Casey at the Bat - where is Mudville.

[mikelink45]

Many towns have vied for the location of the famous Casey at Bat, but two have really gotten serious in this quest.  The epic poem was written by Ernest Lawrence Thayer who published it in the San Francisco Examiner in 1888. 

The location in the poem is called Mudville, a name that had been attached to Stockton California during the Gold Rush.

The outlook wasn't brilliant for the Mudville nine that day:
The score stood four to two, with but one inning more to play,

But this could not end this quickly or this cleanly, for Holliston, Massachusetts has a neighborhood called Mudville and they say that the poem took place there.

Thayer was from Massachusetts and graduated from Harvard so the Holliston claim is based on Thayer’s origins as much as their neighborhood. 

Stockton has been a charter member of the California League since 1941 and called its team the Mudville Nine for two seasons.  Today Visalia will don the uniforms of the Mudville nine for a special promotion night.

Thayer was expected to go into his father’s businesses when he graduated in 1885, but he was a college grad and ready to see the country.  His classmate, William Randolph Hearst, had just been given a paper in San Francisco – Thayer had a destination.

His last column before returning to Massachusetts was Casey at the Bat – the title given to it by the newspaper editor and the poem was attributed to a fictional Phin. Thayer and the paper walked away – no copyright – no expectations.  It took a comedian by the name of DeWolf Hopper to start performing it and giving it recognition.

Not to confuse the story, but San Diego chose to name the area around Petco Park – Mudville Flats – a recent choice and not a claim to the poems origin.

So we are left with the debate between Holliston because Thayer was from a town near there and they have a neighborhood of Mudville.  Stockton has the claim because the poem was published near to them, and they were originally called Mudville.

Stockton has additional proof - in the poem three players who did play on the Stockton team were mentioned.

And then when Cooney died at first, and Barrows did the same,
A pall-like silence fell upon the patrons of the game.

And

But Flynn preceded Casey, as did also Jimmy Blake,
And the former was a hoodoo, while the latter was a cake;
So upon that stricken multitude grim melancholy sat,
For there seemed but little chance of Casey getting to the bat.

But Flynn let drive a single, to the wonderment of all,
And Blake, the much despisèd, tore the cover off the ball;
And when the dust had lifted, and men saw what had occurred,
There was Jimmy safe at second and Flynn a-hugging third.

It was a challenge, a matter of honor so Stockton chose to settle this with a baseball game.  This is the letter that Stockton sent:

"Dear Mr. Fitzgerald,

"I send you greetings from across  the continent (writes John Shannahan, captain of the Mudville Base Ball Club. ... I must inform you that your article (in which I wrote, using diplomatic language, that they were crazy drew our considerable attention.

"The implication that Casey's Mudville was someplace other than our fair community, while totally unfounded, threatened the values and sense of honor that many of us have held since childhood. ...

"We believe that a ball game played, Mudville against Mudville, would best celebrate the spirit of the game we love, and the hero we share."

In the exchange they agreed to an annual game in October alternating between the towns.  No professionals were allowed, and the players had to be 30 and older.

"The final score was 10-4 in favor of Stockton," Blair said. " … But guess what? Our team, Mudville, lost, just as it’s supposed to be. Bingo."

Thayer in a later interview said, "Actually, none of the people who claim to be Casey or the model for Casey are the right ones," he said. "It was actually a guy named Daniel Casey who I went to high school with who threatened to beat me up once because I made fun of him in the school newspaper."

Oh, somewhere in this favoured land the sun is shining bright,
The band is playing somewhere, and somewhere hearts are light;
And somewhere men are laughing, and somewhere children shout,
But there is no joy in Mudville—mighty Casey has struck out.

[Game7-91]

Fun material, thanks Mike. Bullies beware, you could be immortalized someday??

[Fire Dan Gladden]

And that is the rest of the story.

Thanks Mike!

[Greglw3]

Mudville is located at the location of the Toledo MudHens stadium in the 1930s. This was at Swain field where the conditions were apparently frequently muddy thus muddying up the Hens that hung out there. 

Don’t hold me to that. I just came up with this yarn because I’m from Toledo and it sounds plausible. The second sentence, 1st paragraph and the last paagraph are, in fact, true. 

Lastly, Casey Stengel was a player-manager for the Toledo Mud Hens from 1926-1931.

[mikelink45]

57 minutes ago, Greglw3 said:

Mudville is located at the location of the Toledo MudHens stadium in the 1930s. This was at Swain field where the conditions were apparently frequently muddy thus muddying up the Hens that hung out there. 

Don’t hold me to that. I just came up with this yarn because I’m from Toledo and it sounds plausible. The second sentence, 1st paragraph and the last paagraph are, in fact, true. 

Lastly, Casey Stengel was a player-manager for the Toledo Mud Hens from 1926-1931.

The only problem is that the poem was written before the Mudhens came into existence.  They are old - 1902, but the epic poem is 1888.

[IndianaTwin]

A few years ago, I visited Holliston, Mass., and recorded a rendition of “Casey at the Bat” at their statue: 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8LYgOURYpYM&t=11s

 

[mikelink45]

8 hours ago, IndianaTwin said:

A few years ago, I visited Holliston, Mass., and recorded a rendition of “Casey at the Bat” at their statue: 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8LYgOURYpYM&t=11s

 

Now you need to repeat the performance in Stockton.

[Greglw3]

17 hours ago, mikelink45 said:

The only problem is that the poem was written before the Mudhens came into existence.  They are old - 1902, but the epic poem is 1888.

Perhaps a disqualifier! :-)

[Nine of twelve]

I have never thought that Mudville was intended to be a real place. I still don't. I think it was just a name (that would never be given to a real town) that was well-chosen by the poet to reflect the mood of the team and its fans after experiencing the anticipation of a come-from-behind victory that turns into the disappointment of a loss.

[ashbury]

A lot of the material in the OP appears to be from an article by Steve Wolf in the Hall Of Fame's Fall 2022 issue of "Memories and Dreams", titled "Versus Verse."

I used to live two towns over from Holliston MA, and I happen to have a friend who lives in Mudville itself.  Not only that, but she is an active historian, both in the Holliston Historical Society and in SABR.  She was one of the sources the author of the article went to.  I checked in with her, and she mentions that she likes the part about Holliston being the true model for the poem because they lost the game against Stockton.  She likes to keep the rivalry alive, though, rather than reach any firm conclusion.

[ashbury]

On 11/12/2022 at 9:05 PM, IndianaTwin said:

A few years ago, I visited Holliston, Mass., and recorded a rendition of “Casey at the Bat” at their statue: 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8LYgOURYpYM&t=11s

Well performed, good sir.