Looking at 3 Under-The-Radar Shortstop Trade Targets

[old nurse]

7 hours ago, PatPfund said:

??? Don't you ever read things that make you giggle? Or am I supposed to agree with everything posted on the site? Especially the comments? I can pretty much guarantee that if everybody posted the same thing here, and everybody agreed with all of the articles, and I agreed with everybody else here, I'd never visit the site again.

I come to learn, sometimes be inspired by other Twins fans, sometimes (okay, a lot) share their pain, and sometimes share my opinion (which is based on decades of playing and watching the game, and yep, is just as flawed as many others here). Renewing as a caretaker for next season will be a super easy call!

Not everybody wants Correa resigned. I find it hard to laugh at that kind of statement. 

[PatPfund]

23 hours ago, TwinsDr2021 said:

I feel pretty confident they Twins aren't spending 25+ million on a starting pitcher unless they change their pitching philosophy next year.

Also I am not a fan of another light hitting left handed hitting outfielder

I'd also bet you were pretty confident last February that Correa wasn't signing with the Twins. And likely in June you were highly doubtful the Twins would go out and trade for a really good SP, a solid depth arm, and closer at the trading deadline. No shame in that, because I was 100% sure in both cases (and 100% wrong).

But this front office, even in moves that haven't worked out (yet) is making far more aggressive moves than they (or any other group that I can remember) has made in the past. They clearly have the means (through excellent money management) to make this move (or others). They have the motivation (another lousy season, and ownership will almost have to roll heads). And I'm no longer 100% sure of anything, which is pretty refreshing.

FYI... a) I am not a left/right fetishist (though Rocco clearly is); I'd rather see a legitimate left-handed hitter face a lefty than a AAA player like Kyle Garlick. Talent matters more than batting side.

b) I'm also not locked in on who the bats are, but Andrew Benintendi hit .304 this year, stole 8 bags, had a 120 OPS+ while playing elite defense. His 2022 WAR of 3.2 would have placed him 4th on this year's Twins roster trailing only Correa, Arraez, and Buxton, and slightly ahead of Gio Urshela. He's played in the bright lights, his baseball IQ is light years beyond Celestino's, and Benintendi would be a serious upgrade over every Twins OF not named Buxton. (But again, that is just one option.)

[Doctor Gast]

On 10/19/2022 at 11:30 AM, jmlease1 said:

If the money & years are right, it won't matter who is plugged in at SS. Just like it won't bring anybody in at a discount having Byron Buxton patrolling CF. Yes, players want to win and will look at the overall status of the club when deciding to sign somewhere, but at the end of the day FA signings have a lot more to do with years and dollars than anything else. It's the opportunity to make life-changing, generational wealth, even if it means playing with a guy who uses a frying pan rather than a glove behind them. Besides, people can convince themselves of anything: "They'll address SS next season. He's better than you think. Better team defense will make it look ok. I strike out everybody anyways." and so on...

I'm sorry Jimmy, I don't agree. Top of the line pitchers when they have a choice, they like big markets and they love a great SS behind them. Poor defense creates runs against them, that costs them games, that makes them look bad which cost them $.  It's true they'll normally don't give discounts for defense (or anythingelse for matter of fact). 

Gordon has never evaluated well at SS. The '21 fiasco, when they forced him to transform from a SS to CF breathed life into his dying baseball career. Now he's a much better OFer than INFer.

[jmlease1]

57 minutes ago, Doctor Gast said:

I'm sorry Jimmy, I don't agree. Top of the line pitchers when they have a choice, they like big markets and they love a great SS behind them. Poor defense creates runs against them, that costs them games, that makes them look bad which cost them $.  It's true they'll normally don't give discounts for defense (or anythingelse for matter of fact). 

Gordon has never evaluated well at SS. The '21 fiasco, when they forced him to transform from a SS to CF breathed life into his dying baseball career. Now he's a much better OFer than INFer.

well, I'm not "jimmy", but whatev. Can you name a single instance of someone refusing to sign with a team because their SS defense sucked? Top pitchers do like big markets, because they pay the best, the endorsement opportunities are higher, etc. They also generally spend more and win more consistently. Gerrit Cole signed with the Yankees and I'm pretty sure the fact that Gleyber Torres was their SS didn't really impact the discussion. Didi Gregorius slipped enough at SS for the Yankees to move on from him, but it didn't get in the way of Zack Wheeler signing with the Phillies...and he's not been a good defender for them either (and in fact has been so bad on both ends that they would be a contender for Correa!).

You're right: Gordon has been better defensively as an OF than an infielder, and I wouldn't consider him a great candidate to hold down SS even as an interim, and I think the Twins agree. But if we pay the money and get the years right, it wouldn't matter if he was out starting SS: a pitcher would sign, absent other complicating factors.

[Doctor Gast]

2 hours ago, jmlease1 said:

well, I'm not "jimmy", but whatev. Can you name a single instance of someone refusing to sign with a team because their SS defense sucked? Top pitchers do like big markets, because they pay the best, the endorsement opportunities are higher, etc. They also generally spend more and win more consistently. Gerrit Cole signed with the Yankees and I'm pretty sure the fact that Gleyber Torres was their SS didn't really impact the discussion. Didi Gregorius slipped enough at SS for the Yankees to move on from him, but it didn't get in the way of Zack Wheeler signing with the Phillies...and he's not been a good defender for them either (and in fact has been so bad on both ends that they would be a contender for Correa!).

You're right: Gordon has been better defensively as an OF than an infielder, and I wouldn't consider him a great candidate to hold down SS even as an interim, and I think the Twins agree. But if we pay the money and get the years right, it wouldn't matter if he was out starting SS: a pitcher would sign, absent other complicating factors.

Sorry, my bad. I see what you mean where being well compensated & the exposure of being in NY they would overlook this setback. Maybe if a front line SP is given a premium over what they are worth to play in MN (which I doubt very much that they'd do) with a temporary sub par SS, they might consider it but I still doubt it.