Carlos Correa Makes His Decision Clear

[DJL44]

8 minutes ago, Jeff D. said:

Keep Correa. The best SS we have had in decades.

This is true. Carlos Correa just had the best season by a Twins SS since Roy Smalley in the late 1970s. He was worth every penny of his contract.

[HrbieFan]

He has been sold at SS this year, but he is a step below Turner and Bogarts IMO. He isn't getting 10 years at his age from anyone! 6-8 years at $30 is more than fair for what he produced 

[magoose]

We weren't in love, oh no, far from it
We weren't searchin' for some pie in the sky summit
We were just young and restless and bored
Livin' by the sword
And we'd steal away every chance we could
To the backroom, to the alley or the trusty woods
I used the Twins, the Twins used me
But neither one cared
We were gettin' our share

 

(Apologies to Bob Seger)

[DJL44]

6 minutes ago, bighat said:

I've never been into a Dior store, and neither have most people reading this story. A lot of Twins fans sitting at their breakfast tables in Brainerd or Roseau or Minneapolis may not even know what Dior is. Correa reciting a metaphor that involves paying thousands for a t-shirt or hundreds of thousands for a bracelet or whatever just comes across in poor taste.

I also have never shopped at Dior. I've heard of it but I wouldn't even know where they have a store. I looked it up and anyone spending $990 for a t-shirt is just doing it to show off how much money they have to waste. By his analogy I would have to believe that spending money on Carlos Correa is just wasteful, conspicuous consumption for a rich team to try to impress rich people.

[mac098]

3 hours ago, FrankQuilicy said:

This is all on The Fantastic Falvines. If I am Correa and I love Minnesota as much as i say, I am open to a multi year deal of say 5 years $200 mil. I dont see any shortstop on our horizon in less than 5 years. Lewis will end up being a super sub. Martin will never be a shortstop. Palacios cant hit at all, and Lee is at least 5 years away. Anyone who saw them play live when the games mattered saw what Correa brings to the game. Seager IMHO is no way the player Correa is. For the nerds, look at the spread sheet. I am sure Correa was a top 3 shortstop in 2022. i already know an ace pitcher isnt coming, why not lock up our next Captain?

So you're saying that Lee is going to be 25-27 when he finally gets to the show? If that is the case, I think we need to make sure we are drafting better. Because I think that if we are drafting college players, they more than likely aren't going to be spending a lot of years down in the minors. Maybe 2-3 years, unless you get a star who is on the fast track to the MLB like Kris Bryant, where at that point you will "manipulate" their service time to earn that extra year out of them. 

Personally I don't think that Lee is going to stick at SS. He might be better off playing somewhere else, or at the very least, tasting other positions (2B and 1B) where we might have shortcomings in our org or at our MLB depth chart. Of course, some of those shortcomings can be changed with a reduction of injuries to the players. 

But I am gonna have to agree that the majority of our current MiLB SS aren't going to stick it there and that we need to lock him long term. Whether that means we actually gotta open the pocket-book and pay him, then that's what we gotta do. 

[TruthInDuluth]

Twins are one if the few fiscally smart teams.  Not paying for long term contracts that seldom work out for any team.  A rare exception was the Mauer contract. One only needs look at the last few years of that contract to see the foolishness of over a five year contract. 
 

[PopRiveter]

I was quoted as saying something similar.

"When I go to Mills Fleet Farm and I go to the fishing lure clearance bin and I want something, I do some math to determine the price minus the color-coded percentage discount. But I usually decide it still costs more than I want to pay. So if you're a cheap enough guy, you can pass on just about anything. I'm the product here, and not especially good at baseball, so..." 

[LastOnePicked]

A reloading team with as much payroll flexibility as the Twins have, one that sees a potential AL title in 2023, has already signed Correa to an extended contract. They see the value, and they know that if either Lewis or Lee can develop, either can serve as a quality backup while they're learning from one of the best in the game. Either could also be used to trade for high-end pitching.

A rebuilding team, one that knows a title is still out of sight, has no need of Correa. They already would have notified him of their decision, not leaving him on the fence for reporters to hassle him about his option and expose him to fan vitriol. That team takes its lumps with Palacios and Gordon while Lee and Lewis try to (re)develop their MLB skills.

A driftless team, one with no clue as to where it's headed, lets something like this happen. A great player is left dangling while the FO sees if they can maybe wait out the offseason and pick him or another top SS again for a no-commitments contract. That team will stumble through yet another season, kinda rebuilding, kinda reloading, with no vision or timetable for winning a title.

Personally, I wish we were either the first or the second kind of team.

[DJL44]

12 minutes ago, TruthInDuluth said:

Twins are one if the few fiscally smart teams.  Not paying for long term contracts that seldom work out for any team.  A rare exception was the Mauer contract. One only needs look at the last few years of that contract to see the foolishness of over a five year contract. 
 

The Twins received fair value from the Mauer contract.

[laloesch]

44 minutes ago, HrbieFan said:

He has been sold at SS this year, but he is a step below Turner and Bogarts IMO. He isn't getting 10 years at his age from anyone! 6-8 years at $30 is more than fair for what he produced 

Yeah.  And if he doesn't want it then he walks.  It's not like the Twins are going to win a world series either way.  He's a good player, but the pieces around him just aren't there.  I say let him go.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

1 hour ago, Riverbrian said:

If you ever find yourself wondering why you are being lied to, please understand that you are the reason.

No.

[laloesch]

10 minutes ago, LastOnePicked said:

A reloading team with as much payroll flexibility as the Twins have, one that sees a potential AL title in 2023, has already signed Correa to an extended contract. They see the value, and they know that if either Lewis or Lee can develop, either can serve as a quality backup while they're learning from one of the best in the game. Either could also be used to trade for high-end pitching.

A rebuilding team, one that knows a title is still out of sight, has no need of Correa. They already would have notified him of their decision, not leaving him on the fence for reporters to hassle him about his option and expose him to fan vitriol. That team takes its lumps with Palacios and Gordon while Lee and Lewis try to (re)develop their MLB skills.

A driftless team, one with no clue as to where it's headed, lets something like this happen. A great player is left dangling while the FO sees if they can maybe wait out the offseason and pick him or another top SS again for a no-commitments contract. That team will stumble through yet another season, kinda rebuilding, kinda reloading, with no vision or timetable for winning a title.

Personally, I wish we were either the first or the second kind of team.

Honestly knowing how this team is run they should have traded him for prospects, but I'm not in charge.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

9 hours ago, Seth Stohs said:

Why the vitriol? He isn't doing or saying anything that wasn't expected. 

He was always going to opt-out. That was clear from Day 1. 

I thought he phrased it very well. It's actually a really good analogy, very true. 

Also, why would he get any less than Seager got? 

He's still young for a free agent, so he should get 10 years (like Seager), but certainly would get at least 8 years. And he'll get $30-35 million per year. At the lowest, he's looking at 8 years and $240 million, and at the highest, it could be 10 years and $325 million. All of that is more than 1 year, $35.1 million. Pretty sure none of us would do any different. 

I did not see any vitriol in this thread, certainly none up to the point you posted this.

If the vitriol you are seeing is coming from Twitter, from the outside, why bring it into to your website? 

[whosafraidofluigirussolo]

4 hours ago, FrankQuilicy said:

I dont see any shortstop on our horizon in less than 5 years. Lewis will end up being a super sub. Martin will never be a shortstop. Palacios cant hit at all, and Lee is at least 5 years away.

Lee: ??  He was promoted through 3 levels of the minors and reached AA within 3 months of being drafted. He won't be ready for opening day 2023, but even in an organization that can be conservative about prospect promotions, he's going to be in the majors in much, much less time than 5 years.

Basically agreed on Martin and Palacios.

The Twins have been committed to playing Lewis at shortstop other than when he was in the AFL (with other SS on the roster to consider) and when they prematurely tried to shoehorn him in that super-sub role at the MLB level. They were willing to start him at SS every day when they first promoted him. I don't know that he'll stay there long term, and his knee is now a huge wild card, but if the latest surgery recovery goes anywhere near as well as the first one did, he'll get a chance to start at SS again.

Certainly the timing of Correa opting out isn't good, with Lewis and Lee likely to be close but not ready at the beginning of 2023. IMO signing him could be a totally defensible decision and letting him walk could be too, depending on their evaluations of Lee and Lewis.

[roger]

1 hour ago, bighat said:

I think the analogy is probably what draws the vitriol. 

I've never been into a Dior store, and neither have most people reading this story. A lot of Twins fans sitting at their breakfast tables in Brainerd or Roseau or Minneapolis may not even know what Dior is. Correa reciting a metaphor that involves paying thousands for a t-shirt or hundreds of thousands for a bracelet or whatever just comes across in poor taste. 

So I disagree with you and think - for Correa's image - it was a terrible analogy. When a player who is walking away from your team talks about going shopping at the Dior store, it doesn't do him any favors. 

Personally I like Correa and hope the Twins find a way to bring him back. Don't think they will, and it's a big loss for the organization. Big hole to fill. 

Great comment, bighat.  But I have a question, is there a Dior store in the Twin Cities?  

[DJL44]

10 minutes ago, roger said:

Great comment, bighat.  But I have a question, is there a Dior store in the Twin Cities?  

I looked it up. Yes, inside Nordstrom's at Mall of America.

[Squirrel]

52 minutes ago, Hosken Bombo Disco said:

I did not see any vitriol in this thread, certainly none up to the point you posted this.

If the vitriol you are seeing is coming from Twitter, from the outside, why bring it into to your website? 

Actually, this site of late is worse than twitter. I go there now most of the time.

[laloesch]

34 minutes ago, Squirrel said:

Actually, this site of late is worse than twitter. I go there now most of the time.

That's understandable and sometimes this site has too much of it.  Minnesota snarkiness unfortunately comes with the territory of dealing with fans of this franchise.  I've dealt with it all my life.  Scandinavians (yes, my heritage is as well) can be incredibly stoic but also snarky and passive aggressive to a fault.  It's not really a flattering quality.     

[Battle ur tail off]

Get in the office now and give him an offer. Make it fair, but not stupid. If he says no, then move on. Remind him also that you are willing to do another deal like the last one if he can't find what he wants in a long term deal. Tell him he can have 50 mil for one year, who cares. 

I am not certain that it is worth it to go longer than 5 years with him. 5 years 40-50 per year, I would honestly be fine with that. I just don't want him around here playing 2B, 3B or DH, OPSing .650 and eating up a quarter of our payroll when he is 35-36-37

 

[Doctor Gast]

Correa wants MN to propose a long term commitment. Knowing the Twins, they will open up with an unacceptable offer. Correa will opt out and start to court other offers. Correa will be disappointed & not get what he wants due to various reasons. What'll happen after that is anyones guess. MN has a chance at a very reasonable long term or a one year deal, depending how serious Correa is about staying.

I'm all for Correa tying the knot with us.

[rv78]

I'm the product here, so if they want my product, they just gotta come get it."

Based on those comments it's very obvious the Twins have not tried to extend Correa with a longer term contract. If you wanted him at $35M and you know what you are doing as an organization wouldn't you have made an effort to sign him long-term already? Waiting for him to opt out and look at other offers signals to me that the Twins don't want him back. I can see both viewpoints. Yes, he's the best shortstop they have had in years. I'd like to see him return, but he's also expensive. If they can find a stop-gap guy to make it until Lewis or Brooks or Miller are ready then maybe the money would be better off spent elsewhere, like pitching. Maybe the stop-gap SS is already in house. I know, Gordon and Polanco and even Urshela have played SS. Yes, it's not at a high level. But with those 3 and Arraez and Miranda you would have a decent "hitting" infield even without adding someone new. I say, take the $35M and go get 2 pitchers, 1 for the rotation and 1 for the bullpen. Just make sure they are GOOD, YOUNG and HEALTHY. 

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

37 minutes ago, Squirrel said:

Actually, this site of late is worse than twitter. I go there now most of the time.

In a nutshell, the quality of Twins commentary is going to reflect the team’s Win-Loss record and playoff success, regardless of platform or medium.

Bringing in new baseball operations people, new coaches, will hopefully make the team better, send them deep into the postseason, and in turn improve the quality of the site and better discussion. Some of us see all of that as interrelated, the first part being the most important part that leads to the last part. 

Sure, as long as you are mentioning the quality of the site, I will also say that I think this site was better when it was more of a hobby for a few devoted writers, than whatever it is now. But there are still great things happening on here. Why completely jump ship here for Twitter? 

[Minny505]

13 hours ago, HerbieFan said:

Probably not the one he's looking for, but still likely more than the club would be willing to pay him...or for longer than he's willing to pay him?

Agreed. He does probably get $250mil though over 8 years, or something like that. I doubt his total pay starts with a 3 though.

[chpettit19]

2 hours ago, LastOnePicked said:

A reloading team with as much payroll flexibility as the Twins have, one that sees a potential AL title in 2023, has already signed Correa to an extended contract. They see the value, and they know that if either Lewis or Lee can develop, either can serve as a quality backup while they're learning from one of the best in the game. Either could also be used to trade for high-end pitching.

A rebuilding team, one that knows a title is still out of sight, has no need of Correa. They already would have notified him of their decision, not leaving him on the fence for reporters to hassle him about his option and expose him to fan vitriol. That team takes its lumps with Palacios and Gordon while Lee and Lewis try to (re)develop their MLB skills.

A driftless team, one with no clue as to where it's headed, lets something like this happen. A great player is left dangling while the FO sees if they can maybe wait out the offseason and pick him or another top SS again for a no-commitments contract. That team will stumble through yet another season, kinda rebuilding, kinda reloading, with no vision or timetable for winning a title.

Personally, I wish we were either the first or the second kind of team.

So the Astros need to fire their FO? They did the exact same thing with Correa last year the Twins are doing this year. Letting him hit the market and see if he can get somebody to pay his asking price. The Braves did it with Freeman. Yankees are currently doing it with Judge. Dodgers doing it with Turner. Braves and Swanson. Red Sox and Bogaerts. Rockies with Story last year. 

That's a bunch of "driftless teams" who win a lot of games (plus the Rockies). It's almost like this is actually a pretty normal situation that plays out 100% of seasons and it's how big free agents are ever on the market. The FO has plenty of things for us to be mad about, we don't need to exaggerate situations and act like they aren't normal to add to the pile of complaints they've already earned.

Correa was never going to accept anything from the Twins before hitting the market again that wasn't at least 10 years 325 mil to match Seager. Should the Twins have given him that? I wouldn't, but maybe people think they should. I wouldn't go over 7 years and I'd wait for the offseason to see if he can get someone to go 10/325 or if I have a shot at 7 years 250. Not everything is just the FO being terrible at their jobs.

[baul0010]

6 hours ago, FrankQuilicy said:

This is all on The Fantastic Falvines. If I am Correa and I love Minnesota as much as i say, I am open to a multi year deal of say 5 years $200 mil. I dont see any shortstop on our horizon in less than 5 years. Lewis will end up being a super sub. Martin will never be a shortstop. Palacios cant hit at all, and Lee is at least 5 years away. Anyone who saw them play live when the games mattered saw what Correa brings to the game. Seager IMHO is no way the player Correa is. For the nerds, look at the spread sheet. I am sure Correa was a top 3 shortstop in 2022. i already know an ace pitcher isnt coming, why not lock up our next Captain?

Why is Brooks 5 years away?  I think he's 21.  If he doesn't come up until he's 26, something has gone terribly wrong with his development.  But, who knows if he'll even stick at S.S.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

At this point in time I think it makes the most sense to skip 2023 and rebuild for 2024 with Lewis, Arraez, and Brooks Lee I guess. Larnach and Wallner might fit at a corner somewhere. Maybe Kirilloff makes a full recovery. That would be a lot of offense. It’s still yet to be seen what their plan is for pitching, but maybe some of these young guys will be allowed to develop the way pitchers have always been allowed to develop, or at least since the 70s or 80s when the fireman came on the scene. 

[MTV]

Pay the man. If you can dump Sano and Kepler you have around $50-$60 million in spending money this off-season, and oddly enough you’ve got a 6-man rotation with serious depth (Gray, Mahle, Ryan, Ober, Maeda, Winder; Dobnak, Varland, Smeltzer and SWR as depth starters) and could save serious money there. You need a SS, a solid catcher, righty outfield help and another bullpen arm. You can still pay Correa $30m this year on a lengthy contract and have enough to bolster the rest of the regime.

As for the future at SS, Lewis, Lee and Martin could scoot over to 2B/3B, Julien and future SS can be used as trade bait. Then you have serious depth around the infield AND premium players

[chpettit19]

I don't get how anyone is surprised by this kind of comment or that he's going to go wherever he gets paid the most. This was literally always how things were going to play out unless he had a major injury. Corey Seager got 10/325 last year coming off a season with 3.7 bWAR and not having played more than 134 games in a season since 2017. Correa has 5.3 bWAR this year after having 7.2 last year and will be coming off 3 mostly healthy years. He was never going to opt in. He was never going to take any deal that was less than 10/325 before he hit the market again.

So the only discussion that should be happening is whether or not the Twins should've just handed him 10/325 instead of this opt-out deal, or if they should've handed him 10/325 during the season, or if they should be offering it to him now. Any numbers below that weren't things that he would've signed. He didn't fire his old agent and hire Boras for any reason other than getting 10/325+.

[In My La Z boy]

I wonder what he really thinks about our chances to get to a world series in the next 2 years? I think we are in trouble. Correa said this is Buxton's team right from the start. I wonder about the situation we find ourselves in when the guy who's team it is cannot stay on the field? My opinion is - we need players like Correa if we are to ever make a world series. I also wonder what his real take is on Rocco, and our organization? 
High caliber pitching covers a lot of ills. Let us all hope we redirect Correa's salary into a high caliber pitching staff right from the beginning of 2023. We have talent to cover the infield that isn't the issue. The issue is leadership. Leadership in the front office, leadership from the dugout, and leadership on the field. Correa was unquestionably our on field leader this year.

[Mike Sixel]

54 minutes ago, Hosken Bombo Disco said:

In a nutshell, the quality of Twins commentary is going to reflect the team’s Win-Loss record and playoff success, regardless of platform or medium.

Bringing in new baseball operations people, new coaches, will hopefully make the team better, send them deep into the postseason, and in turn improve the quality of the site and better discussion. Some of us see all of that as interrelated, the first part being the most important part that leads to the last part. 

Sure, as long as you are mentioning the quality of the site, I will also say that I think this site was better when it was more of a hobby for a few devoted writers, than whatever it is now. But there are still great things happening on here. Why completely jump ship here for Twitter? 

It doesn't have to go into every celebration thread. That's like going to a wedding and pointing out everything wrong with the couple. Given they posted here, it is clear they didn't completely jump ship. This site is a cesspool right now, frankly. Every single thread.