More questions than Catcher and SS

[mikelink45]

As I read the articles on TD the angst over SS and C are justified and the answers are not easy or there would not be a need for so many articles, but are we really set at the other positions or are there questions there too?  Here is my list of concerns:

1. Centerfield - is Buxton healthy?  Can he stay healthy?  If not who plays there.  I like Celestino - can he remain on the 26 man?  If not, who?
2. Right field - Kepler has lost his luster.  Good glove, weak bat is not usually a RF descriptor. Who takes his place?  Can Larnach stay healthy? Can Wallner take over?
3. Left field - is this Gordon's position now?  Same question about Larnach as above. Or does Martin or Lewis become the LF if  we sign a SS? Does Kiriloff go there?
4. Third base - is it Urshela or Miranda or Arraez or Julien?  Lots of choices,
5. Second base - Arraez, Polanco, Julien, Martin.  Polanco did not have a good year, his glove is not great, will we trade him?  
6. First Base - Arraez, Miranda, Kiriloff - all good choices, but this infield is like one of those old games where you try to arrange the numbers. 
7. DH - I am guessing this is where Miranda, Arraez, Kiriloff, Larnach, Wallner or a catcher on an off day plays.  Who is best there?  I like Wallner.
8. Comebacks - Lewis when and where?  He has lost multiple years to covid and injuries is he a SS? Did they really fix Kiriloff's wrist? Can Larnach and Buxton stay healthy?
9. Starting pitching - Maeda was Cy young in a short year, injured the next and did not look like a CY Young pitcher when we was in the rotation - will he be a starter or reliever?  Can Mahle be healthy and is he as good as they hoped?  Does Paddock come back strong and is he as good as they hope?  Can Grey stand the quick hook another year?  Which young arm - Winder, Varland, Ober can grab a spot?  Does Ryan improve or does he drop in the rotation order?  What if they do sign another pitcher - what do we do with all of these names - which are BP candidates?  Will they go with a six man rotation again?  Where does RIchardson fit in the plans?
10. Relief pitching - when do we get rid of Pagan?  Is Lopez the pitcher we though we were getting or is he the pitcher of previous years?  Does Alcala come back healthy and fill a need? Does Thielbar have another year in his arm?  Why speculate on Duran - the SP has a lot of choices, but the BP is the most important and his the most important arm out there.  Which SPs go to the pen.  Sands seems to be an arm they want, but what about the rotation losers?  Does Jax continue to improve or does he slide after all the 2022 games?

[Blyleven2011]

It's all up in the air right now with their plan , will it remain the same or will they alter the plan ... 

Will the FO finally realize that being cheap at dumpster diving will get you cheap below average players,  these players are talented but you get what you pay for , competitiveness ...

It's the FO 's job to get us to that winning window of being contenders and not just competitiveness , a player that just had a breakout season but had 4 or 5 years of average stats doesn't necessarily mean he will produce , if choosing a player I want players that have solid stats for their careers and not a player that had 1 good year out of 5  .. 

they need to be better evaluators   and stop hoping for hope ...

That's my plan and I'm sticking to it  ...

[Vanimal46]

There’s a reason why we’ve been a below .500 team the last 2 years. More questions than answers on the 26/40 man rosters. Some of these positions will require some faith and hope because you can’t solve everything in one offseason. 

The only thing you can do is prioritize the needs and address the mission critical ones. How would you prioritize the 10 items?

[DJL44]

1 hour ago, mikelink45 said:

As I read the articles on TD the angst over SS and C are justified and the answers are not easy or there would not be a need for so many articles, but are we really set at the other positions or are there questions there too?  Here is my list of concerns:

1. Centerfield - is Buxton healthy?  Can he stay healthy?  If not who plays there.  I like Celestino - can he remain on the 26 man?  If not, who?
2. Right field - Kepler has lost his luster.  Good glove, weak bat is not usually a RF descriptor. Who takes his place?  Can Larnach stay healthy? Can Wallner take over?
3. Left field - is this Gordon's position now?  Same question about Larnach as above. Or does Martin or Lewis become the LF if  we sign a SS? Does Kiriloff go there?
4. Third base - is it Urshela or Miranda or Arraez or Julien?  Lots of choices,
5. Second base - Arraez, Polanco, Julien, Martin.  Polanco did not have a good year, his glove is not great, will we trade him?  
6. First Base - Arraez, Miranda, Kiriloff - all good choices, but this infield is like one of those old games where you try to arrange the numbers. 
7. DH - I am guessing this is where Miranda, Arraez, Kiriloff, Larnach, Wallner or a catcher on an off day plays.  Who is best there?  I like Wallner.
8. Comebacks - Lewis when and where?  He has lost multiple years to covid and injuries is he a SS? Did they really fix Kiriloff's wrist? Can Larnach and Buxton stay healthy?
9. Starting pitching - Maeda was Cy young in a short year, injured the next and did not look like a CY Young pitcher when we was in the rotation - will he be a starter or reliever?  Can Mahle be healthy and is he as good as they hoped?  Does Paddock come back strong and is he as good as they hope?  Can Grey stand the quick hook another year?  Which young arm - Winder, Varland, Ober can grab a spot?  Does Ryan improve or does he drop in the rotation order?  What if they do sign another pitcher - what do we do with all of these names - which are BP candidates?  Will they go with a six man rotation again?  Where does RIchardson fit in the plans?
10. Relief pitching - when do we get rid of Pagan?  Is Lopez the pitcher we though we were getting or is he the pitcher of previous years?  Does Alcala come back healthy and fill a need? Does Thielbar have another year in his arm?  Why speculate on Duran - the SP has a lot of choices, but the BP is the most important and his the most important arm out there.  Which SPs go to the pen.  Sands seems to be an arm they want, but what about the rotation losers?  Does Jax continue to improve or does he slide after all the 2022 games?

1) No, and he never will be. Celestino, Gordon, Kepler. Later in the season Austin Martin.

2) You'll only see a change if they swap Kepler for a RH hitting outfielder.

3) Larnach's position

4) Urshela this season

5) This is a good question.

6) Positional flexibility means there probably isn't a set infield

7) Off day player

9) Maeda to the bullpen. Mahle should be fine. Paddack comes back late if at all. Can Ober stay healthy for a full season? The rotation is pretty unpredictable - lots of injuries and youth. They will have to be able to quickly determine who is performing  well and they aren't really good at that.

10) Maeda to the bullpen helps a lot here.

[terrydactyls]

1. Bullpen 

2. Shortstop 

3. Bullpen

4. Bullpen

5. Left Field 

6. Bullpen 

Etc.....

 

 

 

[Bigfork Twins Guy]

Lots of questions.  It's the same every year.  I believe that you could ask other club's fans and hear the same types of questions about their rosters.

Many of the answers are intertwined with how each question is individually addressed by the FO.  It'll all work out as it always does.  Give it time and do not lose any sleep over these questions.

[Squirrel]

Most people have answered these question with their payroll blueprints. And most teams have some fluidity to compensate for days off, injuries, family leave, etc. And most teams are at this place this time of year … who plays where. I don’t think there are as many burning questions as you think, personally. Sure we have questions, but I don’t think it’s dire, except for one position. I’m less concerned about catcher as others. I’m most concerned with the BP and SS. But here are some of what I think to your questions. These are all IMO, of course.

1. I don’t know where Buxton’s health is this off season. But he will play as often as possible. My guess is if it’s a day off here and there, Gordon will fill in out there. Celestino will start in AAA and will be the first called up.

2. I agree and hope Kepler gets traded. And I think we will be fine with Larnach out there. It might be a question but it’s one I am not concerned with the answer. Wallner in the wings at AAA.

3. I think we have many options out there. Again, a question, but not one I’m worried about. Kirilloff, Gordon, Larnach (if Kepler remains on the roster), maybe Lewis (later in the season) or Martin.

4. I start the season with Urshela and see if someone is ready to take over mid-season. Lewis, Martin, Lee (but I think that he won’t be here next year). Gordon is there to back up, and very occasionally Arraez or Miranda.

5. I think it will be Polanco. We do have options that will push the question, but I don’t think 2nd base is a worry. In 24 I think it will be someone else.

6. I think 1st base will rotate between the three you mentioned. Do we need just one person who is there all the time? No.

7. This will rotate between players.

8. Kirilloff is my greatest concern of this list. Buxton is Buxton. I think we all know that. I think Lewis will be fine although don’t know when. I’m thinking super utility to start, and eventually 3rd base or outfield. And I find it laughable and pretty disingenuous to put Larnach in the same category as Buxton. I think we really saw what he is capable of and will be fine.

9 and 10. I want to add a starter, like Rodon. And find one or two BP arms. This is why there are so many pitching articles.

And many of the infield questions are because of the SS question and also why there are so many threads and articles discussing it. I think a lot of questions go away or get answered when you get someone in that position that gives it long term stability, not a stop gap until. I want that to be the first resolution because I think it needs to be. My greatest concern isn’t so much all these questions you laid out. I think they are the same questions for every team every year. But if the SS market is held up, it holds up decision making for a lot of other positions, and then we end up with stop gaps and piecing it together.

 

[RpR]

It depends on what quality veterans they pick up during the off season;  Miranda's fielding is poor, needs time in AAA to learn how to field, Wallner will be in AAA, Celestino need to learn in AAA, while Gordon, has moments of Big League skill and moments of What the hell are you doing.

[mnfireman]

8 minutes ago, RpR said:

It depends on what quality veterans they pick up during the off season;  Miranda's fielding is poor, needs time in AAA to learn how to field, Wallner will be in AAA, Celestino need to learn in AAA, while Gordon, has moments of Big League skill and moments of What the hell are you doing.

Miranda is not going back to AAA, he showed he can hit MLB pitching.

Gordon played better in the OF than the IF (surprising since he was drafted as a SS), but is a good enough option at either to be a Super UT type.

Wallner was hyped as an offense first OF/DH who was not highly regarded until this year (behind 2 other lefty hitting corner OF/DH types). 

Celestino has had parts of two seasons to show who he is, and hasn't impressed in either. On either side of the ball (he was touted as above average in the OF).

[Dave The Dastardly]

18 minutes ago, RpR said:

It depends on what quality veterans they pick up during the off season;  Miranda's fielding is poor, needs time in AAA to learn how to field, Wallner will be in AAA, Celestino need to learn in AAA, while Gordon, has moments of Big League skill and moments of What the hell are you doing.

Can't agree on Miranda. He's the best (maybe only?) Twins clutch hitter. He stays on the Big Club and works on fielding between RBIs, though I wouldn't agree that his fielding is "poor" either. It can use some improvement, but so can most of the other Twins position players.

Wallner should open with the Twins for a longer look. That means he plays, Rocco, not sit on the bench. Give him a taste for a month or two and then make the decision if he's "ready" or not.

Gordon has proven he belongs. He's been jerked around from position to position and yet has been another reliable bat. Besides, we'll need him to replace Buxton in center for probably 20-30 games.

Celistino, yeah, AAA.

Quality veterans? No. Time to stop looking for lightning in a bottle. Use the "Pipeline" . Can't keep filling up the minor leagues with "prospects" we never test at the major league level.

[RpR]

7 hours ago, Dave The Dastardly said:

Can't agree on Miranda. He's the best (maybe only?) Twins clutch hitter. He stays on the Big Club and works on fielding between RBIs, though I wouldn't agree that his fielding is "poor" either. It can use some improvement, but so can most of the other Twins position players.

Wallner should open with the Twins for a longer look. That means he plays, Rocco, not sit on the bench. Give him a taste for a month or two and then make the decision if he's "ready" or not,

 

Spring training will determine who washes out and who gets another chance; Wallners has shown he should be in AAA, he was a minus 34 runs saved in the outfield;  Miranda, if he can learn to not be a minus fielder, may or may not be on the team this year he was a minus 12 runs saved at first and no better at Third.

Gordon is a minus runs saved in all positions, not that many errors but like his base running just some absolute dork moves, the return of Go Go Gomez.

[Nashvilletwin]

4 hours ago, mikelink45 said:

As I read the articles on TD the angst over SS and C are justified and the answers are not easy or there would not be a need for so many articles, but are we really set at the other positions or are there questions there too?  Here is my list of concerns:

1. Centerfield - is Buxton healthy?  Can he stay healthy?  If not who plays there.  I like Celestino - can he remain on the 26 man?  If not, who?
2. Right field - Kepler has lost his luster.  Good glove, weak bat is not usually a RF descriptor. Who takes his place?  Can Larnach stay healthy? Can Wallner take over?
3. Left field - is this Gordon's position now?  Same question about Larnach as above. Or does Martin or Lewis become the LF if  we sign a SS? Does Kiriloff go there?
4. Third base - is it Urshela or Miranda or Arraez or Julien?  Lots of choices,
5. Second base - Arraez, Polanco, Julien, Martin.  Polanco did not have a good year, his glove is not great, will we trade him?  
6. First Base - Arraez, Miranda, Kiriloff - all good choices, but this infield is like one of those old games where you try to arrange the numbers. 
7. DH - I am guessing this is where Miranda, Arraez, Kiriloff, Larnach, Wallner or a catcher on an off day plays.  Who is best there?  I like Wallner.
8. Comebacks - Lewis when and where?  He has lost multiple years to covid and injuries is he a SS? Did they really fix Kiriloff's wrist? Can Larnach and Buxton stay healthy?
9. Starting pitching - Maeda was Cy young in a short year, injured the next and did not look like a CY Young pitcher when we was in the rotation - will he be a starter or reliever?  Can Mahle be healthy and is he as good as they hoped?  Does Paddock come back strong and is he as good as they hope?  Can Grey stand the quick hook another year?  Which young arm - Winder, Varland, Ober can grab a spot?  Does Ryan improve or does he drop in the rotation order?  What if they do sign another pitcher - what do we do with all of these names - which are BP candidates?  Will they go with a six man rotation again?  Where does RIchardson fit in the plans?
10. Relief pitching - when do we get rid of Pagan?  Is Lopez the pitcher we though we were getting or is he the pitcher of previous years?  Does Alcala come back healthy and fill a need? Does Thielbar have another year in his arm?  Why speculate on Duran - the SP has a lot of choices, but the BP is the most important and his the most important arm out there.  Which SPs go to the pen.  Sands seems to be an arm they want, but what about the rotation losers?  Does Jax continue to improve or does he slide after all the 2022 games?

Great post - yes, it looks like a busy off-season.  Probably starts with a decision on SS.

My sure-to-be incorrect predictions:

1. Gordon has proven he is the backup CF.

2/3.  Kepler, sadly but rightfully, gets traded. Gordon, Larnach, Kiriloff and Wallner are the two corner outfielders.

4. Urshela is resigned and splits 3B with Miranda.  However, Urshela is moved at the deadline when Lewis and Lee arrive.

5. Polanco starts the year and Julien finishes it.

6. Arraez is your everyday starter.  Miranda is primary backup. Kiriloff not as much.

7. Yes. Whoever isn’t in the field.

8. Lewis returns strong.  Larnach too.  Buxton and Kiriloff struggle to consistently stay on the field (oh how I hate writing that).

9.  Maeda is a starter.  Mahle struggles with his arm health and is a disappointment. Paddock does not meaningfully contribute this year. Grey is a stud. Ryan improves and is also a stud. Several young SPs become solid 3-4 types by September. One mediocre signee is added (could be Bundy).

10. Duran stays in the pen. Lopez, Alcala, Jax and Thielbar are solid. Pagan is gone. We add at least two really good FAs (please dear lord).

Three additional predictions:

1. We resign Correa.

2. No big splash made at C.

3. Lewis, Lee, Julien and Martin are all on the club and contributing by the end of August.

[Blyleven2011]

1 hour ago, Nashvilletwin said:

 

Three additional predictions:

1. We resign Correa.

2. No big splash made at C.

3. Lewis, Lee, Julien and Martin are all on the club and contributing by the end of August.

These are bold predictions  , I like bold predictions  ...

Mine is gray will request a trade this off season  ...

That's my plan and I'm sticking to it  ...

[Nashvilletwin]

1 hour ago, Blyleven2011 said:

These are bold predictions  , I like bold predictions  ...

Mine is gray will request a trade this off season  ...

That's my plan and I'm sticking to it  ...

I agree on the Gray request if Rocco and he can’t come to an agreement on pitching deeper into the game.  However, I don’t think it will be granted per se.

Re my predictions, I’m not saying I’m necessarily hoping for them. Nothing would make me happier than Mahle is a stud, Buxton plays every game in CF, Kiriloff is healthy all year, we sign a stud catcher and #1 starter, and Polanco and Urshela play like all stars all year. 

[Dave The Dastardly]

6 hours ago, RpR said:

Spring training will determine who washes out and who gets another chance; Wallners has shown he should be in AAA, he was a minus 34 runs saved in the outfield;  Miranda, if he can learn to not be a minus fielder, may or may not be on the team this year he was a minus 12 runs saved at first and no better at Third.

Gordon is a minus runs saved in all positions, not that many errors but like his base running just some abolute dork moves, the return of Go Go Gomez.

Nobody can be as bad as Go Go. He's sort of the Mendoza Line of base running. Thanks for bringing him up though, started me laughing, one of those schadenfreuda moments in Twins history.

[stringer bell]

Absolutely no certainty in many of these situations, but here are my opinions/predictions (responding to several responses, not just the OP):

Miranda will be a regular, playing first, third and DH. Injuries and other decisions will determine where he will play.

Gray will not be traded. This isn't the NBA or even the NFL. Trade requests are pretty infrequent and Gray has free agency around the corner.

Celestino should start 2023 in the minors. I thought he was okay in the field, but he's got to hit more than he did last year or in his cameo in 2021.

Maeda will be a starter and be healthy. His performance will be middle-of-the-rotation worthy.

The Twins will get about 40 starts from Mahle/Paddack/Ober. 

The season will be determined by the health of two players--Kirilloff and Buxton--if both are healthy, the Twins lineup will improve its proficiency, but if neither can play half a season, the Twins offense will be in the doldrums as it was this past year.

[Dave The Dastardly]

46 minutes ago, stringer bell said:

Absolutely no certainty in many of these situations, but here are my opinions/predictions (responding to several responses, not just the OP):

Miranda will be a regular, playing first, third and DH. Injuries and other decisions will determine where he will play.

Gray will not be traded. This isn't the NBA or even the NFL. Trade requests are pretty infrequent and Gray has free agency around the corner.

Celestino should start 2023 in the minors. I thought he was okay in the field, but he's got to hit more than he did last year or in his cameo in 2021.

Maeda will be a starter and be healthy. His performance will be middle-of-the-rotation worthy.

The Twins will get about 40 starts from Mahle/Paddack/Ober. 

The season will be determined by the health of two players--Kirilloff and Buxton--if both are healthy, the Twins lineup will improve its proficiency, but if neither can play half a season, the Twins offense will be in the doldrums as it was this past year.

Totally agree Miranda has to be a regular, but given Rocco's (and front office?) obsession to use his young players as jack-of-all-positions, master-of-none, to no strategic advantage, I'd prefer Miranda at 3rd 80% of the time, 10% as DH and 10% at 1B. Assuming Kirilloff is back, he and Arraez can hold down 1B and Miranda can than focus on improving his fielding at one position instead of two.

Arraez and his bad wheels should get more time at DH and I'm sure the continually hobbled Buxton will need more time there as well. So we don't "need" to look for a DH and Urshela (and I like the guy) is expendable, available for trading in the Twins' perennial search for pitching help. Not that Urshela necessarily has a one-for-one trade value for an established pitcher, but packaged with a prospect or two out of the ballyhooed "pipeline", and Sano thrown in as a freebie, we might get someone that doesn't immediately require an appointment with Tommy John.

So in this Miranda scenario you are absolutely correct; the 2023 season will hinge on the health of Kirilloff and Buxton.

[DJL44]

Miranda will not be a starter unless his fielding improves. He'll be a bench bat who fills in to give someone else the day off. He can't beat out Urshela or Arraez as a fielder in the corners.

[Squirrel]

13 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

Miranda will not be a starter unless his fielding improves. He'll be a bench bat who fills in to give someone else the day off. He can't beat out Urshela or Arraez as a fielder in the corners.

Then he’ll start at DH. I think he, Arraez and Kirilloff will all be starters, but they will be mixing and matching different positions. Arraez will get time at 1B, 2B, DH and very sparingly (if at all) 3B; Miranda 1B, 3B, DH; Kirilloff LF, 1B and DH … dependent on health.

And of the three, I think Arraez will spend more time at DH because of his knees. I think Miranda could see more time at 1B than 3B, because I think they need a better fielder at 3B.

And this is dependent on potential off-season trades.

 

[DJL44]

12 minutes ago, Squirrel said:

I think Arraez will spend more time at DH because of his knees.

This is the offseason they should lock up Arraez long term if they intend to do so. Comments like these suggest they should not give him a long term deal. If you're 25 and your knees are so bad you can only DH you are not someone a team should make part of their long term plans.

[chpettit19]

42 minutes ago, Dave The Dastardly said:

Totally agree Miranda has to be a regular, but given Rocco's (and front office?) obsession to use his young players as jack-of-all-positions, master-of-none, to no strategic advantage, I'd prefer Miranda at 3rd 80% of the time, 10% as DH and 10% at 1B. Assuming Kirilloff is back, he and Arraez can hold down 1B and Miranda can than focus on improving his fielding at one position instead of two.

Arraez and his bad wheels should get more time at DH and I'm sure the continually hobbled Buxton will need more time there as well. So we don't "need" to look for a DH and Urshela (and I like the guy) is expendable, available for trading in the Twins' perennial search for pitching help. Not that Urshela necessarily has a one-for-one trade value for an established pitcher, but packaged with a prospect or two out of the ballyhooed "pipeline", and Sano thrown in as a freebie, we might get someone that doesn't immediately require an appointment with Tommy John.

So in this Miranda scenario you are absolutely correct; the 2023 season will hinge on the health of Kirilloff and Buxton.

I agree with getting Miranda more time at 1 spot and letting him develop defensively there, but for me that spot would be 1B, not 3B. I think 3B is set to be covered by a far superior defender in either Lewis or Lee, depending on what they do with SS this offseason. I don't see a long-term future at 3B for Miranda so I'd put him at 1B/DH with Arraez. I think Kirilloff has the ability to claim that 1B spot if he's healthy, but I just can't count on him at all, and there's enough production and health concerns in the corner OF spots that I'd have him out there to start.

I agree Arraez needs to be the primary DH in the rotation to save his legs. I'm hoping another offseason dedicated to strengthening them will help him hold up for more of the season, but I think it's pretty clear those knees are going to dampen his career. Which absolutely sucks. I agree Urshela is expendable, but can't imagine he's worth anything in a trade for pitching. Teams willing to move real pitching and wanting a prospect or 2 wouldn't be interested in Urshela for nearly 10M, and definitely not interested in Sano (who, for the record, is going to be a FA by the end of the week so isn't really an option as a freebie).

[chpettit19]

34 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

Miranda will not be a starter unless his fielding improves. He'll be a bench bat who fills in to give someone else the day off. He can't beat out Urshela or Arraez as a fielder in the corners.

Defense is important, but there's no team that benches a middle of the order bat because of their defense. Miranda will be a top 5 hitter in this lineup so he's absolutely going to be a starter. I do hope him and Correa follow through with the plan to train together to help improve his defense, though.

9 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

This is the offseason they should lock up Arraez long term if they intend to do so. Comments like these suggest they should not give him a long term deal. If you're 25 and your knees are so bad you can only DH you are not someone a team should make part of their long term plans.

I think his knees are exactly why the team hasn't tried to extend him (at least I don't remember any reports that they've talked). He's also not someone who gets super expensive in arbitration so there's less incentive there. I think the type of player he is, and the concerns over his knees, makes him a year to year guy who the Twins don't try to extend until after arbitration.

[Squirrel]

41 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

This is the offseason they should lock up Arraez long term if they intend to do so. Comments like these suggest they should not give him a long term deal. If you're 25 and your knees are so bad you can only DH you are not someone a team should make part of their long term plans.

Sadly, yes, they should not give him a long term contract. 

[Dave The Dastardly]

1 hour ago, chpettit19 said:

I agree with getting Miranda more time at 1 spot and letting him develop defensively there, but for me that spot would be 1B, not 3B. I think 3B is set to be covered by a far superior defender in either Lewis or Lee, depending on what they do with SS this offseason. I don't see a long-term future at 3B for Miranda so I'd put him at 1B/DH with Arraez. I think Kirilloff has the ability to claim that 1B spot if he's healthy, but I just can't count on him at all, and there's enough production and health concerns in the corner OF spots that I'd have him out there to start.

I agree Arraez needs to be the primary DH in the rotation to save his legs. I'm hoping another offseason dedicated to strengthening them will help him hold up for more of the season, but I think it's pretty clear those knees are going to dampen his career. Which absolutely sucks. I agree Urshela is expendable, but can't imagine he's worth anything in a trade for pitching. Teams willing to move real pitching and wanting a prospect or 2 wouldn't be interested in Urshela for nearly 10M, and definitely not interested in Sano (who, for the record, is going to be a FA by the end of the week so isn't really an option as a freebie).

Good arguments all. So to resolve the infield uncertainties the first thing we have to do is resolve the Correa question, then the Kirilloff question, then the Lewis question (which also hinges on the Correa question) then the Arraez question before we can address the Miranda question. Unless Lee screws things up and then all bets are off. In the meantime the Buxton question and the bullpen question are hanging out there like fresh-washed sheets in a tornado; bring 'em in or dive for cover.

 

[DJL44]

1 hour ago, chpettit19 said:

Defense is important, but there's no team that benches a middle of the order bat because of their defense.

They do if they don't have a place for them in the field. FWIW both Arraez and Urshela not only field better, they also hit better than Miranda did last year. If you can't hit or field better than the competition you aren't going to win the starting spot.

[mnfireman]

Just now, DJL44 said:

They do if they don't have a place for them in the field. FWIW both Arraez and Urshela not only field better, they also hit better than Miranda did last year. If you can't hit or field better than the competition you aren't going to win the starting spot.

Unless the competition can't stay on the field.

[Squirrel]

1 hour ago, Dave The Dastardly said:

Good arguments all. So to resolve the infield uncertainties the first thing we have to do is resolve the Correa question, then the Kirilloff question, then the Lewis question (which also hinges on the Correa question) then the Arraez question before we can address the Miranda question. Unless Lee screws things up and then all bets are off. In the meantime the Buxton question and the bullpen question are hanging out there like fresh-washed sheets in a tornado; bring 'em in or dive for cover.

 

Honestly, I don’t think these are dire questions and pretty much the same as what most teams this time of year are asking as they look at their rosters and start fitting the pieces together. But, as I wrote above, I think answering many hinges on signing a SS long term. Do that and a lot falls into place or creates obvious paths for other answers. Lewis is not going to be ready until mid-season, so there is no need to answer that question now and by mid-season there will be a definite path. Miranda will have a place, Arraez will have a place and Kirilloff will have a place. To me, those aren’t even questions. The only question might be if Arraez or Kirilloff is traded. I don’t think so, but could happen.

[chpettit19]

1 hour ago, DJL44 said:

They do if they don't have a place for them in the field. FWIW both Arraez and Urshela not only field better, they also hit better than Miranda did last year. If you can't hit or field better than the competition you aren't going to win the starting spot.

From May 30th (when he was recalled after the Lewis injury) Miranda had a higher wRC+ than both of them. He struck out less than Urshela, tied Arraez in OBP while beating Urshela, out slugged Arraez, had a higher OPS than Arraez, beat them both in ISO, beat them both in wOBA, had a higher hard hit% than both, drove in the most runs on the team (I know some people love RBIs still), and out homered both of them.

So after the first 19 games of his major league career when he really struggled to adapt to major league pitching he was the best hitter of the 3. And arguably the 3rd best hitter on the team behind Buxton and Correa. We're talking about the 2023 season. Do you think 31 year old Urshela is going to out hit 25 year old Miranda in 2023? Jose Miranda is absolutely penciled in as an opening day starter in the heart of the order.

[DJL44]

2 hours ago, chpettit19 said:

From May 30th (when he was recalled after the Lewis injury) Miranda had a higher wRC+ than both of them. He struck out less than Urshela, tied Arraez in OBP while beating Urshela, out slugged Arraez, had a higher OPS than Arraez, beat them both in ISO, beat them both in wOBA, had a higher hard hit% than both, drove in the most runs on the team (I know some people love RBIs still), and out homered both of them.

So after the first 19 games of his major league career when he really struggled to adapt to major league pitching he was the best hitter of the 3. And arguably the 3rd best hitter on the team behind Buxton and Correa. We're talking about the 2023 season. Do you think 31 year old Urshela is going to out hit 25 year old Miranda in 2023? Jose Miranda is absolutely penciled in as an opening day starter in the heart of the order.

I can play the selective endpoints game too.

Last 28 games

Miranda .250/.318/.350

Urshela .381/.451/.485

Arraez .329/.365/.405

Miranda had a hot June and July, the league adjusted to him and he went cold. We will see if he can make the next adjustment.

Urshela didn't really do anything out of the ordinary last season. He should be able to repeat. I hope Miranda out-hits him because considering his lousy fielding he will need to if he wants to contribute.

[RpR]

2 hours ago, chpettit19 said:

From May 30th (when he was recalled after the Lewis injury) Miranda had a higher wRC+ than both of them. He struck out less than Urshela, tied Arraez in OBP while beating Urshela, out slugged Arraez, had a higher OPS than Arraez, beat them both in ISO, beat them both in wOBA, had a higher hard hit% than both, drove in the most runs on the team (I know some people love RBIs still), and out homered both of them.

So after the first 19 games of his major league career when he really struggled to adapt to major league pitching he was the best hitter of the 3. And arguably the 3rd best hitter on the team behind Buxton and Correa. We're talking about the 2023 season. Do you think 31 year old Urshela is going to out hit 25 year old Miranda in 2023? Jose Miranda is absolutely penciled in as an opening day starter in the heart of the order.

Well over at Baseball Ref. his Player-value Batting is:

oWAR 1.7  --   Urshela 2.8

dWAR -1.2  -- Urshels  0.7 

oRAR 17  --   Urshela 27

He is not a, sure in, by any means; spring training will be very important for him. (DH may  be his place)