it's over. bye-bye carlos

[garn from vancouver]

 

[CRF]

I don't think there's ever been any doubt that he would opt out  I'd love for him to stick around, but I'd be shocked if he did. Some team (Cubs?) will throw a boat-load of cash and a longer term deal at him. 

[alexlegge]

Hahaha. Great quote. For a second I thought he was referring to the Mall of America. Silly me. He secretly probably hates Juicy Lucys too. The man might not be super genuine all the time, but he knows how to play a real solid shortstop and win a fanbase over. I wish him well.

[tony&rodney]

131 games so far - Correa comes to play. He is not wrong. It is the Twins call.

[Irishman]

9 hours ago, tony&rodney said:

131 games so far - Correa comes to play. He is not wrong. It is the Twins call.

Carlos, if you wanted to opt-out, go ahead and make my day!  

[Squirrel]

9 hours ago, tony&rodney said:

131 games so far - Correa comes to play. He is not wrong. It is the Twins call.

Exactly. Which is why he won’t be signing a deal with us because the Twins won’t pay.

[Brock Beauchamp]

The Twins won't pony up the money but given how loathe they are to spend on pitching, there's no good reason they shouldn't throw a monstrous pile of cash at Correa.

But hey, signing six $8m or under guys has worked so well for them, it will be hard to convince them to stray from that path.

[Number3]

Correa is a good major league player. He is not a $35mil/year player and never should have been signed for anywhere near that amount by a team like the Twins. Did they expect him to single handedly take them to the promised land? I bet no one else claims him for what he thinks he is worth unless the Twins end up paying for a good chunk of his salary to play for another team. Kind of like paying Street Clothes Buxton I am sorry to say.

[FlyingFinn]

3 minutes ago, Number3 said:

the Twins end up paying for a good chunk of his salary to play for another team.

I'm not sure what you are talking about. Correa can opt to become a free agent or choose to take $35 million from the Twins next year. The Twins will pay $0 for him to play for another team.

[Brock Beauchamp]

3 minutes ago, Number3 said:

Correa is a good major league player. He is not a $35mil/year player and never should have been signed for anywhere near that amount by a team like the Twins. Did they expect him to single handedly take them to the promised land? I bet no one else claims him for what he thinks he is worth unless the Twins end up paying for a good chunk of his salary to play for another team. Kind of like paying Street Clothes Buxton I am sorry to say.

Correa is better than good. He's wrapping up his age 27 season and has over 30 career fWAR.

The only real problem with Correa is his health issues, he's damned near a perfect player outside of being unable to stay on the field. He has played 120 or more games only three times in his career.

But when he's on the field, he's spectacular. Extrapolate most of his seasons to 140-150 games and he's routinely around the 6 fWAR mark.

[laloesch]

dump the money into pitching. Too many holes at other positions IMO to spend this kind of money on Carlos.  Bye bye Felicia.

[tony&rodney]

Correa for $35 M seems like a ton of money. Right? What did the Twins get from T. Rogers ($6.6), Paddack ($2.2), Pagan ($2.3), Archer ($2.7?), Duffey ($3.8), Bundy ($4), Sanchez ($9), and throw in Mahle + Fulmer? The way that the finances are distributed gets tricky but while many would totally dismiss Cleveland's current strategy of paying Ramirez and surrounding him with young inexpensive talent, there is certainly an argument for the different ways to build a team. The Twins can afford Correa on a long term contract. This is not in dispute. It is a matter of choice.

Whether a baseball player is worth that money is a pointless argument unless one argues for an absolute ceiling on any salary for any individual. That would be a rational argument. The salary numbers of highly paid athletes are hard to fathom but it is a reality of our world and no more or less wild than what many others earn. If the Minnesota Twins choose to finance their team in 2023 for around $120 million, I would sign Correa. If they choose to cut back to around $80 million, Correa is beyond their grasp without wholesale roster moves.

[goulik]

I said it at the beginning of the year and I will say it again, We are fortunate to have been able to watch such an amazing player on our team even if it is for just one season. True baseball fans I would think would appreciate the great plays he made all year while making them look easy and routine.

I enjoy watching baseball. I enjoy watching greatness. I will enjoy every time I get to see Buxton or Correa make great defensive plays no matter how much or how little they are on the field. When they are out there, they are special to watch. I don't need titles to enjoy watching them and I will always hope to be blessed enough to be able to watch players like these for the time we have them. 

My favorite parts of 87 and 91 were not just winning the World Series both those years. When I think of those I think of Kirby's leaping grabs over the wall all year! I remember Jack Morris being a bulldog all year, not jsut in the 10th inning, I remember Gaetti's under appreciated glove work in BOTH series... I could go on and on. I don't just remember the titles, I remember the plays. Just like I remember great plays by Mauer, Hunter, Knoblauch, etc... in non winning seasons. I remember No Hitters and going to the Dome BECAUSE Radke was pitching (for a lousy team I might add)

All this to say, I hope you all enjoyed watching Correa even while the season was VERY disappointing. He is special and I wouldn't mind watching him play for us some more...

[laloesch]

18 minutes ago, tony&rodney said:

Correa for $35 M seems like a ton of money. Right? What did the Twins get from T. Rogers ($6.6), Paddack ($2.2), Pagan ($2.3), Archer ($2.7?), Duffey ($3.8), Bundy ($4), Sanchez ($9), and throw in Mahle + Fulmer? The way that the finances are distributed gets tricky but while many would totally dismiss Cleveland's current strategy of paying Ramirez and surrounding him with young inexpensive talent, there is certainly an argument for the different ways to build a team. The Twins can afford Correa on a long term contract. This is not in dispute. It is a matter of choice.

Whether a baseball player is worth that money is a pointless argument unless one argues for an absolute ceiling on any salary for any individual. That would be a rational argument. The salary numbers of highly paid athletes are hard to fathom but it is a reality of our world and no more or less wild than what many others earn. If the Minnesota Twins choose to finance their team in 2023 for around $120 million, I would sign Correa. If they choose to cut back to around $80 million, Correa is beyond their grasp without wholesale roster moves.

It's still A LOT.  And you are putting A LOT of eggs in one basket, when the rest of the team is like swiss cheese and has about a half dozen holes that could be improved using that same pot of money, particularly the starting pitching.  As you said 9 players give or take for the same amount of money.  Sure they won't be of the same quality as Correa but the point is they will still be able to do it.  Depending on who they bring in they could have several guys that could do reasonably well enough plugin several of those holes vs. ONE star player at ONE position with a big salary.  It's simply a matter of how they allocate their resources.

I do agree with you that technically the Twins can afford it, but that doesn't mean they should knowing they won't add anything else comparable to the roster.   Correa can't carry the entire team offensively, nor can he catch or pitch, which are huge needs right now for this franchise. 

Let's be honest they won't sign him.  So it's all moot anyways.

[farmerguychris]

Carlos is a great player - BUT, with our mid-level payroll - I'd rather pay out 17M to 2 different players that can have twice the impact as one at 35M.  

[Richie the Rally Goat]

12 minutes ago, farmerguychris said:

Carlos is a great player - BUT, with our mid-level payroll - I'd rather pay out 17M to 2 different players that can have twice the impact as one at 35M.  

SS has such a steep drop off, and a long term deal for Correa likely would be significantly less than 35m per year.

would 10 years 275m get it done for Correa? By the end of it he won’t be a SS anymore, but at 27 or 28, he’s got a decent chance to be a good fielding SS for maybe half the contract.

Vs spreading that out over multiple players, but none would be SS.

the quality delta between Correa and Freddy Galvis is HUGE for and incremental 17 to 20 m. The quality delta between Galvis and Palacios is much smaller for an incremental 10m. 

[Battle ur tail off]

1 hour ago, tony&rodney said:

Correa for $35 M seems like a ton of money. Right? What did the Twins get from T. Rogers ($6.6), Paddack ($2.2), Pagan ($2.3), Archer ($2.7?), Duffey ($3.8), Bundy ($4), Sanchez ($9), and throw in Mahle + Fulmer? The way that the finances are distributed gets tricky but while many would totally dismiss Cleveland's current strategy of paying Ramirez and surrounding him with young inexpensive talent, there is certainly an argument for the different ways to build a team. The Twins can afford Correa on a long term contract. This is not in dispute. It is a matter of choice.

Whether a baseball player is worth that money is a pointless argument unless one argues for an absolute ceiling on any salary for any individual. That would be a rational argument. The salary numbers of highly paid athletes are hard to fathom but it is a reality of our world and no more or less wild than what many others earn. If the Minnesota Twins choose to finance their team in 2023 for around $120 million, I would sign Correa. If they choose to cut back to around $80 million, Correa is beyond their grasp without wholesale roster moves.

I have beaten on this drum for many years. Trust your minor leagues and play them instead of bringing in washups or guys that never really were that good and paying them. Sign and trade for only studs and use your minors leagues to fill out the rest of the team. Obviously there are times when you develop a stud and have to pay them too, but either way, you have high end talent surrounded by young hungry guys.

I would much rather have seen some of our minor league arms this year than guys like Pagan, Archer, Joe Smith, etc. There has been a long line of this type of player on the Twins roster making that mid level salary that doesn't perform any better than what you could expect from someone within your system already. 

[chpettit19]

37 minutes ago, Richie the Rally Goat said:

SS has such a steep drop off, and a long term deal for Correa likely would be significantly less than 35m per year.

would 10 years 275m get it done for Correa? By the end of it he won’t be a SS anymore, but at 27 or 28, he’s got a decent chance to be a good fielding SS for maybe half the contract.

Vs spreading that out over multiple players, but none would be SS.

the quality delta between Correa and Freddy Galvis is HUGE for and incremental 17 to 20 m. The quality delta between Galvis and Palacios is much smaller for an incremental 10m. 

Why would he not get the same deal Corey Seager just got? I'd be absolutely shocked if he settled for 10/275 and came in 50 mil lower than Seager. There's no reason to think he won't get the same 10/325 Seager got, or better.

[Mike Sixel]

1 hour ago, farmerguychris said:

Carlos is a great player - BUT, with our mid-level payroll - I'd rather pay out 17M to 2 different players that can have twice the impact as one at 35M.  

Like whom at what position? I don't necessarily disagree....but those players have to be out there to sign (last year? there were pitchers, but that would require long term deals).

[ChineseGandalf]

It would be a terrible decision to pay Correa 30+ million per year on a 8-10 year contract. Looking around the league - how many of these long term deals for stars are actually worth it? There are so many albatrosses around the league on bloated deals. It seems like people are quickly forgetting Joe Mauer's deal (which was hardly insane by any metric). There was a great deal of moaning when Mauer got hurt and did not play up to the end of his deal, even though he certainly did earlier in his contract. 

How long will Correa play at a 30 mil value? He is likely playing there now, but he is in his prime. When you pay for a contract like that, the question is not really whether the player is worth it today, it is whether they are worth it halfway through the contract. 

He almost certainly will not be, and with Royce Lewis likely back at some point next year, I really do not see this making sense for the Twins. 

[Jerr]

Just say goodbye to this "product" that is way overpriced for the Twins. Let alone as to this "products" drop-off, at the end of a long contract.

[notoriousgod71]

4 hours ago, laloesch said:

dump the money into pitching. Too many holes at other positions IMO to spend this kind of money on Carlos.  Bye bye Felicia.

I trust the Twins to pick the correct pitcher less than I trust them to pick a position player. I don't want 35 million for Nathan Eovaldi.

[RpR]

The Twins have had two of the absolute best fielding SS for the past two years, it will be hard to fill that hole.

[Steve71]

I would like the FO to explore a shorter, high annual value type deal, say 5 years.

 

[tony&rodney]

1 hour ago, Steve71 said:

I would like the FO to explore a shorter, high annual value type deal, say 5 years.

 

Like 5 years at $50 M per year?

[ashbury]

3 minutes ago, tony&rodney said:

Like 5 years at $50 M per year?

I was gonna click Like, then was gonna click Ha-Ha, but neither one really gets the point across so I'll just have to post that that's a good way of framing the question.

The player wants to sell the whole watermelon at the highest possible price, while the teams all want to pay for just the sweet, sweet heart of the melon and leave it to others to pay something additional for the rind.

[tony&rodney]

1 minute ago, ashbury said:

I was gonna click Like, then was gonna click Ha-Ha, but neither one really gets the point across so I'll just have to post that that's a good way of framing the question.

The player wants to sell the whole watermelon at the highest possible prices, the teams all want to just pay for the sweet, sweet heart of the melon and leave it to others to pay something for the rind.

Like .... and so true. 

Everyone wants something for nothing. Meanwhile, we keep hearing, "That ain't working ... money for nothing."

[lecroy24fan]

5 minutes ago, tony&rodney said:

Like 5 years at $50 M per year?

I'd offer 4/$140M to start. Same yearly salary but guaranteed. I'd offer an opt out after year 3.

[Brock Beauchamp]

3 hours ago, lecroy24fan said:

I'd offer 4/$140M to start. Same yearly salary but guaranteed. I'd offer an opt out after year 3.

That's a very Twins type offer and I'll leave it at that.

[ICTwin25]

Is Carlos for sure going to get $35MM a year the next two years with another team? No. Is he worth that? No. Would I like to have him back next year? Sure. Fans can be upset by this, even though it was obvious, but don't forget that he's a cheater. If a cheater wants to leave the team I support, then see ya.