Why have the Twins been dumping so much salary and players the last couple years?

[Brodin4Calder]

When Gibson, Meyer, Sano, Buxton..... are all up and on their rookie contracts still if the Twins dont spend atleast 100mil on the payroll it says they dont want to win because they would rather make more money. When all them come up we will have several years while they are making hardly any money to win a WS. This is how the Giants have won it 2 times in 3 years. They had a payroll around 110mil each time because Posey, Bumgarner and some of their other key players were making hardly any money. If you would of totaled up what their payroll was worth it would of been over 170mil last year. The Twins have to do it the same way, when our group of prospects come up we have to also spend money in FA or make some trades for top veterans. WSH is also a good example of this, they have Strasburg and Harper and of few other top players still making hardly any money which is why their payroll is around 100mil not 180mil.

[jokin]

When Gibson, Meyer, Sano, Buxton..... are all up and on their rookie contracts still if the Twins dont spend atleast 100mil on the payroll it says they dont want to win because they would rather make more money. When all them come up we will have several years while they are making hardly any money to win a WS. This is how the Giants have won it 2 times in 3 years. They had a payroll around 110mil each time because Posey, Bumgarner and some of their other key players were making hardly any money. If you would of totaled up what their payroll was worth it would of been over 170mil last year. The Twins have to do it the same way, when our group of prospects come up we have to also spend money in FA or make some trades for top veterans. WSH is also a good example of this, they have Strasburg and Harper and of few other top players still making hardly any money which is why their payroll is around 100mil not 180mil.

 

Uhh, please refer just 4 posts back to Post # 477. The Giants payroll was less than the Twins in 2010, at 97M and it was 132M last year. While the Giants had arb and pre-arb talent on their roster which they did a good job locking up, they continually sprinkled in impact FAs pretty regularly from 2006 until now. They also retained and bought out arb years for their up and comers. And they did it all while holding a long-term, "franchise-wrecking" contract with Barry Zito.

[Kwak]

Way too much is being made of the FA pitchers signed this past off season--yet are ignoring the real point. The Twins refuse to pursue one or two quality starters to keep 4-5 years and thus are constantly trying to sign multiple players to 1 or at most two year contracts. A successful team needs cornerstones. Go back to the end of 2010--the Twins were a winning team and quality players were interested in playing for the Twins. The myopic FO extended Pavano--who was known to be near the end of his tether and was injury-prone throughout his career. The Twins refused to take (the prudent risk) of seeking a younger (and healthier) pitcher for 4-5 years. Therefore, they have to repeat their FA dumpster-diving every year.

[Guest USAFChief]

I think this type of statement is a severely flawed premise at best and irresponsible at worst. There is nothing to suggest that contracts being equal Sanchez would choose the Twins over the Tigers or that Greinke would choose the Twins over the Dodgers, or that the Dodgers would not be willing to up their offer if they had to. They are already dicey contracts as is and the Twins would have to make that much riskier in order to actually bring them in.

 

The post was a hypothetical, made to refute the point that a team has to chose between having two highly paid pitchers or two rookies. That's not necessarily true, and in the specific case of the Twins, clearly untrue. If a team has the payroll space, now and in the future, why in heavens name would a team chose to have only 2 of those pitchers, rather than all four? It makes no sense.

 

But you are correct, I should have worded it as "two contracts like Greinke and Sanchez," not "Greinke and Sanchez," even though I think it's clear that's what I meant.

 

The point still stands--they could and can afford that type of investment--and as for "they wouldn't have signed with the Twins," I would remind you that there is little or no reason to think there is any way the Twins could know that.

[cmathewson]

If 75% meant a front-half starter, a 4th starter, and a worthwhile reliever, well, that might still be optimistic, but I could live with that expectation. But yes, I'm afraid they're expecting even more than that.

 

I don't know what they expect. The 2/1 rules is commonly held in the industry. That goes for every pitcher, prospect or not. Pitching is one of the most unnatural things people can do with their bodies. It makes them extremely prone to injuries.

 

Thing is, through much of the last decade, they haven't had even one prospect of the quality of Gibson. Garza was the closest I can think of. Meyer is a better prospect than Gibson. And May is showing he belongs in that class. Meanwhile Berrios has a chance to be better than all three considering his age. If two of the four work out, that's two more home-grown, front-line pitchers than they've had through much of the last decade.

 

In the past, the Twins were content to tout guys like Baxendale, who could become a useful 4-5 guy. But the Twins have relied on that kind of pitcher for the front of their rotation. Diamond is an example.

 

Upshot: While they're prospects, they have better odds of being quality major leaguers than most--still not as high of odds as veterans like Sanchez. But he will start wearing down in the next few years. Youth has the advantage of better odds of durability. I think you need both in a quality rotation.

[old nurse]

The post was a hypothetical, made to refute the point that a team has to chose between having two highly paid pitchers or two rookies. That's not necessarily true, and in the specific case of the Twins, clearly untrue. If a team has the payroll space, now and in the future, why in heavens name would a team chose to have only 2 of those pitchers, rather than all four? It makes no sense.

 

But you are correct, I should have worded it as "two contracts like Greinke and Sanchez," not "Greinke and Sanchez," even though I think it's clear that's what I meant.

 

The point still stands--they could and can afford that type of investment--and as for "they wouldn't have signed with the Twins," I would remind you that there is little or no reason to think there is any way the Twins could know that.

 

While there is no doubt the Twins can afford a top flight pitcher I have no recollection of a number1/2 type starter in their prime signing with a cellar dwelling team. Ryan has miscalculated the market, and botched it by not signing Buerhle. Their best chances to sign top pitching talent was after 2010. After Cliff Lee Pavano was the second best option, The talent dropped off quickly that year. That is the hard part on finding front of the rotation help

[TheLeviathan]

While there is no doubt the Twins can afford a top flight pitcher I have no recollection of a number1/2 type starter in their prime signing with a cellar dwelling team. Ryan has miscalculated the market, and botched it by not signing Buerhle. Their best chances to sign top pitching talent was after 2010. After Cliff Lee Pavano was the second best option, The talent dropped off quickly that year. That is the hard part on finding front of the rotation help

 

Those are all fine points, it can certainly be a timing issue. The problem is that it just feels convenient. Not your point specifically, but that meme for the organization. I feel

like there will always be new one cloaked in some faux scheme of logic just waiting in a neat package to take the team off the hook again for being cheap.

[cmathewson]

The talent dropped off quickly that year. That is the hard part on finding front of the rotation help

 

This. Not only did the 2012 FA class only feature two 1/2 pitchers (3 if you count Dempster), the guys behind them were full of question marks--all of them. I have some hope for this next offseason, where you could argue you will have a half a dozen 2s and perhaps a few 1s, depending on extensions.

[Guest USAFChief]

While there is no doubt the Twins can afford a top flight pitcher I have no recollection of a number1/2 type starter in their prime signing with a cellar dwelling team. Ryan has miscalculated the market, and botched it by not signing Buerhle. Their best chances to sign top pitching talent was after 2010. After Cliff Lee Pavano was the second best option, The talent dropped off quickly that year. That is the hard part on finding front of the rotation help

I agree, front of the rotation help is hard to find. IMO, all the more reason to pursue it vigorously when it's available and you have the resources and need.

 

Even if you think now isn't the time to pursue it, there's no guarantee it'll be there to bid on in a couple years when hopefully there's more young talent on the major league roster.

[Mike Sixel]

Brock, I can't help myself, I keep coming into this thread.......can you make it so I can't even see the thread anymore? For my own sanity......