, Polanco, Farmer, maybe Arraez (hopefully he stays) Lopez, and at least two of Mahle, Maeda, and Gray. Others? 

[roger]

8 hours ago, big dog said:

I am just so relieved to hear that he will finally be able to give his family a good life. 

Can't wait for all the things he says about how great the Bay Area is.  Hopefully he can buy a mansion near a Dior store.

 

That million or two million dollar mansion he would have bought in Minny is going to cost him ten million in the Bay area.  And when he goes into the Dior store, prices are going to be a lot higher than the store here, is there one?

Don't have twitter, but count me amongst those who say we dodged the bullet.  Minnesota sports fans know all too well how 13-year contracts work out, just ask the Wild.

[Russ]

Short term affect if signed would have been fine.  Long term disaster.  It would also force the braintrust to keep spending or act like they wanted to play with big boys.  Evaluate and develop your players and make Minnesota be a free agent destination.  Something lacking already.

[DJL44]

1 hour ago, EGFTShaw said:

then why not tack on the opportunity for partial ownership. 

That's only allowed with commissioner approval. You can't be an executive and an employee.

[Trov]

Based on the reported offer, I believe we made a fair competitive offer.  Could we have jumped to 10 and 300, most likely, but doubt that would have got it done.  This was likely to be Correa's last contract, because at 10 years he would have been 38 at end of it.  Maybe he would have been playing at level to get a 1 year deal for something, but odds are not good on that.  So those extra 3 years he was not going to earn an extra 50 mil if he signed just a 10 year 300 mil. 

Personally, I am glad we did not try to match the length because only a very few position players have ever been replacement level into late 30's.  He will most likely transition to 3b in 3 to 5 years.  Will he be elite hitter and good enough defender in his late 30's early 40's to stay in field, doubtful.  So he most likely shifts to DH.  

I do not wish him any ill will, but if we would have matched, assuming that would have got him to stay here, we would have been not happy with his production the last 5 years if not more.  Larger market teams can take on that bad money easier than a mid-market like Twins.  

Will we pay big for Swanson, maybe, not sure we should at this point.  I mean, we have several guys that could eventually step in.  Do we think Swanson is that much better on defense than what hopeufully Lewis brings?  Swanson is not a top offensive guy.  He is coming off his best offensive season, in a contract year, something that is not uncommon.  It is by far his best season ever, can we really expect he sustain it for the length he is most likely seeking?  

I doubt the Twins take on a bad deal just to say well we spent, they do not seem like that kind of FO.  Do we spend big on Rodon?  I doubt we give him the length he wants, but if he does not get that length we may spend bigger per year over shorter term, but if a team offers him the 7 or more years he has been seeking, no way do we go that long. 

The length of some of these contracts are getting crazy, but the reason for it is to manipulate the tax number.  Teams are adding several years on to deals to get the average value down, and are actually front loading the deals in terms of how they are paying it out.  The big market teams are offering many years past prime to draw out that money expecting the tax number to increase by end of contract. 

[DJL44]

54 minutes ago, Nine of twelve said:

The only good thing about the whole situation is that by negotiating for Correa's services the Twins Mets forced another team to overpay by a whole lot, thereby making it more difficult for that team to improve their roster in other ways.

Fixed

[tarheeltwinsfan]

Sometimes in life, it is best not to get what you want. We all want the Twins players to want to play for the Twins. But in reality, who can blame Correa for getting an additional 65 million dollars, although it will be spread out. If I had the knowledge and skills, I could figure the present day cost of both the Twins' offer and the Giants' offer, and the difference in present day dollars would be less than 65 million. Inflation is a double edged sword. It's not really 285 million vs. 350 million. But I do want to congratulate Carlos Correa and wish him well in his life. And I hope the Giants regret paying this much money for the next two decades.  

[Tibs]

It sucks losing him. Most of my posts were referencing that we need to sign him to be serious about winning.

The Twins made a serious offer. 13 years is ridiculous and would have been a bad decision

[bighat]

1 hour ago, Riverbrian said:

Good Morning... I slept great. What is everyone talking about this morning? 

 

LOL, reminds me of the "What'd I miss" posts in the game threads. 

[wavedog]

Well, when we signed Correa last year I told myself I would enjoy watching his one season with the Twins and then be prepared for him to move on to greener pastures.  Still this news is disappointing as I thought we had a chance to sign him.    I did enjoy watching his one season with us solid defense and hitting - great teammate - but now we move on.    I can't see these big contracts playing out well in the long run but as everyone has said the rich teams can afford to take the hit.   I kind of view his deal as a 7 yr $50M per year deal as I see him with about 7 solid full seasons out of the 13. How many 35+ year old shortstops are out there?  And once you get the big guaranteed money does that take some of the edge off?  Your 35 year old self can change from your 28 year old self.        

[whosafraidofluigirussolo]

2 hours ago, MABB1959 said:

The problem with the young solid core is that once they have value, we traded them away for more prosects.  Been that way for as long as I can remember.  Buxton is the only value player that came from the Twins system that is of great value and still here.  Seems like Polanco is halfway out the door as well.

Missing E Escobar, E Rosario, Hicks, imagine if we kept Ramos, 

 

Who was the last young core? In my view: Buxton, Berríos, Polanco, Kepler, Sanó, Rosario. 
Four of those six guys got extended before they hit free agency. A couple of those deals look really good for the team (/owners) now, and a couple look less so, but even with Kepler perceived as a bit of a disappointment, the trade rumors suggest that both the player and the contract have some value.

Berríos...I don't know. I wanted to see him stay, and his extension from the Jays seemed like something the Twins clearly could have done. Then he was kinda bad this year. Is he going to bounce back, or did the Twins know something to suggest he wouldn't hold up, or did they get lucky? I guess we'll see over the next few years. I do believe the FO's claim that they weren't committed to trading him and had to really like the trade offer in order to do the deal.

Rosario had some great qualities and some big faults. Fun player, but the Twins choosing not to get on the hook for the final year of arbitration salary for a player like that is not an uncommon kind of decision across the league.

 

The Twins certainly have done their share of trading established players for prospects, but it's hard to look at recent years and see them truly dismantling any kind of core. Imagine if you were following the A's, say, or the Marlins when they traded their entire outfield a few years ago.

[DJL44]

I'm not optimistic about the Twins signing Dansby Swanson. There are more teams in on him (Dodgers, Cubs, Braves, Red Sox) than were interested in Correa. Those teams all have deeper pockets than the Twins.

[prouster]

I’m disappointed they didn’t sign him, but man that’s a long contract. 

[Riverbrian]

Cell Phone Rings

Falvey: Hey Scott, Have you got some good news. 

Boras: I do have good news... Just letting you know that the Giants just came in at 13 Years and 350 Big ones. Why don't you get with your people and see if you can top that. 

Falvey: I'll call you right back. 

(Hangs Up)

Falvey: Call Christian's agent... Tell him we have a deal at 3 and 30. 

 

[Linus]

Huge blessing in disguise. Stay far away from Swanson as well - one decent year at the plate. The Twins now have a chance to build the best TEAM which was never gonna happen if they signed Correa. 
sign Evoldi plus two stud relievers and wil Myers. I’m also willing to wait for Lewis. He was the first overall pick let’s see what we got once and for all.  If you sign these players and get some luck on the health front the Twins could do damage. 

[dex8425]

65 million short is not really a "competitive offer."

[Kipp35]

Really, "Gut Punch"? You felt he was going to come back here? Correa and Borras had nothing else to use the Twins for. He was never going to come back here. We could have offered him a 25-year deal, wouldn't have happened. What did we do to show him, while he was here, we were going to do what it takes to win?

Go out and do what you do, bring back Simmons or sign the 36-year-old Escobar to take over when Royce Lewis blows out his knee, again. But, remember to get a CF'er, too! Cain is 37, maybe he could play more games than Buxton... ?

Can we now quit dragging our feet and do SOMETHING that resembles a team looking like they give a damn about improving, please?

[Old Twins Hat]

Raise your hand if it's conceivable that you will not be alive in 13 years.

Hard to really be that upset.

[GeorgiaBaller]

Wow--although I have been a huge advocate for signing CC, 13 yrs is just irresponsible----and its really bad for all of baseball.  The combo of talent, clutch play, HEALTHY and LEADERSHIP was just really integral to the Twins success.  Lewis is a big ????? from a reliability standpoint.  Unfortunately, that applies to Kirriloff, Larnach and Buxton too.  There's not much of a base here that show up for work every day now--and no firebrand to lead.

I'm not up for signing Swanson---he is a nice player but overvalued in this market--he should stay with the Braves.  The only chance to bring in a difference maker is on the mound now---but we need 2.  

Looks like another 3rd or 4th place year.  I will go enjoy the weather at the park a few games this year, but it looks like MLB package subscription to enjoy the good BB I enjoy watching.  

[solomon1930]

11 minutes ago, prouster said:

I’m disappointed they didn’t sign him, but man that’s a long contract. 

It's stupid long.  Does he even think he wants to play that many more year?

Personally, I'd gone for a shorter contract with higher average, maybe 8 years / $35M for $280M.

[farmerguychris]

I can't sit here and honestly be upset with the Twins F.O. on this one. They made a more aggressive offer than they ever have before by a long margin.  They offered a higher annual value each year of the contract, and as we heard previously, likely offered opt outs.  I'm sorry but 13 years is too long a contract for any player with any years of service.  Do we want CC at any price when he's 43, let alone at $25M+?  I don't.  While in 2056, $25M might be a cheap price for a player - the odds that CC plays at even a replacement level are low.

Good try F.O. - on to the next option.  I say lets go big on pitching.  Dansby may be fine, but I'm concerned he is going to want CC type money but with only 1 real year of top level performance.

[TheBruceAbides]

Obviously C4 was instrumental within the locker room and truly brings a winner's mentality to the organization, however, can that truly be quantified at 13yr / $350M?  Frankly I don't believe so.  As many others mentioned previously, when we truly needed him the most to come up with a big game hit--he unfortunately almost always fell short.  What really is upsetting around the entire narrative is conveying this persona of wanting to stay in Minnesota.  Lets be honest, C4 was going to accept a deal which proved to be the most lucrative and offered the most stability (years).  Finally, lets stop kidding ourselves that we were even remotely close on this--for the front office to offer a deal that didn't even have a "3" in front of it (+$300M) is absolutely lying to ourselves and trying to convince our fan base that we truly went to place that was uncomfortable is a joke.

[Battle ur tail off]

2 hours ago, Vanimal46 said:

This isn’t exactly the news I wanted to wake up to. Disappointing, to say the least. These contracts that Boras is negotiating are ruining Major League Baseball. 

100%. Baseball is over for all but about 5-7 fanbases. 

It loses people because it is a slow game, and now it has gotten to a point where most of the teams don't matter at all. They are just cannon fodder for the east or west coast teams. Pile on top of that TV deals where half of the country can't even watch their hometown team.

Not sure why they don't consider a salary cap. The NFL is run right and look at it success. EVERY fanbase feels like they have a chance and they spend oodles of money supporting their teams. 

Baseball is broken and won't last more than another couple decades at most.

[AceWrigley]

8 hours ago, h2oface said:

He really wanted to stay in Minnesota. 

Glad he is in SF. It will be a Cabrera/Pujols type of sad contract for the Giants. Plus, it will really be fun in Dodger Stadium when they visit. The crowd will be even more deafening than they have been when Correa is at the plate.

Oh yeah. Dodger fans already don't like CC, and now that he is part of the hated Giants clan just made it more fun to go to Dodger Stadium for giants games.

[EGFTShaw]

1 hour ago, DJL44 said:

That's only allowed with commissioner approval. You can't be an executive and an employee.

Can you have this as an offer as after the playing is over?  That was my thinking.  Apologies for not making that clear.

[Loosey]

At first I was disappointed the Twins didn't sign here and still am sort of.  10 years was a contract length I thought would have been acceptable at around $30MM per year.  I thought 10 years would be a long time and had already wondered what a $30MM shortstop would look like in his mid to late 30's.  But 13 years to me is crazy.  He will be 41 when this contract ends.  

My son is 11 years old.  To think someone having a baby today will have a teenager by the time this contract expires boggles my mind.  In addition to that my 11 year old will be 24 years old at the end of this contract and some kid his age will likely be the best player in the major leagues at that time.

If the front office is who balked at 13 years, I get it but they likely won't be here in 13 years so the end of this contract wouldn't be there problem.  It likely was ownership who finally said "no".  

So the Twins have money to spend obviously, will they spend it now?  And if so on who?

[Dman]

If you are the Twins you had to know that to get Correa you were going to have to make him the highest paid shortstop in the sport.  Anything under 300M would have been a slap in the face IMO.  I can see why this dragged out now.  He might have wanted to come back to Minnesota and waited to see if they would move off that number but they didn't.  So off to San Fran who did what needed to be done.

Technically I was fine with however this played out.  Correa would have really helped this team especially by plugging the hole at short for the next 6 years or so.  He also might have hamstrung this team from other moves as well. Given how poorly the team did with him he wasn't the "difference maker" I was hoping he would be. Also as he aged the last few years of that contract were likely to get ugly.

If the Twins would have offered him 10\350 I am not sure the value would be there and still there was and probably never will be a player they could have felt this comfortable taking a chance on.  Positive club house guy always interested in doing the right things for himself and his teammates.  Pretty much rock solid numbers through his career. Maybe value isn't everything though as we are seeing other clubs look past it to try and field playoff type teams.  So far no one in the central has offered that large a contract to a player yet so I guess they are not alone in that regard. 

Given what happened last year I don't think this is a make or break deal but I am a little disappointed the Twins didn't offer at least a 300M contract.  IMO They were never "really" in this thing despite the reports.

[garn from vancouver]

we all knew this was coming just maybe not in the terms the giants paid out in. day one, we all knew he'd opt out. what's disappointing from a 'full of bullsh*t' level is the lying. he loves minneapolis. loves the juicey lucy. see himself as a twin for a long time. he's a cheater so why should anyone be surprised he's a liar as well? i'm glad he's gone. i love the game for the game. i don't love this game of one-up manship. what can he now do with this money that he couldn't do before? when A-rod left seattle for texas it was the same. he said he took the contract in texas because he had to think of his family. seriously? carlos just wants to be the highest paid. it's what fuels him. he wants to be the dior bag. and now he is. i will still be happy to see games and watch the team assembled play. i love the game and being in the park. sure, we'll lose a lot of games but it's still a beautiful day at the park. carlos will say all the right things at the presser. how it's a dream to be a giant. how the city is so great. that he loves a mission burrito. he's full of sh*t.

[USAFChief]

I came here just to see the "Well we tried REAL hard" article, with similar comments, and TD didn't disappoint.

 

Anybody still sticking with their "we only got Farmer as a backup" stance?

[tony&rodney]

Carlos Correa is a damn fine shortstop and he got the contract he sought. It is pointless to see the contract as bad.

The Atlanta Braves identify players to sign/develop/acquire and keep long term for somewhat reasonable contracts and trade to fill holes. The Twins were  good to sign Kepler, Polanco, and Sano to contracts. The struggle is to make your moves ahead of the curve and the last few years this has been, apparently, difficult for many unknown reasons for the Twins. 

The main reason to sign a Correa or a Rodon, in my view, is that these players should be able to lead their team for two to three years while those talented prospects and younger players get their feet accustomed to MLB. As such, guys like Verlander and Judge are worth the money. Is Rodon worth 6/$180? Based on his past, maybe not. But he is a big strong guy and seems to have come through the injuries in pretty good shape and may have that Mickey Lolich type body to throw a ton of pitches and innings for the next seven years. Thing is, the contracts and money numbers aren't going to recede like the waters of a 1965 flood. The Twins signed Kirby Puckett to a contract of $3 million and those days are past.  

The entire offseason dance swirls around managing the roster to create a better team for the following campaign. The Twins were in 1st Place for much of the summer of 2022 and still didn't excite their fan base. I would submit that despite losing out on Carlos Correa, Falvey still has ample opportunity to forge a team that is more fun to watch in 2023.