We can right a previous wrong for the cost of a waiver claim…

[Vanimal46]

 

[lecroy24fan]

I wouldn't at this point. His velocity has been way down since coming back from surgery.

[Paul Walerius]

3 hours ago, lecroy24fan said:

I wouldn't at this point. His velocity has been way down since coming back from surgery.

Seems like a Twins type of move then.

[ashbury]

I remembered him as a Rule-5 loss, but looked him up and it was a trade to the Marlins (who flipped him to Tampa less than a year later), for a prospect who didn't pan out.  That trade occurred when he was 28 and still hadn't cracked the majors.  Now he's 32 and not doing well at AAA.  He's a local Minnesotan, but I don't see that as making him worth a roster spot.  Although, with open 40-man spots I guess we could claim him, put him on waivers again in a week, and let him rot in our minor league system instead of Tampa's.  Yay?

[darin617]

  Wait and if he doesn't get claimed sign him to a minor league contract. Tampa did their usual and burnt out and young arm.

[weitz41]

I read something about Tampa having a big roster crunch with the rule 5 draft coming up. I think waiting it out and a minor league deal make the most sense. There will likely be guys with more upside available soon. Maybe we can find ourselves another Ryan Pressly. ??

[mac098]

10 hours ago, darin617 said:

  Wait and if he doesn't get claimed sign him to a minor league contract. Tampa did their usual and burnt out and young arm.

The guy ain't young anymore. He's 32. In terms of MLB experience, yes he is young, but he didn't break into the Majors until he was 28 and has struggled since TB made the WS in the shortened season. Also, Anderson is a broken player looking to get in somewhere that'll take him for a low cost-high reward. MN is that place. We always love the comeback/feel-good stories. But this guy isn't the guy right now.

[jorgenswest]

The Twins could have had both Pressly and Anderson in that 2019 bullpen. How many wins would they have been worth over Parker and Dyson?

It isn’t 2019 and I don’t think it is wise to sign anyone based on a season three years ago. He hasn’t been healthy for two years and maybe the Twins saw future arm trouble coming when they let him go. I really wish they could have that 2019 season though.

 

[Vanimal46]

Nick Anderson cleared waivers and elected free agency. It’ll be interesting to see where he lands. Could be a potential high reward pickup if he gains back the lost velocity. 

[MABB1959]

Does anyone else feel like we are on the outside looking in at the beginning and get the left overs later?  Like we watch and watch right now and there will be some lame “we tried” excuse in a few weeks.  

[ashbury]

1 hour ago, MABB1959 said:

Does anyone else feel like we are on the outside looking in at the beginning and get the left overs later?  Like we watch and watch right now and there will be some lame “we tried” excuse in a few weeks.  

If we get a "we tried" excuse regarding a failed attempt to sign Nick Anderson, something has gone very, very weird with the universe.

[Parfigliano]

21 hours ago, Paul Walerius said:

Seems like a Twins type of move then.

So sad and funny at the same time

[Game7-91]

Brewers cut Boxberger, who is similar in style but preferable to Anderson overall imho. These guys will be waiting into Jan/Feb, if they get a MLB contract. If we do sign a "take a flyer" guy, Boxberger might be interesting. But only if there is a substantial BP addition or two b4 that.

[dxpavelka]

On 11/9/2022 at 9:42 PM, ashbury said:

I remembered him as a Rule-5 loss, but looked him up and it was a trade to the Marlins (who flipped him to Tampa less than a year later), for a prospect who didn't pan out.  That trade occurred when he was 28 and still hadn't cracked the majors.  Now he's 32 and not doing well at AAA.  He's a local Minnesotan, but I don't see that as making him worth a roster spot.  Although, with open 40-man spots I guess we could claim him, put him on waivers again in a week, and let him rot in our minor league system instead of Tampa's.  Yay?

Guys who don't make the bigs until 28 typically don't last much past 32.  Obvious that Tampa sees that.  Nothing much to see here.

[Riverbrian]

I understood what Vanimal meant with the title of his post. Subsequent comments are like nobody remembers 2018. ?

I believe everyone makes mistakes and I believe our front office is headed in the right direction. I remain supportive of them... however... Nick Anderson was this regimes biggest (insert favorite swear word) mistake this front office has ever made. 

2018... the Twins were out of contention.

Nick Anderson was striking out batters as a 27 year old in Rochester. The Twins would have to make a decision on if Nick would be added to the 40 man roster during the off-season. They left him in the minors and then traded him to the Marlins for a low level prospect so they wouldn't lose him for nothing or need to use a roster spot on him. 

I'll mention again... The Twins were out of contention. 

The Twins were so out of contention that they traded Ryan Pressly.

Nick Anderson could have been called up at this point. The Front office signed 38 year old Matt Belisle instead and gave him a 40 and 25 man roster spot. Matt Belisle threw 23 innings and produced a 9.13 ERA and these were the last major league innings that Belisle would throw.  

Nick Anderson went on to strike out batters with the Marlins which interested the Rays as the Rays gave up their 4th ranked prospect to acquire him at the 2019 trade deadline.

Lets us compare what we got for Nick Anderson to what the Marlins got for Nick Anderson. Brian Schales compared to Rays 4th ranked prospect Jesus Sanchez.

Nick Anderson was in our system... Our Front Office, our Scouts, our Coaches should have known him like the back of their hand.  They gave him and 6 years of control away for nothing and instead signed the last 23 innings from a career so-so 38 year old during a year when they were out of contention.

I support the Front office but Nick Anderson should tell everyone that the hard decisions are indeed hard decisions.

Kyle Garlick only being allowed to face left-handers... the people deciding that are the same people who couldn't see Nick Anderson.

Max Kepler... multi-year deal... everyday right fielder? The same people who signed Kepler are the same people who couldn't see Nick Anderson right in front of them. We can't assume the front office knows, the scouts know, the coaches know.  

That isn't a slam against them... All front offices make these type of mistakes but... wow... What an incredible unnecessary miss. 

It should be us... the Twins... who are currently designating him for assignment. ?

[Brandon]

On 11/9/2022 at 7:42 PM, ashbury said:

I remembered him as a Rule-5 loss, but looked him up and it was a trade to the Marlins (who flipped him to Tampa less than a year later), for a prospect who didn't pan out.  That trade occurred when he was 28 and still hadn't cracked the majors.  Now he's 32 and not doing well at AAA.  He's a local Minnesotan, but I don't see that as making him worth a roster spot.  Although, with open 40-man spots I guess we could claim him, put him on waivers again in a week, and let him rot in our minor league system instead of Tampa's.  Yay?

He was a top relief prospect when he was traded.  Many were upset he wasn’t given a shot here since he was a local guy.  He was awesome for a few seasons.  Injuries may have done him in.  He is arbitration eligible so he would make closer to 1 million if we claim him.  I am not opposed to a claim but not to worried if we don’t either at this point.  

[Rosterman]

Well, Nick is now a free agent. So is Sam Clay, another guy we lost. 

Considering the Twins spend money onb 40 or so folks every winter to stack the minor league rosters, who knows?

Tyler Duffey is out there. Not to mention names like Ryan LaMarre and Tomas Telis. 

[lecroy24fan]

Anderson is signing with the Braves.

[Riverbrian]

On 11/9/2022 at 9:42 PM, ashbury said:

I remembered him as a Rule-5 loss, but looked him up and it was a trade to the Marlins (who flipped him to Tampa less than a year later), for a prospect who didn't pan out.  That trade occurred when he was 28 and still hadn't cracked the majors.  Now he's 32 and not doing well at AAA.  He's a local Minnesotan, but I don't see that as making him worth a roster spot.  Although, with open 40-man spots I guess we could claim him, put him on waivers again in a week, and let him rot in our minor league system instead of Tampa's.  Yay?

He obviously has health issues now. There is no way that the Rays let him go if he doesn't.

However... for two years in 2019 and 2020 (I don't believe I am exaggerating) he was one of the most dominating relievers in the game. In 2019... In my opinion, Josh Hader was #1... Nick Anderson was #2. 

Lots of TD people are still upset over the Ryan Pressly trade, yet not that many even noticed the Anderson deal. No matter what anyone thinks of the Ryan Pressly trade or what they think about the players we got in return... we at least got something back for Pressly. Anderson was given away and he was BETTER than Pressly for the next two years and with a full service clock while Pressly had a couple of years before FA. Anderson was better than almost everyone in baseball for the next two years.

Instead, the Twins filled the 2019 bullpen with names like Ryne Harper, Blake Parker, Morin, Hildenberger, Mejia. Harper and Parker did well I'm not knocking them but they could have had one of the best relievers in baseball at league minimum with 6 years of control but they could not identify him as he warmed up under their noses.   

Look up his stats. Compare them against his peers in 2019 and 2020. 

The modern day equivalent to that Nick Anderson trade would be trading Jhoan Duran in the last off-season due to roster space and Duran having the season he had with us for some other team.   

Today... Nick Anderson is obviously hurt... but for two years... he was not hurt and quite real and spectacular. 

 

[Richie the Rally Goat]

1 hour ago, Riverbrian said:

He obviously has health issues now. There is no way that the Rays let him go if he doesn't.

However... for two years in 2019 and 2020 (I don't believe I am exaggerating) he was one of the most dominating relievers in the game. In 2019... In my opinion, Josh Hader was #1... Nick Anderson was #2. 

Lots of TD people are still upset over the Ryan Pressly trade, yet not that many even noticed the Anderson deal. No matter what anyone thinks of the Ryan Pressly trade or what they think about the players we got in return... we at least got something back for Pressly. Anderson was given away and he was BETTER than Pressly for the next two years and with a full service clock while Pressly had a couple of years before FA. Anderson was better than almost everyone in baseball for the next two years.

Instead, the Twins filled the 2019 bullpen with names like Ryne Harper, Blake Parker, Morin, Hildenberger, Mejia. Harper and Parker did well I'm not knocking them but they could have had one of the best relievers in baseball at league minimum with 6 years of control but they could not identify him as he warmed up under their noses.   

Look up his stats. Compare them against his peers in 2019 and 2020. 

The modern day equivalent to that Nick Anderson trade would be trading Jhoan Duran in the last off-season due to roster space and Duran having the season he had with us for some other team.   

Today... Nick Anderson is obviously hurt... but for two years... he was not hurt and quite real and spectacular. 

 

Absolutely agreed, however if you’re “righting a wrong” history is less important than the future. Yes, that was a failure, but the more important “right” was putting Duran in the bullpen instead of giving him away and signing a second Joe Smith.

The FO apparently learned from their mistake (in this example, I’m sure there’s counterpoints).

as to the waiver claim idea, glad the Twins didn’t do it, they don’t have enough pitching to add more reclamation projects to the roster. It’s already full of reclamation projects that have a shorter timeline to recovery than Anderson.

[Trov]

Pretty sure Atlanta signed him.  He also was a flash in the pan relief guy.  The Rays got the max out him for about 38 innings.  For some reason everyone thinks he is the one that got away because he was good over 38 innings over 2 season for the Rays.  It was a nice run for him, but he is not like Pressley, who has had long term success. 

[jctwins]

The growing cynicism here reminds me of the glory days of this forum's predecessor, Battle Your Tail Off. That's a good thing.

 

[Riverbrian]

1 hour ago, Richie the Rally Goat said:

Absolutely agreed, however if you’re “righting a wrong” history is less important than the future. Yes, that was a failure, but the more important “right” was putting Duran in the bullpen instead of giving him away and signing a second Joe Smith.

The FO apparently learned from their mistake (in this example, I’m sure there’s counterpoints).

as to the waiver claim idea, glad the Twins didn’t do it, they don’t have enough pitching to add more reclamation projects to the roster. It’s already full of reclamation projects that have a shorter timeline to recovery than Anderson.

I was more focused on the "Wrong" part of the title than the "Righting" part. ?

 

Speaking on the "Righting" part. I can only assume... but logic suggests that there is an issue with him because there is no team in baseball that utilizes it's bullpen more than Tampa and that includes the 2022 Minnesota Twins with the 4 inning starts. 

If there was any probability that he could be what he was or even 75% of what he was in 2019 and 2020, the Rays would find a 40 man spot for him. His availability speaks volumes to me at least. 

Back to the wrong part. Wow... The evaluation system really really missed that one because he would have been a huge help to 2019 and 2020. The fact that they missed that one as badly as they did just puts me in a position where I assume that if they miss that one, they can miss on anyone and it just further cements my opinion that the best way to avoid those mistakes is to let the players make those decisions based on actual performance and letting them keep playing well when they are. 

I have a problem with staying with a struggling player who is supposed to be better. The evaluation suggests that Kepler should be better than Gordon. He wasn't. The Evaluation suggests that Pagan is supposed to be better than Moran. He wasn't.    

 

[ashbury]

On 11/11/2022 at 4:45 AM, Riverbrian said:

I understood what Vanimal meant with the title of his post.

Well good, because that's all he gave us in his initial post: a title and someone else's tweet. (Glad to see Passan's account is Verified, LOL.)

Those of us who reacted to the entire title rather than one part of it might be excused on the grounds of obsessive-compulsive disorder. ?

I was disappointed by the trade at the time, as were most folks here I think.  Stewardship of resources is important to me.

But, "this regimes biggest ding dang mistake this front office has ever made"?  What was actually lost to the Twins?  Two thirds of a season of 3.92 ERA that the Marlins reaped.  After his trade to Tampa, there was one third of the 2019 season, and the truncated 2020 season.  Thirty two and two thirds innings of stellar, outstanding relief work, and Tampa went deep into the post-season both years.  Then his arm went haywire in 2021.  Yes, Anderson can always look back and be proud of his 9.00 ERA across 3 innings and credit for one win and two blown saves in the World Series - not many players plucked from the independent leagues make it that far, certainly not any recent Twins.

We don't know yet what this FO's biggest mistake (so far) is, because there are a couple of candidate moves in the mix from the more recent past that threaten to be whoppers once they play out.  Those that turn out to be whoppers may tie into the "evaluation" system you and I both question, although IMO more on the injury-risk spectrum than talent.

I'll be surprised if 32+ innings of good pitching thrown away turns out to be anything close to their biggest.  Top ten, maybe.

Meanwhile, a waiver claim, on a sore-armed 32-year old, rights no wrongs in my book.  Locks a barn door after the horse is gone, maybe.

 

[Riverbrian]

6 hours ago, ashbury said:

Well good, because that's all he gave us in his initial post: a title and someone else's tweet. (Glad to see Passan's account is Verified, LOL.)

 

But, "this regimes biggest ding dang mistake this front office has ever made"?  What was actually lost to the Twins?  Two thirds of a season of 3.92 ERA that the Marlins reaped.  After his trade to Tampa, there was one third of the 2019 season, and the truncated 2020 season.  Thirty two and two thirds innings of stellar, outstanding relief work, and Tampa went deep into the post-season both years.  Then his arm went haywire in 2021.  Yes, Anderson can always look back and be proud of his 9.00 ERA across 3 innings and credit for one win and two blown saves in the World Series - not many players plucked from the independent leagues make it that far, certainly not any recent Twins.

 

 

Wow... You are big meanie. ?

I'll rank this #1 with the right to adjust if new mistakes trump it in the future. But... you gotta put this #1 for three reasons. 

1. Matt Belisle - They signed Matt Belisle for 1M to mop up a year that they were selling Pressly at the trade deadline to keep Anderson off the roster.

2. He immediately started throwing bullets for Miami at league minimum salary with a full 6 years of control after being traded for basically nothing. 

3. The Twins filled the bullpen in 2019 with nobody close to what he did in the next two seasons. 

When it comes to talent assessment that is as bad as it gets so #1 even when considering how many innings he threw for other squads.  

I wouldn't dismiss that performance in Miami so quickly in order to reduce him down to your 32.2. He hung a zero in 35 out of 45 appearances over 43.2 for the fish.

He coughed up 5 runs to the Braves on May 4th with a sequence of infield single, single, FC (out at home), double (1 run), IBB to load the based, K with the bases loaded, Grand Slam (4 runs).

He also had a 3 earned/zero outs against the Mets on May 17 when Romo allowed two two of his 3 earned runs to score.   

He sucked in two games for Miami and while only allowed 3 inherited runners to score with the Fish. Tampa wasn't too concerned with that 3.92 ERA that cause you to steal innings from him. Rays gave up their 4th best prospect to bring him across alligator alley. 

And Playoffs? In 2019 he made 4 appearances hanging zeroes in 3 of them including striking out 4 in 1.1 IP against the Oakland A's in the Wild Card Game. 

I will grant you your 2020 playoff complaint. His SO% really dropped in the playoffs that year and he was creating base traffic at a mortal level. I'll give you the 2020 playoffs but you got to give him those 45 innings for the Marlins back. ?