Article: Three-Bagger: Pelfrey's Progress, Plouffe's Paradox & Rebounds

[Nick Nelson]

You can view the page at http://twinsdaily.com/content.php?r=1670-Three-Bagger-Pelfrey-s-Progress-Plouffe-s-Paradox-Rebounds

[jun]

Lost to the NY Mets twice and the 3rd game postphoned. Winless there as well. Trying hard not to be swept is nothing to be proud of.

[cmathewson]

The velocity sure helps, but the bigger thing was location. When you throw sinkers down, they sink. When you throw them up, they flatten out. He got on top of ball well and finished his pitches better in this start than he had in previous starts. He basically did everything Parker told him to do. Go figure.

 

I saw the replay of the tag. He definitely tagged him on the hand. The tag was obscured by dirt. But in those situations, the ump will give the play to the defensive team 9 out of 10 times. He could have held the tag longer, but the bigger issue was with the ump on that call.

[Guest USAFChief]

You're making way too much of the missed tag, Nick, if it was missed. It was the kind of play infielders make all the time, umpires rarely call, and definitely not "flashiness and inattention to detail." I doubt Gardenhire is concerned about a play like that.

[Larsbars08]

You're making way too much of the missed tag, Nick, if it was missed. It was the kind of play infielders make all the time, umpires rarely call, and definitely not "flashiness and inattention to detail." I doubt Gardenhire is concerned about a play like that.

 

By itself, I would agree with you. But at this point it's a pattern. I doubt this is the straw that breaks the camel's back, but I imagine that it's starting to pile up for Gardy.

[70charger]

 

I saw the replay of the tag. He definitely tagged him on the hand. The tag was obscured by dirt. But in those situations, the ump will give the play to the defensive team 9 out of 10 times. He could have held the tag longer, but the bigger issue was with the ump on that call.

 

This is true. They got it wrong. I understand why: it's a hard thing to see and I have the benefit of replay, but he got that tag on him.

[Seth Stohs]

Pelfrey was actually really good in his previous start (if I recall, it was five 0 or 1 innings) before giving up the long home run to Fielder, which happens. Definitely saw signs in that previous start that he was getting there. The Sunday start was very impressive and hopefully can now be continued and consistent.

 

As for the Plouffe tag at third, I thought that he tagged him too, on the way up, but as someone said, the dirt hid it. It's definitely a play that goes to the defense most of the time, and Plouffe did exactly what he could do on the play. That is certainly not a play that will make Gardenhire more upset at Plouffe's defense. As was said, that type of play happens frequently, but generally the ump just goes with the out.

[Jeff A]

Lost to the NY Mets twice and the 3rd game postphoned. Winless there as well. Trying hard not to be swept is nothing to be proud of.

 

Well, it's better than NOT trying hard not to be swept.

[Nick Nelson]

I don't really agree with you guys on the tag. Even if the umpire missed the call, there's no chance it happens if Plouffe holds his glove down until it makes solid contact with the runner (which it clearly did not, it might have glanced his fingers). What is the benefit to the quick swipe? It's not a fundamentally sound play.

[ashbury]

> The dinger was Plouffe's fourth this season, placing him second on the team behind Josh Willingham.

 

There are other ways to express the futility one month into what was supposed to be a pretty good offense this season, but this is about as good as any.

[Winston Smith]

"But at the same time the Twins can't afford to take the slugger's potent bat out of the lineup."

 

Did you really call him a slugger with a potent bat? I'd like your definition of both slugger and potent bat.

[Nick Nelson]

"But at the same time the Twins can't afford to take the slugger's potent bat out of the lineup."

 

Did you really call him a slugger with a potent bat? I'd like your definition of both slugger and potent bat.

 

He hit 24 homers in 120 games last year and he's currently slugging .463. I'd like to hear how that description does not fit him, particularly relative to the rest of this team.

[Winston Smith]

He hit 24 homers in 120 games last year and he's currently slugging .463. I'd like to hear how that description does not fit him, particularly relative to the rest of this team.

 

FanGraph has him rated 15 out or 22 rated 3b. His RISP, .150/.217/.300 he's had 50 runners on base and driven in 3, maybe not so potent. Relative to the team he may be a potent slugger but not sure about league overall.

However they likely have little or no other better options.

 

 

I'll take the "not" as a scolding.

[Brock Beauchamp]

FanGraph has him rated 15 out or 22 rated 3b. His RISP, .150/.217/.300 he's had 50 runners on base and driven in 3, maybe not so potent. Relative to the team he may be a potent slugger but not sure about league overall.

However they likely have little or no other better options.

 

 

I'll take the "not" as a scolding.

 

Ugh. RISP stats in early May.

 

Sooner or later, the law of averages will factor in and Plouffe will begin to start getting those hits with runners on base. History has shown it to be the case nearly 100% of the time.

[cmathewson]

FanGraph has him rated 15 out or 22 rated 3b. His RISP, .150/.217/.300 he's had 50 runners on base and driven in 3, maybe not so potent. Relative to the team he may be a potent slugger but not sure about league overall.

However they likely have little or no other better options.

 

 

I'll take the "not" as a scolding.

 

Jamey Carroll with RISP in 2013: [TABLE=class: sortable stats_table]

[TD=align: right].429

[/TD]

[TD=align: right].556[/TD]

[TD=align: right].429[/TD]

[TD=align: right].984

[/TD]

[/TABLE]

 

Thus, he should be the starting third baseman.

 

What's that you say? He's only had 9 plate appearances with runners in scoring position? So?

[Winston Smith]

50 runners and 3 driven in? Put all the lipstick on it you want that isn't good! Did I miss the part where I said Carroll should be the 3b?

[Brock Beauchamp]

50 runners and 3 driven in? Put all the lipstick on it you want that isn't good!

 

More importantly, it doesn't matter one bit going forward.

 

What matters is if Plouffe is hitting the ball or not. And he has been doing that recently.

[Nick Nelson]

FanGraph has him rated 15 out or 22 rated 3b. His RISP, .150/.217/.300 he's had 50 runners on base and driven in 3, maybe not so potent. Relative to the team he may be a potent slugger but not sure about league overall.

However they likely have little or no other better options.

 

Unless the rest of the league's third basemen are available for Gardenhire to write into his lineup on a nightly basis, I fail to see the relevance. We're talking about Plouffe's value to the Twins, and he's clearly one of the most potent sluggers on the team.

 

Your final sentence is accurate, and makes me wonder what exactly is your point of contention here.

[Badsmerf]

The 'Ole RISP argument. This **** never gets old. FML.

[Thrylos]

Willingham's defense makes Plouffe look like a gold glover. If there are concerns voiced about Plouffe's defense, there should be about Willingham's as well. Plouffe is not the worst fielding player in this team.

 

And if Gardenhire has issues with Plouffe's defense at third, remember who was he Twins' manager when they were trotting Brian Buscher there, in a competing team nevertheless, and whether Butcher was thrown under the bus by him as much as Plouffe has been.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Willingham's defense makes Plouffe look like a gold glover. If there are concerns voiced about Plouffe's defense, there should be about Willingham's as well. Plouffe is not the worst fielding player in this team.

 

A fair assessment, though Plouffe has far more opportunities to bungle plays on a nightly basis than Willingham, whose nights often consist of "field ball rolling to me" or "catch ball falling at me" three or four times a game.

[Guest USAFChief]

Willingham's defense makes Plouffe look like a gold glover. If there are concerns voiced about Plouffe's defense, there should be about Willingham's as well. Plouffe is not the worst fielding player in this team.

 

And if Gardenhire has issues with Plouffe's defense at third, remember who was he Twins' manager when they were trotting Brian Buscher there, in a competing team nevertheless, and whether Butcher was thrown under the bus by him as much as Plouffe has been.

More to the point, IMO...did Gardy call out Willingham in the paper (or whoever was at fault) for the baserunning folly that cost the Twins a minimum of one run the other day in Cleveland? IMO, that's a bigger error than a 3rd baseman playing back with 2 outs, at minimum it's as avoidable. If he did say something, I haven't seen it.

[Nick Nelson]

More to the point, IMO...did Gardy call out Willingham in the paper (or whoever was at fault) for the baserunning folly that cost the Twins a minimum of one run the other day in Cleveland? IMO, that's a bigger error than a 3rd baseman playing back with 2 outs, at minimum it's as avoidable. If he did say something, I haven't seen it.

 

Gardy is definitely tougher on Plouffe than most of the players. There's no question that the Twins are trying to light a fire under his ass, and we can see evidence of that dating back to TR's very public pronouncements about wanting to find competition at third (and inexplicably not SS/2B) during the offseason.

 

I get the sense that they see too much Valencia in him and want to steer him away from that path. Whether they're taking the right approach is unclear, but I don't think we should assume it's wrong.

[BHtwins]

The making an example of and "lighting a fire under" a player from Gardy is very tiresome. He applies this standard so inconsistently it just gets frustrating.

 

Plouffe is fine defensively and is is potentially the best offensive 3rd basement the Twins have had since Koskie. Just leave him alone and let him play.

[jorgenswest]

Plouffe has a chance to be a good regular 3B. It is worth investing the games at 3B. He still has very little professional experience at the position. If he ranks 15th offensively at the end of the year that isn't given 30 teams. His age and point his career offer hope he will go up in rankings next year.

 

As for fundamental mistakes, it does appear that the Twins have little patience with fundamental mistakes. Sometimes it seems like they would prefer players with no range or skill at the position as long as they don't make fundamental mistakes. On the other hand, it's the writers asking Gardenhire about the fundamental mistakes. Why ask everyday about the few of the chronically inept fielders they put out there? It wouldn't be news.

[Thrylos]

More to the point, IMO...did Gardy call out Willingham in the paper (or whoever was at fault) for the baserunning folly that cost the Twins a minimum of one run the other day in Cleveland? IMO, that's a bigger error than a 3rd baseman playing back with 2 outs, at minimum it's as avoidable. If he did say something, I haven't seen it.

 

That one was either on Willingham who did not see Vavra stop singing Mauer at 3rd or at Vavra who pulled the aforementioned stop sign too late for Willingham to stop. Regardless, Gardy is not about to throw any of them under the bus.

Agreed, that was more awful than what Plouffe did.

[jokin]

That one was either on Willingham who did not see Vavra stop singing Mauer at 3rd or at Vavra who pulled the aforementioned stop sign too late for Willingham to stop. Regardless, Gardy is not about to throw any of them under the bus.

Agreed, that was more awful than what Plouffe did.

 

Just more of the same-old, same old, as back when Punto, Cuddyer, Kubel, Young, et al, would repeatedly bungle in the field, at the plate, and/or on the basepaths, and all Gardy seemed to note in postgame was the "unacceptable" missed cutoff, missed sign, missed tag, et al, of some rookie or AAAA player.

 

Lots of fires to light, not enough matches