What do the the coaches do all night?

[Mike Sixel]

I see Gardy ripped on Plouffe for being out of position last night. Isn't positioning players one of the things coaches do? I mean, how is this the player's fault, and not on the the coaches? If they don't do that, what is it they actually do during a game?

 

Just another example, imo, of how this coaching staff blames the players for their own failure to do their job.

[PseudoSABR]

Seriously? You're grasping at straws. Do you expect Gardy to go out there and grab Plouffe by the hips to position him before each play?

[Joe A. Preusser]

Seriously? You're grasping at straws. Do you expect Gardy to go out there and grab Plouffe by the hips to position him before each play?

 

I was thinking something along these lines as well, but you put the image in my head and it made me laugh out loud

[Guest USAFChief]

Seriously? You're grasping at straws. Do you expect Gardy to go out there and grab Plouffe by the hips to position him before each play?

I would expect Gardy and his coaches, to be paying close enough attention to move a fielder before a pitch if they have a problem with positioning, yes. What I don't expect is for the manager, who left his starting pitcher in to give up a lead yet again, to blame his third baseman in the papers for something that should have been discussed ahead of time, and/or been adjusted prior to the pitch.

[Physics Guy]

As a coach, I agree with Mike. If that happened to my team, I would be just as upset at myself for not anticipating that and moving Plouffe. There are at least five coaches in the dugout and one of them should catch that. I doubt this is the first time Kipnis has done this and it should be in the scouting report. It is incumbent on Plouffe to know the situation also, especially with a left handed batter. Gardy needs to stop pointing fingers in the press. This is getting old.

 

Edit: Kipnis has 10 bunt hits in 2+ years, so this should not be surprising.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Everybody here has actually watched a baseball game, right?

 

The coaches have maybe five seconds to notice that a player is out of position and do something about it. It's insane to suggest that the coaches should be yelling at players to move as a pitch is delivered to the plate. Nothing can possibly go wrong there. Of course, there are times when the coaches call a specific play but I'm pretty sure that's not what we're talking about here.

 

You talk to players in the dugout or during a time out. Not when they're in the field, preparing for a pitch.

[Guest USAFChief]

Everybody here has actually watched a baseball game, right?

 

The coaches have maybe five seconds to notice that a player is out of position and do something about it. It's insane to suggest that the coaches should be yelling at players to move as a pitch is delivered to the plate. Nothing can possibly go wrong there. Of course, there are times when the coaches call a specific play but I'm pretty sure that's not what we're talking about here.

 

You talk to players in the dugout or during a time out. Not when they're in the field, preparing for a pitch.

Coaches position players for individual ABs all the time. In fact, according to the PP's game story, the Twins were positioning players prior to this specific Kipnis AB: "I talked to Trevor about that," Twins manager Ron Gardenhire said. "We were looking at our first baseman and trying to move our left fielder (Oswaldo Arcia). Plouffey moved back on us. You can't let him bunt there. That's a situation where Trev just has to be in there." It seems to me if they are able to move their 1st baseman and left fielder, they had time to notice where the third baseman was positioned, too.

Minnesota Twins: Lapses costly in loss to Indians - TwinCities.com

[Brock Beauchamp]

Like I said, you can pre-plan player movement during specific ABs.

 

What you CAN'T do is yell at someone who has moved out of position, which it says Plouffe did in that very quote.

 

You can move him back after the pitch but you can't just scream at the guy half a second into the pitcher's windup when you realize they slid forward or back without you noticing.

[The Greatest Poster Alive]

This is an unforgivable error.

 

G.R.O.G.!

 

Get Rid of Gardy

[Seth Stohs]

Yeah, of all the things people complain about the coaches and Gardy about, this would be really low on my list.

[Thrylos]

Yeah, of all the things people complain about the coaches and Gardy about, this would be really low on my list.

 

I understand the positioning part being low in a list but the publicly throwing players under the bus (and select players only while others cannot do wrong) is totally inexcusable in any profession. Praise publicly and discuss problems privately.

 

The guy needs to go.

[Physics Guy]

Everybody here has actually watched a baseball game, right?

 

Could you be a little more condescending? I'm not sure that comments like that really fit YOUR comment policy. I would expect more from a site administrator.

 

As for what you can and can't do on a field, we are not talking rocket science here. It takes two seconds to move. At least one of the coaches on the bench has responsibility for defensive alignment. If I'm not mistaken, the bunt occurred on the first pitch. There would be plenty of time to communicate to him that it was a possible bunt situation. A simple "watch the bunt" is all that would be needed. Now if he moved after the alignment was set, you are correct, that is hard to do anything about. Of course, that wasn't part of the discussion before your post.

 

My question is, why are they worrying about the veteran 1B rather than the 3B who has much less experience?

[glunn]

I understand the positioning part being low in a list but the publicly throwing players under the bus (and select players only while others cannot do wrong) is totally inexcusable in any profession. Praise publicly and discuss problems privately.

 

The guy needs to go.

 

I agree that the public criticism of players for things like this is counterproductive. And I don't see this happening much with other managers. Why would it not be better to keep this in the clubhouse?

[Reginald Maudling's Shin]

What I read was that they did position Plouffe before the AB (or at least they were comfortable with where he was), but he misinterpreted a sign meant to move Arcia back. As for "throwing him under the bus" what is Gardy supposed to do, not answer the question? I don't think that aspect is a big deal. I'm not a huge Gardy guy at all but complaining about this instance is pretty weak.

Also, if Plouffe is too dumb to realize he shouldn't move so far back as to allow an easy bunt hit that could score a run then that's on him not Gardy. I get he's relatively new to the position but he's not 14 years old.

[Mike Sixel]

There isn't exactly a lot to talk about in coaching, is there? People say all the time coaches have little effect on the game, but I would think, as Tampa proves, that positioning fielders is a place where coaches CAN make a difference. They can't throw for the guy, they can't field for the guy, they can't do much of anything really, other than give them signs about what they want them to do.

 

Maybe Plouffe missed a sign, that's different. But really, what else can a coach really do during a game, other than things like this?

[ashbury]

grab Plouffe by the hips

 

Think of the 12-year-olds, please.

[TheLeviathan]

For Gardy, this seems like tame criticism publicly. Still wish he'd answer this question by saying something like "We may have been out of position there but you have to tip your hat to Kipnis for a good bunt"

 

And then go talk to Trevor if you need to. A question isn't a gun to your head - sometimes tact is nice, even if it's phony. I'll take BS answers all day over less public humiliation of young players.

[IdahoPilgrim]

It just seems to me that everybody is assuming that the first time Gardenhire has raised this issue is here, in a public forum. I just have a hard time believing that. I read between the lines here and it sounds to me like they've tried to work with Plouffe to teach him the position and they are a bit frustrated that he is not picking it up as quickly as they think a MLB player making half a mil a year should.

 

At this level managers shouldn't be sugar-coating it when players make mistakes. In looking at the quote, I don't see anything pejorative other than Plouffe made a mistake and it was costly, which is just the truth.

[TheLeviathan]

At this level managers shouldn't be sugar-coating it when players make mistakes. In looking at the quote, I don't see anything pejorative other than Plouffe made a mistake and it was costly, which is just the truth.

 

I don't care if he talks like a sailor and insults Plouffe into the ground in private - talk to him however he wants - but do it in private. The problem is that he is saying anything publicly.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Could you be a little more condescending? I'm not sure that comments like that really fit YOUR comment policy. I would expect more from a site administrator.

 

As for what you can and can't do on a field, we are not talking rocket science here. It takes two seconds to move. At least one of the coaches on the bench has responsibility for defensive alignment. If I'm not mistaken, the bunt occurred on the first pitch. There would be plenty of time to communicate to him that it was a possible bunt situation. A simple "watch the bunt" is all that would be needed. Now if he moved after the alignment was set, you are correct, that is hard to do anything about. Of course, that wasn't part of the discussion before your post.

 

My question is, why are they worrying about the veteran 1B rather than the 3B who has much less experience?

 

You can expect whatever you please. It's perfectly within my right to question people who are complaining about the coaching staff not making sure that 26 year old third basemen are reading signs correctly when they're trying to position a rookie outfielder and the pitch is seconds from being thrown.

 

I mean, really. Deck chairs, Titanic.

[Physics Guy]

Yes and it's perfectly within our right to question the coaching staff. Why should we not complain if a coach isn't doing exactly what he is paid to do? As I stated earlier, this is Plouffe's fault also. Let's not kid ourselves and think the staff has nothing to do with this. It does not take 5 coaches to position one player. To be clear, I am not stating that the coaches didn't attempt to move Plouffe. If they did try to position him and Plouffe later moved, then it is all on him. Did anybody say the ship was sinking?

[Brock Beauchamp]

Yes and it's perfectly within our right to question the coaching staff. Why should we not complain if a coach isn't doing exactly what he is paid to do? As I stated earlier, this is Plouffe's fault also. Let's not kid ourselves and think the staff has nothing to do with this. It does not take 5 coaches to position one player. To be clear, I am not stating that the coaches didn't attempt to move Plouffe. If they did try to position him and Plouffe later moved, then it is all on him. Did anybody say the ship was sinking?

 

At Progressive Field, you do realize that the majority of the coaching staff is about 200 feet away from Plouffe, right? If Vavra is sending signs at an outfielder and doesn't see Trevor move, there is literally nobody else within range to tell him a bunt might be on. What is Gardenhire supposed to do, call Plouffe on a Bat-Phone hidden under third base?

 

And again, Trevor is a big boy. He shouldn't be mis-reading signs and moving way out of position at this point in his career. Blaming the coaching staff when four out of five members are out of earshot is utterly ridiculous (on top of it being a little ridiculous to expect them to start yelling at Plouffe as the pitcher toes the rubber).

[Joe A. Preusser]

It just seems to me that everybody is assuming that the first time Gardenhire has raised this issue is here, in a public forum. I just have a hard time believing that. I read between the lines here and it sounds to me like they've tried to work with Plouffe to teach him the position and they are a bit frustrated that he is not picking it up as quickly as they think a MLB player making half a mil a year should.

 

At this level managers shouldn't be sugar-coating it when players make mistakes. In looking at the quote, I don't see anything pejorative other than Plouffe made a mistake and it was costly, which is just the truth.

 

You are absolutely correct. Gardy isn't spouting garbage like..."That idiot Plouffe, cost us the game with his bonehead move.." He simply said "Yeah, Plouffe was back too far on that one." Pure, simple statement of fact. As a manager myself (retail, not baseball) I can professionally attest to the importance of honest, respectful candor. You don't ignore things, you don't sugar coat things, you politely but firmly tell it like it is. And for those of you complaining about Gardy saying this in a press conference, remember that we're talking about entertainer-athletes. By their very nature they are in the public eye. I gaurentee Gardy or someone on his staff said something much more pointed and direct to Plouffe in private.

[TheLeviathan]

I gaurentee Gardy or someone on his staff said something much more pointed and direct to Plouffe in private.

 

Then keep it there. There is literally ZERO to be gained by reiterating it publicly.

[Joe A. Preusser]

Then keep it there. There is literally ZERO to be gained by reiterating it publicly.

 

Wrong. Refusing to acknowledge a mistake passively accepts it, even if it's just in the public's mind.

And if he ignores the question that reporter asked, then there would be many on this site who would bash him for not dealing with Plouff's mistake.

[johnnydakota]

Seriously? You're grasping at straws. Do you expect Gardy to go out there and grab Plouffe by the hips to position him before each play?

 

Um yes, isint it the coaches and managers job to look at tapes and stats to see how certain batters are hitting and where?

[johnnydakota]

Everybody here has actually watched a baseball game, right?

 

The coaches have maybe five seconds to notice that a player is out of position and do something about it. It's insane to suggest that the coaches should be yelling at players to move as a pitch is delivered to the plate. Nothing can possibly go wrong there. Of course, there are times when the coaches call a specific play but I'm pretty sure that's not what we're talking about here.

 

You talk to players in the dugout or during a time out. Not when they're in the field, preparing for a pitch.

 

Closer to 15 to 30 seconds , and if a coach and manager isint at least 2 or 3 batters ahead of the game then there just coasting and not working.

[johnnydakota]

There isn't exactly a lot to talk about in coaching, is there? People say all the time coaches have little effect on the game, but I would think, as Tampa proves, that positioning fielders is a place where coaches CAN make a difference. They can't throw for the guy, they can't field for the guy, they can't do much of anything really, other than give them signs about what they want them to do.

 

Maybe Plouffe missed a sign, that's different. But really, what else can a coach really do during a game, other than things like this?

 

Whos the infield coach and what are there duties?

Vavra(notebook of failure , or ullger im not a real coach but i stayed at a holiday inn once)

[johnnydakota]

It just seems to me that everybody is assuming that the first time Gardenhire has raised this issue is here, in a public forum. I just have a hard time believing that. I read between the lines here and it sounds to me like they've tried to work with Plouffe to teach him the position and they are a bit frustrated that he is not picking it up as quickly as they think a MLB player making half a mil a year should.

 

At this level managers shouldn't be sugar-coating it when players make mistakes. In looking at the quote, I don't see anything pejorative other than Plouffe made a mistake and it was costly, which is just the truth.

 

Making half a million a year,or in better words 1/6 of the average player?

a player who last year was thrown into the position?

Why do many people want to believe that management **** flowers and fart roses?

I understand some whos living depends on spinning things to make there sources look good to keep there inside information flowing, but others who have nothing at stake to swallow as much of the companys kool aide , well thats a different story

[johnnydakota]

You can expect whatever you please. It's perfectly within my right to question people who are complaining about the coaching staff not making sure that 26 year old third basemen are reading signs correctly when they're trying to position a rookie outfielder and the pitch is seconds from being thrown.

 

I mean, really. Deck chairs, Titanic.

 

doing it in public is not correct