Xander Bogaerts Represents a Happy Medium for the Twins

[ashbury]

8 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

When you throw 101 you can afford to lose a little velocity. He'd still be unhittable at 98 MPH.

Imagine a world where Johan Santana never left the bullpen. That's the kind of stuff Duran has. It's a shame to only use it 60 innings per season.

[Comment redacted - I just remembered this is a Bogaerts thread]

[Squirrel]

22 hours ago, Whitey333 said:

Twins need pitching.  Good pitching.  The amount of monies being talked about here would leave very little payroll flexibility to improve in other areas.  I would be all for signing Correa if I knew we had more payroll to improve the team.  I just don't see the twins dipping into expensive free agents long term.

They far, far, far are less likely to pay for great starting pitching than a position player. So if we have a staff of mediocre to good with no great pitching, then we need to pay for a great SS, followed by great BP arms. Especially with the ban of the shift it is even more important to have a great SS. Even if you have to move that SS to 2nd or 3rd in 6, 7 or 8 years. We are never paying for an ace pitcher. Get the SS. Preferably the one who is better than Bogaerts, but get the SS.

[Squirrel]

20 hours ago, PatPfund said:

Too expensive and too long term for SS (which really needs to be glove-first). And as several have pointed out, we need an ace before we need a SS, and we have other holes at C and OF that Bogaerts cannot fill (and will keep us from filling by soaking up most the FA money). Just a reminder that WE WERE NOT GOOD IN A BAD DIVISION this year WITH Correa.

(And I guess I agree with @DocBauer's point; if you are going to this level, why not pay Correa for two more years since he is two years younger? Though I should add that I think both are a bad idea. Get Rodón while we have the coin free to do it.)

I do not agree with needing an ace before a great SS … see my post above. The Twins will simply not spend on an ace. They won’t. And we are a bad team in a bad division, so … what are you saying, don’t spend the money at all? If we aren’t spending it on a SS, we aren’t spending it on anyone. And my guess is that’s what they do. We will go with a stopgap at SS followed by whoever we have in house who is ready and let the chips fall where they may which is likely 3rd or worse in a bad division. Get the SS, a couple of great BP arms, followed by a quality backup catcher who can split time with Jeffers, and maybe we will have ourselves a team. That’s our only hope, imo.

[rv78]

I would not have a problem with signing Bogaerts. At least the guy can hit. What we don't need is a defense only SS. Any additions to the field also need to be able to HIT. With a stable full of young developing arms for the rotation already here I don't see them signing much when it comes to new pitching. Depending on what they do with Urshela, Kepler, Polanco a good bat at SS is the only way to go. 

[Linus]

14 hours ago, Vanimal46 said:

Too much of the free agent budget for what?

Front line starter

right handed outfielder 

catcher

2 bullpen arms. 

[TopGunn#22]

I can't see the Mets not retaining Edwin Diaz, but someone had a Twins roster which included signing him and that roster was still something like $6-$7 million under budget.  If you had Diaz and Lopez at the back end of the bullpen THAT'S when you consider Duran for the rotation.  A solid STARTER is always more valuable than a solid relief pitcher, even a closer.  Duran had a remarkably healthy season as a relief pitcher, but he'd be WAAAY more valuable in the rotation for 150-175 innings.  

And Alcala is a wildcard who could fill a key spot in the bullpen as well.  What would our rotation look like if we had Rodon at the top and Duran in there somewhere ?  I'd be pretty intrigued with THAT.

[PatPfund]

3 hours ago, Squirrel said:

I do not agree with needing an ace before a great SS … see my post above. The Twins will simply not spend on an ace. They won’t. And we are a bad team in a bad division, so … what are you saying, don’t spend the money at all? If we aren’t spending it on a SS, we aren’t spending it on anyone. And my guess is that’s what they do. We will go with a stopgap at SS followed by whoever we have in house who is ready and let the chips fall where they may which is likely 3rd or worse in a bad division. Get the SS, a couple of great BP arms, followed by a quality backup catcher who can split time with Jeffers, and maybe we will have ourselves a team. That’s our only hope, imo.

Well, clearly you read very little I wrote. I advocate spending $28-30 million a year on Rodón, and another roughly $20 million per year to get a STARTING catcher (Jeffers is a backup until he proves otherwise), and a starting OF, and you read that as "dont spend money at all?" Not sure how you got there, but you be you.

It also seems you are making up the "If we aren't spending it on SS, we aren't spending it on anyone." There is no basis for that speculation (until last year the Twins had never spent anything like that ON shortstop), and without that tenet your argument kind of falls apart.

FYI, the Twins HAD that SS this year, so essentially you are saying the Twins were a couple great BP arms and a quality backup catcher away this year, and while it might have helped in the division, and... well... I don't agree. If you could clone the 2022 Twins (especially the roster of the last two months when Correa was at his best), add two great bullpen arms to the originals, then delete Correa, and add Rodón, Christian Vasquez and Andrew Benintendi, I'd pick the Clones over the Originals in a 7 game series time after time.

The Twins have a fairly rare abundance of unassigned FA/roster money this offseason. They have recent proof (aka the 2022 Twins and Rangers) a big money SS isn't "the" answer here. They may have noticed that NO recent Series winner (a decade plus and guaranteed already again for this year) had a big contract at SS. They also have been open to wildly unusual (for this franchise) wheeling and dealing including big contracts. So I think all bets are reasonably off on what they "will" do.