Gut Punch! Carlos Correa Signs with the Giants

[awmonahan]

I hope the FO wasn't really waiting on Correa for any additional moves. Being unwilling to go to $300mil in this market leaves you on the outside looking in.

[KirbyDome89]

1 hour ago, ashbury said:

The 13 years is nearly irrelevant. Total contract value is almost always the name of the game, and the Twins come up well short if they offered under $300M with player opt-outs as the sweetener.  The Giants will release Correa well before 13 years and just treat the remaining payments as deferred salary for the good years they actually got.

"They tried," and almost surely knew it wouldn't be close to enough.

Yep, you nailed it with the "plausible deniability," comment the other day. Also, it's cringey that we're talking about the Twins offering a higher AAV when they're short three years and $65M. 

[se7799]

1 hour ago, Nashvilletwin said:

Yeah, it always felt like that.  I wanted CC a lot, but it’s not like I can forget how worthless he was at the plate when we really needed him. September just felt like garbage time in an NFL game.

Swanson would still be a great pickup.  A Farmer solution feels like a just a placeholder waiting on a good, but risky, bet.

Without CC or Swanson, I’m not sure it makes sense to break the bank on the other Carlos. We need to face facts: we really weren’t that competitive with CC and the lineup we are projecting without him is not an upgrade.  We were realistically in somewhat of a rebuild anyway for the next year or two and now that is even more true.  Rodon will not lead us to the promised land any more than CC would have.

Nope, it’s probably time to implement that time honored small/mid market strategy - build up a young solid core at bargain rates and then splurge a bit when the window looks like it is opening. Sad, but that’s the reality of being a franchise like the Twins in a non-salary cap league.

Honestly if you think we have already been rebuild mode...I'm not sure if you have ever seen a rebuild then.Trading prospects for 2 good starting pitchers in the last 10 months does not indicate we have been rebuilding.  Just sayin.

[SwainZag]

Just now, KirbyDome89 said:

Yep, you nailed it with the "plausible deniability," comment the other day. Also, it's cringey that we're talking about the Twins offering a higher AAV when they're short three years and $65M. 

As far as total value is the 4th most lucrative contract in the big 4 major sports history.  I'm not sure if it's cringey the Twins were short.... it's a pretty insane offer.

[h2oface]

He really wanted to stay in Minnesota. 

Glad he is in SF. It will be a Cabrera/Pujols type of sad contract for the Giants. Plus, it will really be fun in Dodger Stadium when they visit. The crowd will be even more deafening than they have been when Correa is at the plate.

[KirbyDome89]

2 minutes ago, SwainZag said:

As far as total value is the 4th most lucrative contract in the big 4 major sports history.  I'm not sure if it's cringey the Twins were short.... it's a pretty insane offer.

The fact that the higher AAV is being touted when they came up well short is what's cringey, not the fact that he's no longer a member of the Twins. 

[JYTwinsFan]

With this signing, and partly because it is hitting closest to home, it solidifies for me that the 2022 offseason is a watershed moment for MLB. The size or length of any individual contract doesn't bother me. The AAV is set by the market, and kudos to the players for getting what they can, so that doesn't bother me. What bothers me is the stacking of rosters with superstars by relatively few teams. That's a real problem for baseball when a select few teams go through modes of just buying everything they can. It's essentially the opposite end of the "tanking" spectrum. They have every right to do it, and I don't think they are being foolish with their money (they have plenty, and are finally showing their cards on that fact), but for baseball, it makes a mockery of competition and fandom via sport, and instead it starts to feel like a rigged game (I'm not saying it is rigged, I'm just saying as a fan it leaves you with the same dirty feeling of watching something rigged). In the moment when it's your team and you've had a long drought, sure it can feel good, but honestly who wants to watch that every year? What fun is there in a reward if the risk has no substantive effect on behavior? It simply isn't tenable for the sport to have all of its superstars on just a few teams. It isn't tenable for all of the drama of a baseball season to be bounced around within the confines of 5-6 teams out of 30. The wider the gap gets between exciting baseball (teams) and boring baseball (teams) the worse it is for baseball.

We'll see what happens with the Twins' pivot. And I still love the Twins no matter what. But sadly this will be the first year where I'll honestly half watch baseball because it's just not setup to hold my attention anymore.

[Fat Calvin]

15 minutes ago, awmonahan said:

I hope the FO wasn't really waiting on Correa for any additional moves. Being unwilling to go to $300mil in this market leaves you on the outside looking in.

Sometimes it's better being on the outside.  And I think this is one of those times.

[Winston Smith]

1 hour ago, Rosterman said:

Well, the Twins did do $105 for 3 years with an opt out. Looks like they were willing to continue that price for up to...9 years!?!

 

Let's spend money mroe wisely. But shows the Twins would not be afraid to spend $30m on the...right...player.

They got played. They took all the risk on the contract if Correa got hurt the Twins were on the hook. If Correa played poorly the Twins were on the hook. The contract got the old agent out of the picture so Boras could get the big pay day.

[VivaBomboRivera!]

1 hour ago, ashbury said:

The Giants will release Correa well before 13 years and just treat the remaining payments as deferred salary for the good years they actually got.

Why not just set up an IRA like a normal person?

8^p

[Doc Munson]

Sad to say  that at $285M the Twins were never really serious.  Anything of 10 years or less HAD to start with a 3 given other recent signings or again it is just posturing.  Will have to see the specific annuals, but at some point MLB HAS to step in on these deals. given other deals, he was worth easily $35M per year over 10 (although at the same time NOONE is worht that much for baseball) but current climate dictates that.  SO why would someone choose a 13 year $350M deal?  just to play an extra 3 years??? heck just sign a new 3 year deal at the end of your 10 year for $5M per if all you want to do is play for 13 years.  It is clear that years 10-13 are basically "funny money" or "funny years" to manipulate salary caps. No other reason would a player who could get a $35M AAV settle for less than $27M. If all he wanted was that $350M number, if that was the number people had to hit, then heck why not just give him a 20 year deal???

I do nto know why I am so frustrated... I was hoping to see a bigger MONSTER deal, something the Twins were impossible to match or beat beat us.  but a $350M 13 year? at $26.9M AAV?  Twins coudl have EASILY done that!!! frontloading the first 8 years at $35M each = $280M  that leaves $70M over the last 5 or just a $14M average.  That is a fair deal. you pay premium for his premium years, and you get the declining years at an appropriate discount.  Again shows both that the Twins were never really in it, AND that Correa was never coming back and it was all just BS to keep the door open in case big markets wouldnt pay.

 

The worst part, is nwo what??  All the top pitchign is gone (excpet Rodon) and even though reports are Twins are "seriously in on" Rodon... yeah no.  They are "in" on him at $15M AAV. (that being said I woudlnt give a guy who barely strung to gether 2 healthy seasons 6 years at the money he will get.

 

Are we going with Dansby? will be much cheaper, but other teams will pay more.

Now the ONLY way we set ourselves up for ANY success in the future, is by essentially spending that money on horrible contracts that come paired with top prospect talent, and either buidl for a new window to open in 2 years, or overpaying in prospect value by flipping soem of the new found prospects for top young pitching.

 

Example is the Yankee situation  take on Hicks, Donaldson contracts, and Stanton's, if it means they also send top prospects like Volpe, Domiguez.  then trade from our newly refilled middle infield prospect depth to get pitching

 

[howeda7]

2 hours ago, Nashvilletwin said:

Disagree. Arraez is basically the face of the franchise right now (sorry 100 game Buxton).  He’s not being traded. 

All the more reason they will trade him. This front office doesn't care about that in the least. 

I am as down on the franchise as I've been since contraction. Nothing will change until we have a new front office. 

[howeda7]

I'm not mad they didn't sign Correa. I never thought there was more than a 2% chance they would. I'm mad that Boy Genius Falvey got played for a fool and sat on his thumbs while realistic pitching options and guys like Abreu went elsewhere. Now we're going to go into 2023 with a $110 million payroll and a last place team. We'll top off the $%% Sunday by trading Arreaz for a pitcher no better than what we already have. 

All I really want from the 2023 Twins is Falvey and Levine gone at the end of it. Whatever will make that happen, I'm rooting for it. 

[glunn]

3 hours ago, QuinnSwanny said:

Well as a Twins fan it’s always hard to hold out hope they will sign big names or make big trades. However this time we offered him big money. Giants just came out with a ridiculous contract which will come back to haunt them… I do like how he held out however as that money we could have spent on him can now be used on a much needed position. Starting Pitching… Carlos Rodon to the Twins???

Welcome to TD.

[KirbyDome89]

1 hour ago, Aggies7 said:

100%, I don’t get the angst

For me it's disappointment, not angst. I didn't expect Correa back. 

Is there a better use of all the "financial flexibility," constantly endorsed here? It's pretty clear this FO won't commit years or $$ to pitching (happy to eat those words if Rodon signs,) and the position player group is nearly all pre arb or on team friendly deals. Surplus savings aren't applied to later seasons; missing out on Correa isn't a cause for celebration. 

[AlwaysinModeration]

1 hour ago, howeda7 said:

I'm not mad they didn't sign Correa. I never thought there was more than a 2% chance they would. I'm mad that Boy Genius Falvey got played for a fool and sat on his thumbs while realistic pitching options and guys like Abreu went elsewhere. Now we're going to go into 2023 with a $110 million payroll and a last place team. We'll top off the $%% Sunday by trading Arreaz for a pitcher no better than what we already have. 

All I really want from the 2023 Twins is Falvey and Levine gone at the end of it. Whatever will make that happen, I'm rooting for it. 

I’d hate to see what “not mad” looks like!

[Einheri]

Oh, well.
Twins can probably afford Nathan Eovaldi and Elvis Andrus.
Do we want them?

[weitz41]

Disappointing but not a huge surprise. Should be interesting to see how/if they pivot.

On the plus side, there should be plenty of good seats available next season....cheap...

[bloomwcjkl]

Whew. Crisis avoided. 
 

Can you imagine the decline in a 40-42 year old SS. 29 is the start of the decline. 
 

So happy for the Giants. 

[rwilfong86]

Glad it's over, time to see what else is out there and move forward.

[CRF]

Insane money. Our FO/ownership wasn't going to do that. Best of luck to him. NOW...it gets interesting. What will the FO do with Swanson, if they want to pivot to him...and what will they do as far as trades and other FA's? 

[baul0010]

6 hours ago, raindog said:

Right on the money. Their 285 million offer shows that they weren’t serious. 

But, we tried!  Isn't that our war cry.

I wanted Correa back, but no way I want him on that contract.  

[MABB1959]

6 hours ago, Nashvilletwin said:

Yeah, it always felt like that.  I wanted CC a lot, but it’s not like I can forget how worthless he was at the plate when we really needed him. September just felt like garbage time in an NFL game.

Swanson would still be a great pickup.  A Farmer solution feels like a just a placeholder waiting on a good, but risky, bet.

Without CC or Swanson, I’m not sure it makes sense to break the bank on the other Carlos. We need to face facts: we really weren’t that competitive with CC and the lineup we are projecting without him is not an upgrade.  We were realistically in somewhat of a rebuild anyway for the next year or two and now that is even more true.  Rodon will not lead us to the promised land any more than CC would have.

Nope, it’s probably time to implement that time honored small/mid market strategy - build up a young solid core at bargain rates and then splurge a bit when the window looks like it is opening. Sad, but that’s the reality of being a franchise like the Twins in a non-salary cap league.

The problem with the young solid core is that once they have value, we traded them away for more prosects.  Been that way for as long as I can remember.  Buxton is the only value player that came from the Twins system that is of great value and still here.  Seems like Polanco is halfway out the door as well.

Missing E Escobar, E Rosario, Hicks, imagine if we kept Ramos, 

 

[bighat]

I think a major, major problem that pro sports have (especially baseball) is that these contracts are all so unrelatable. Who among us can imagine turning down 35 million dollars (which Correa did when he opted out of his contract this year), let alone 285 million? It just doesn't compute. It's like talking about the distance of Alpha Centauri from earth and then comparing it to the distance of Procyon. The numbers are just too big, it's impossible to wrap your brain around the data. 

Let's put it this way: if Carlos Correa lives until he's 85, he'd have to spend about $20,000 PER DAY in order to use up that 350 million bucks. And that's imagining if he just took a lump sum of cash and put it under his bed - clearly, he's going to have a lot of that money working on his behalf, including investments, property, etc and so it's probably more like 50k or even 100k per day when it's all said and done. It's almost literally impossible to ever spend that kind of money in his lifetime. Like, even if he took the Twins' $285 million contract, the Correa family would be set up for hundreds of years, like the Rockefellers or Vanderbilts. But he took MORE than that. It's just ridiculous. 

I dunno. Maybe it's because it's the holiday season, and I currently volunteer to deliver food and donations to rural immigrant families. There are so many in this country and abroad who face economic peril, or at least economic uncertainty in their lives. And I know that's not Carlos Correa's fault. Or anyone's fault, really. BUT, reading about this deal and thinking about how Correa said "You have to shop at Dior" or whatever it was he said, just makes me feel like I need to take a shower. 

 

 

[MABB1959]

My biggest frustration is they did not go out for other top players while waiting on Correa.  They should have taken a chance on getting a big name + Correa.   Biggest problem is I do not think ANYONE wants to play for the Twins.  There is the money but just as important is a long playoff run and more exciting if it ended up in a WS win.  I hope I am wrong but with the team now if everyone gets healthy still won't get us far.  It is hard to stop being a fan for sure but kind of wish I could

[mikelink45]

I am happy.  Poor Giants - enjoy half of your contract years then complain like the Angels did because you have a big contract holding you down.  I really don't think Correa produces enough to even consider this kind of contract.  Next we will speculate on Rodon, but be ready to play with the team we have.  At our level trades are the only things that actually change the dial.  

Right now we have a nice team, middle of the pack, until some of our players catch fire - Kiriloff matches his potential, Lewis returns and blows us away, Ryan gets an extra pitch and rises to number one... There is always hope.

[Vanimal46]

This isn’t exactly the news I wanted to wake up to. Disappointing, to say the least. These contracts that Boras is negotiating are ruining Major League Baseball. 

[TwinsDr2021]

7 hours ago, Nashvilletwin said:

We were realistically in somewhat of a rebuild anyway for the next year or two and now that is even more true.

If this is your belief this front office should be fired. We weren't promised a rebuild this far into their tenure we were promised sustained success. So after two terrible years under .500 and another one to two, good luck getting butts in the seats at target field next year. I will add this unless they figure out how to get on streaming they are going to end up like the wolves were people have given up being invested and cheer for them to be bad. (Not me but I know many people that actively cheer against the Wolves and I am starting to hear similiar jokes being said about the Twins)

[Doctor Gast]

Not surprised, I would have been more surprised (&elated) if he had signed with us. But we had high hopes that he would, that is what makes it disappointing.

With all the creative contracts that were offered, I still say they should have offered him an inflated contract, loaded with incentives. Where he could max out at $40MM (in any case he'd earn it) and realistic he could earn $35 on the top end of the contract & $25MM at the bottom with a safty net of $20MM if something serious happened. For $400/ 10 yrs.

Then he could save face for taking a realistically lesser contract & keep his & Boras egos inflated like the contract. 

 

 

[Vanimal46]

7 hours ago, ashbury said:

The 13 years is nearly irrelevant. Total contract value is almost always the name of the game, and the Twins come up well short if they offered under $300M with player opt-outs as the sweetener.  The Giants will release Correa well before 13 years and just treat the remaining payments as deferred salary for the good years they actually got.

"They tried," and almost surely knew it wouldn't be close to enough.

Spot on. There are 10-ish teams in the league that can write off the last 3-4 years of these agreements. And that’s what we’re seeing. They get their pick of the free agent stars every year, and the other 20 teams get the leftover scraps.