Don't like our SS situation? What else is there?

[Fire Dan Gladden]

I posted this elsewhere, but with all the noise I think this deserves a topic unto itself:

The Farmer signing is getting a lot of heat, especially if you think he will be our starting SS next year.  So here is my question:

Assuming the Twins do not sign any of the big four FA shortstops on the market (a reasonable expectation even if the Twins make a strong push) what else should they do to address SS?  Personally I think Farmer fits the short-term idea pretty well, but that does not seem to be the general consensus.

No big 4 SS, what else should they do?

[WhenWillWeBeatNY]

20 minutes ago, Fire Dan Gladden said:

I posted this elsewhere, but with all the noise I think this deserves a topic unto itself:

The Farmer signing is getting a lot of heat, especially if you think he will be our starting SS next year.  So here is my question:

Assuming the Twins do not sign any of the big four FA shortstops on the market (a reasonable expectation even if the Twins make a strong push) what else should they do to address SS?  Personally I think Farmer fits the short-term idea pretty well, but that does not seem to be the general consensus.

No big 4 SS, what else should they do?

I believe they have 3 main options here. The first is that like you said they let Farmer play SS. Which I think he would be a fine SS. The issue though is he’s a “fine” SS not someone who is going to lead you to the playoffs.
 

The next option is sign a SS outside the big 4. The only other guy I could see is going for is Jose Iglesias. In my mind he would be a bit of an upgrade over Farmer and more of a veteran presence in the clubhouse. In options 1 and 2 I would just use these guys as fillers until Royce Lewis is healthy. It was a small sample size but he was proving last year he could be a star. 

The 3rd option is give one of the other prospects a chance. Although we haven’t gotten the chance to see him in the majors. Austin Martin has been tearing the fall league. He’s gonna be a big boom or bust guy. Maybe the Twins give him a shot at the beginning of the year. Or they could also do something where they move Polanco to SS (although I hate Polanco’s defense at SS) and play Eduardo Julien who has also been tearing it up in the fall league a chance at 2nd base. 

[Mike Sixel]

I probably roll with Farmer until Lee or Lewis is great. Or, put Polanco there and put Martin at second. 

[DJL44]

They still need another player who can play SS on the roster. Right now if Farmer gets hurt in spring training the opening day SS is probably Austin Martin. At that point you start the process of selling veteran players.

I disagree with pursuing Iglesias, I see him and Farmer as redundant. Most AAA backups are going to be worse than just playing Nick Gordon there. They need to find someone better than Farmer through free agency or by trade. If they miss out on the big 4 they need to be ready to trade for a SS replaced by the big 4.

[Game7-91]

If they think one of Lewis, Lee, or somebody else can take SS later this year, they should be clearing a path for that to happen. If they dont think they have a SS in the wings, then they need to sign one of the Big Boys. The only thing that really matters is what Falvine thinks, because as Falvine thinks, so Falvine does.

[Mike Sixel]

13 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

They still need another player who can play SS on the roster. Right now if Farmer gets hurt in spring training the opening day SS is probably Austin Martin. At that point you start the process of selling veteran players.

I disagree with pursuing Iglesias, I see him and Farmer as redundant. Most AAA backups are going to be worse than just playing Nick Gordon there. They need to find someone better than Farmer through free agency or by trade. If they miss out on the big 4 they need to be ready to trade for a SS replaced by the big 4.

How is Martin being the backup mean you have to punt the season? I don't get that at all.....

[TwinsDr2021]

7 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

How is Martin being the backup mean you have to punt the season? I don't get that at all.....

I would say if Martin is Plan B for anything next year the FO has failed at preparing the Team to win in 23. Martin shouldn't be part of any plan for 23. If he proves his .316 SLG at age 23 in AA was a fluke and takes off and forces the Twins to include him in the Plans then that is a win/win for him and the team. He isn't on the 40 man now and there is ZERO to put him on it until he proves he deserves it. IMO

[Fire Dan Gladden]

I think Martin has a 0% chance of making the team out of spring training, regardless of the SS situation.  He needs to show success at AAA, meaning June at the earliest (barring a cavalcade of injuries).

I agree they need to bring in another middle fielder, preferably one with 3B experience as well.  Not sure how much they would be willing to spend.  A lot depends on what they think of Lewis

[Mike Sixel]

19 minutes ago, Fire Dan Gladden said:

I think Martin has a 0% chance of making the team out of spring training, regardless of the SS situation.  He needs to show success at AAA, meaning June at the earliest (barring a cavalcade of injuries).

I agree they need to bring in another middle fielder, preferably one with 3B experience as well.  Not sure how much they would be willing to spend.  A lot depends on what they think of Lewis

Oh, I agree on this......and I really think he's a LF/CF/2B anyway.....

[Doctor Gast]

If we don't sign Correa, I doubt we can sign any of the other big four, Nor would I want to or any other FA, IMO they're not worth it. My plan B is to trade for one, Adames & even Hoerner won't be cheap and could be complicated to pull off. I like Luis Guilorme, he needs a chance play to more regularly at SS, he seems like a guy when plays more the better he produces both defensively & offensively. He'd be a cheap pick up and platooned with Farmer could be very interesting dou. Also we're pretty shallow at quality  SS & 2B especially to start the season.

Just think of a all LH hitting line up.  Narvaez (C) Kiriloff (1B)  Polanco (2B) Guillorme (SS) Arraez (3B) Gordon (CF)  Larnach (LF)  Kepler (RF) & Wallner (DH). Of course we want Buxton & Miranda in there as much as possible but it's nice to know that we can.

 

[Squirrel]

39 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

Oh, I agree on this......and I really think he's a LF/CF/2B anyway.....

Yeah ... was going to say this ... Martin will likely never be a SS on the Twins roster, maybe no roster; and if he's our back up at SS? Not good

[Vanimal46]

If we strike out on the big 4, my next step is exploring the trade market. I will likely try to find the best possible glove first SS. Then spend the budget on the best bats available in the OF/1B/DH. 

Losing Correa hurts in a multitude of ways. The obvious need of someone who can play SS at a high level, and more importantly, a #2 bat in the lineup. We will need significant upgrades on offense to make up for the loss. 

[DJL44]

2 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

How is Martin being the backup mean you have to punt the season? I don't get that at all.....

A team that starts Austin Martin as their opening day SS is not a contender, especially a team that finished 78-84 with Carlos Correa as the SS.

[Mike Sixel]

12 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

A team that starts Austin Martin as their opening day SS is not a contender, especially a team that finished 78-84 with Carlos Correa as the SS.

It sure seems unlikely, but if they add Rodon and Abreu and Buxton is healthy to start the year, I'm not punting.

Plus, the only veteran left that has any real value is Gray.....Polanco and Kepler just don't have much time left on their deals. So, sure, you could deal Kepler, IMO.....

[DJL44]

3 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

the only veteran left that has any real value is Gray

Gray, Mahle, Maeda and Pagan are all on expiring contracts. Kepler, Thielbar, Lopez, Farmer and Polanco would be veteran trade bait. If this team is below .500 at the deadline I expect them to move nearly all of those veterans.

[Mike Sixel]

6 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

Gray, Mahle, Maeda and Pagan are all on expiring contracts. Kepler, Thielbar, Lopez, Farmer and Polanco would be veteran trade bait. If this team is below .500 at the deadline I expect them to move nearly all of those veterans.

Which of those have any value.... And this was in response to punting the season if they don't get a SS....

[DJL44]

8 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

Which of those have any value.... And this was in response to punting the season if they don't get a SS....

Maeda is dirt cheap. If he bounces back to 2020 form he will be in demand. Mahle was in demand at the previous trade deadline. Thielbar and Lopez will be easy to move.

[DocBauer]

The OP is simple! Rumor has it...sorry to Brock's wanting rumors listed elsewhere since there is no link to share/report at this time...that the Twins have at least started with an offer far and above what most expected, meaning something in the high $200M range. But I refuse to daly around rumors at this point.

The OP is very clear. What else?

Do the Twins gravitate to another of the top 4? But a stated in the OP, if higher spending profile teams just jump in and the Twins are just left empty handed, what do they do?

THAT'S the question being asked. 

I liked Iglesias. No need with Farmer added. He's become the temp SS. A cheap utility player should be added so we don't have to move Polanco or trust only in Gordon.

Farmer gives us a floor. Period. He doesn't mean nobody else is added. 

But what if he's IT at SS because we strike out on the big 4? Are we destitute? Or do we switch gears and end up with Rodon and a solid BP addition, and a solid catcher addition, and a solid OF addition.

There's a lot of directions to go if we miss out on the BIG 4. All that's being asked is, is there anyone better than Farmer as a fill in? I'm not sure there is.

[Game7-91]

7 hours ago, Fire Dan Gladden said:

A lot depends on what they think of Lewis

Yes it sure does, and others in the pipeline. If they sign Correa dominos will start to fall....who stays/who goes of Miranda, Polanco, Arraez, Kiriloff, Lewis, Lee, Martin, Miller, Joulien?

[dxpavelka]

7 hours ago, Doctor Gast said:

If we don't sign Correa, I doubt we can sign any of the other big four, Nor would I want to or any other FA, IMO they're not worth it. My plan B is to trade for one, Adames & even Hoerner won't be cheap and could be complicated to pull off. I like Luis Guilorme, he needs a chance play to more regularly at SS, he seems like a guy when plays more the better he produces both defensively & offensively. He'd be a cheap pick up and platooned with Farmer could be very interesting dou. Also we're pretty shallow at quality  SS & 2B especially to start the season.

Just think of a all LH hitting line up.  Narvaez (C) Kiriloff (1B)  Polanco (2B) Guillorme (SS) Arraez (3B) Gordon (CF)  Larnach (LF)  Kepler (RF) & Wallner (DH). Of course we want Buxton & Miranda in there as much as possible but it's nice to know that we can.

 

Your lefty hitting lineup idea is cute but you better have a plan B by the time Kiriloff & Larnach go on the IL in Mid-April.

[jorgenswest]

7 hours ago, Doctor Gast said:

If we don't sign Correa, I doubt we can sign any of the other big four, Nor would I want to or any other FA, IMO they're not worth it. My plan B is to trade for one, Adames & even Hoerner won't be cheap and could be complicated to pull off. I like Luis Guilorme, he needs a chance play to more regularly at SS, he seems like a guy when plays more the better he produces both defensively & offensively. He'd be a cheap pick up and platooned with Farmer could be very interesting dou. Also we're pretty shallow at quality  SS & 2B especially to start the season.

Just think of a all LH hitting line up.  Narvaez (C) Kiriloff (1B)  Polanco (2B) Guillorme (SS) Arraez (3B) Gordon (CF)  Larnach (LF)  Kepler (RF) & Wallner (DH). Of course we want Buxton & Miranda in there as much as possible but it's nice to know that we can.

 

I like Guillorme too. Closest BTV depending on the direction the Mets would want to go would be…

• Paddack (established player and arm for second half)
• Woods-Richardson (near ready minor leaguer)
• Raya (off the 40 prospect)
• Canterino (injury stash)

I am not sure any of those make it feel like a cheap pick up but it points out Guillorme’s value. Which if any of these would you send to the Mets even up for Guillorme?

Kepler is near the same value also. As much as I would prefer to part with Kepler I think the Mets would have the resources to get someone better in free agency if they have the need for an outfielder.  All teams can use pitching so I think they are a better trade fit if they are serious about Guillorme.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

15 hours ago, Fire Dan Gladden said:

I think Martin has a 0% chance of making the team out of spring training, regardless of the SS situation.  He needs to show success at AAA, meaning June at the earliest (barring a cavalcade of injuries).

I agree they need to bring in another middle fielder, preferably one with 3B experience as well.  Not sure how much they would be willing to spend.  A lot depends on what they think of Lewis

And Lewis’ health. He tore his ACL in June, there’s a chance we don’t see him in the bigs until ‘24.

Carrying over from the other thread, if they don’t sign one of the big four, I think tier 2, Iglesias and Andrus would be a break even or step up from Farmer. Farmer could then be the valuable Super-duper utility player they need.

below tier 2, I’d sign a utility infielder who can play short. Lee and Martin aren’t ready opening day, Nick Gordon is not a SS.

that plan leaves a huge hole in a very bad hitting lineup. From there I think they’d to sign an outfielder and a DH or 1B. Judge or Nimmo would be great, but more realistically Mitch Haniger and Josh Bell or Jose Abreu

[TopGunn#22]

This is certainly a topic worth further discussion.  I think they are serious about signing Correa.  Failing that, I like Bogaerts as the most affordable and best option to add another substantial piece.  Failing that, Farmer is O.K. but certainly not great.  I'd consider a trade for Mondesi or Kiner-Falefa.  Neither is prohibitively expensive.  Both offer additional positional versatility that always comes in handy.  The Dodgers have proven you can never have too many Swiss Army Knives.  Guys like Farmer, Mondesi and Kiner-Falefa are temporary enough that you can build a bridge to Lewis or Lee.  

[Doctor Gast]

8 hours ago, jorgenswest said:

I like Guillorme too. Closest BTV depending on the direction the Mets would want to go would be…

• Paddack (established player and arm for second half)
• Woods-Richardson (near ready minor leaguer)
• Raya (off the 40 prospect)
• Canterino (injury stash)

I am not sure any of those make it feel like a cheap pick up but it points out Guillorme’s value. Which if any of these would you send to the Mets even up for Guillorme?

Kepler is near the same value also. As much as I would prefer to part with Kepler I think the Mets would have the resources to get someone better in free agency if they have the need for an outfielder.  All teams can use pitching so I think they are a better trade fit if they are serious about Guillorme.

I'd trade any of those for Guillorme except SWR (I'd prefer to hold onto him) or a combination a couple of lessor value players. Whatever tickles  NYM  fancy, Reds liked Legumina.

[Fire Dan Gladden]

2 hours ago, Richie the Rally Goat said:

below tier 2, I’d sign a utility infielder who can play short. Lee and Martin aren’t ready opening day, Nick Gordon is not a SS.

This... any expectation of one of these being a productive shortstop in in 2023 is extremely optimistic.

I have concerns about Nick Gordon maintaining this level of play.  If he can, than he could provide that super-utility role.

Looking at the big picture, I think the Twins are hoping to sign Correa.  In lieu of that, I believe the are ready to run with Farmer until they have a better read on Lewis and/or Lee.  The other dominos falling from not signing Correa are runs at offensive help in the corners. Names that will probably pop up include Haniger, Gallo, Abreu, Brantley, Turner

(FWIW, in the ESPN article this morning, many of the MLB pundits have Correa re-signing with the Twins,  Where there is smoke, there is typically fire.  Stay tuned...)

[mnfireman]

2 hours ago, Richie the Rally Goat said:

below tier 2, I’d sign a utility infielder who can play short. Lee and Martin aren’t ready opening day, Nick Gordon is not a SS.

 

They did, Kyle Farmer. There's like 4 threads about it.

[Mike Sixel]

12 hours ago, DJL44 said:

Maeda is dirt cheap. If he bo back to 2020 form he will be in demand. Mahle was in demand at the previous trade deadline. Thielbar and Lopez will be easy to move.

Again, this was in response to before the season starts. 

[tarheeltwinsfan]

If the Twins don't sign a big 4 SS, then try to trade for a SS with the teams who did sign the big 4 SS's .