Black and White be Gone: Five Positives from the 2022 Twins (Part One)

[Whitey333]

Yes there are plenty of positives in an otherwise nightmarish season of very poor baseball.  I only hope the team doesn't blame everything on injuries and makes no improvements.

[Doctor Gast]

10 hours ago, rv78 said:

Rest does not make a player healthier or stronger. If you want a strong player at the end of the season, improve their conditioning. A runner does not finish a marathon by resting, he finishes it by conditioning his body to the length of the race.  

Stronger may have been the wrong word, more refreshed could be better. Healthier I mean having fewer & less serious injuries.

Conditioning is one thing, the race is another; Marathon is one thing, baseball is another. Don't confuse the difference. Marathon is a day ordeal to win the prize & MLB are months & days.  Knowing one's limits or one that you manage is paramount. A wise person should know this. Cruz's secret to his productivity & longevity is knowing this & the importance of rest.

[tarheeltwinsfan]

16 hours ago, insagt1 said:

Agree about Miranda, Gordon and mostly Gray. And maybe Ryan. There were things to be happy about out of context. I was troubled by the fact that two of our late season recalls (out of necessity) had about 100 combined AB's and could barely hit .100. They were complete failures in the lineup. Didn't expect them to lead the team to greatness, but... uh .100 is pretty bad. I don't think Palacios has had a hit since the Clinton Administration.

When Miranda came up, many of us felt he would not last long. the guy stepped up. Garlick and Larnach were major disappointments in important roles. So was Kepler. Sano was a waste.(injuries took their toll) Kirilloff and Buxton injured severely. Kepler and Polanco injured during the stretch run which fizzled like a spent sparkler on 4th of July. Celestino is nothing more than a career minor leaguer who filled a gap by necessity. Jeffers missed a whole lot of the season but has yet to establish himself.

I know this is a 'positives' thread, but its just so hard to ignore why there weren't more. Duran was a huge plus. Jax and Thielbar were also pretty decent. Jury is out on Fulmer. Lopez flunked. Pagan flunked.

Arraez was Arraez. A guy who always put bat on ball and got his share of hits. He pooped out the final month and I suspect he is really playing more hurt than he is letting on. If he wins the batting title...which is still very much a possiblity, that would be a nice plus.

Don't know how to define Correa. From the time he got here, he was always 'out the door'. that got tiresome. Sort of like the Expos...every year the fans were told they were relocating. Never a good look. He did not live up to his 'contract' or hype until very recently. His numbers will look fine. I don't think he hurt the team that much. Everyone knows he is a top talent.

If Twins overtake Chicago, and if they finish at .500...all things considered....those would be plusses for me.

 

 

I really enjoyed watching Correa play SS. His arm is incredible. His leadership looked to be top notch. And he hit about twice as well as Simmons. I felt better about the team's hustle and competitiveness this year, than any time in the past 5 years. There were too many mental blunders for my liking, especially when running to and from 3B (not throwing anyone under the bus here). While the shift was in use, the stubbornness of several hitters to bunt and/or hit against the shift and the refusal of the manager to order hitting against the shift, drove me crazy. The refusal to hit and run and to steal bases were annoying.  The little things do add up. 

[Trov]

18 hours ago, LastOnePicked said:

"Yet emotions aside, there's an obligation to look at the reality." - And then the article goes on to cherry pick five aspects of the season that were either good (I agree) or overblown. That's not reality - that's blind optimism.

1) Jose Miranda had a solid rookie campaign ... at the plate. However, he's grounded into more double-plays than almost any hitter in baseball and in the field he's not yet what you could call an asset. Did we get a glimpse a fairly promising career? Absolutely. Is he a ROY candidate? Nope.

2) Gray is a solid starter, and I'm glad he's here. But he's a #3 starter on a good team, and that's when he's available. We'll have to see what Petty becomes before we call this trade a win.

3) Gordon is another great story and he's probably my favorite current Twin. But you need your #5 draft picks to produce, and Gordon seems more like a great utility player than a star in the making. 

4) Ryan is maybe the most currently overhyped Twin. He's great against weak opponents, yes. He's also HR-prone, exactly like the scouting reports said. He, too, could be a huge asset to this team as a #4-#5 starter. Sadly, he's being asked to take the #2 slot here.

5) Everything you're saying here has been said about Miguel Sano and Brent Rooker. This team has put a lot of emphasis on slow-speed, two-outcome sluggers. I love that Wallner's getting a chance to play ball at this level, but this team also needs players with speed and defensive chops who can cover OF territory.

But, I will never knock Caleb Thielbar. May he pitch like this until he's 60. Bless him.

Sorry for the cold water on the rest, but as you so elegantly stated, there's an obligation to look at the reality, too. We'll have to see what next year brings to these potentially promising developments.

I will agree with the Miranda take, he showed he could be a bat, but still has much room to grow.  If you take out his first few weeks it looks even better, but he is not a superstar yet.  In terms of the Gray take, I would say he can be a 1 or 2 on a winning team, but it requires a good pen as well, something we were not great with this year.  Gordon I have to fully disagree with the requirement of your number 5 picks having to be stars. 

First, just looking at his draft, the number 1 and number 2 drafted guys never even made the majors, and the number 6 has done basically nothing.  The number 1 pick was by Houston who had back to back number 1 picks that did nothing for them and they still doing just fine.  I will agree it does not help when your high first round picks are not all-stars, but they are not required to be for team success.  In terms of Gordon himself, he finally was given a real shot at this level, and he produced above replacement level.  He really only was given a full chance later in the year.  He has only played 70 full games out of the 130 he has played.  He started about 100. So he was still not given a full run all season, but still put up a 1.6 WAR, if he was given a full season of playing full games, provided he had similar numbers, he would be around a 3 WAR I would guess, that is not too bad, is it elite no, but it is better than many.  Sure, he may not do that over a full year and maybe he did well based on his use, but I expect if he is given a real shot over the next 4 to 5 years he will be good to great.  Will he carry the team, doubtful, but I would be more than willing to see him hitting in the bottom half the lineup regularly. 

Ryan, I think it will come down to how much more he develops at the MLB level.  I am hopeful a full spring training where he can work with coaches to really develop a second pitch should help him.  If he can develop a second pitch he will be just fine. 

I agree with Wallner, lets wait and see on him.  Sure he has done fine in minors and had a nice little story so far, but I am not counting on him to help much next year, as he will strike out a ton, and once more tape is on him, he will need to adjust quickly. 

[tarheeltwinsfan]

58 minutes ago, Doctor Gast said:

When you run a race, you run to win. I never suggested shutting him down, that'd be counter productive in this case because we want him to qualify. Just rest him when facing LHPs & when they played him at 2B, of course being aware of his PAs. Hopefully he can still win it, but with much more difficulty.

In 1941. Ted Williams was hitting .3995 entering into the last day of the season when the Red Sox had a doubleheader. scheduled. He could have sat out those last 2 games, and his average would have rounded up to .400. But Williams insisted on playing. He went 4 for 5 and raised his average up to .404. He could have sat out the second game of the doubleheader, but again, Williams insisted on playing the second game also. He went 2 for 3 and raised his average to .406. Ted Williams was arguably the best hitter ever to play baseball. But he was also a fierce competitor. He not only competed against the other team, but he was competing against himself. He wanted to be the best he could be. He had the same mentality about his service to our country as a Marine fighter pilot on both WWII and the Korean War. He had the same mentality about becoming a world class fisherman. I admire that trait and I want men like him on my team and in my foxhole with me. As far as Arraez goes, bat him first every remaining game, no matter who the pitcher is. Allow  Arraez to compete, like Ted Williams. Arraez will either win the batting title this year or he will lose it. But this way he will always be able to look in the mirror and say, "I didn't quit. I tried my best. I fought the good fight."  Good luck Luis. All of us at Twins Daily are pulling for you. 

[Scott51104]

" I don't think Palacios has had a hit since the Clinton Administration."

I was going to comment that it was either the administration before or after Clinton, but that would be bush.

[old nurse]

17 hours ago, mnfireman said:

Correct. The same guys on here complaining about three true outcomes are complaining about a kid who puts the ball in play ?‍♂️?‍♂️. Yes, the GIDP will and has killed rallies, but a ball in play at least has a chance....

If you look at the GIDP numbers the leaders are middle of the order power type hitters. Not exactly the guys who beat out throws

 

A long time ago someone looked at a fairly large window of time. The average number of base runners driven in was 15%. The career best at that time was Josh Hamilton at 19%. IIRC one year Cabrera was at 14%. I am sure the FO analytics guys could tell the current numbers by base position and outs. 

[Minfidel]

18 hours ago, mnfireman said:

Correct. The same guys on here complaining about three true outcomes are complaining about a kid who puts the ball in play ?‍♂️?‍♂️. Yes, the GIDP will and has killed rallies, but a ball in play at least has a chance....

The Twins noted Miranda's ability to put the bat on the ball early in his minor league career, but that he was not getting hard hits. They told him to work on waiting for the right pitches and he did, going on to have a remarkable minor league season. Now he's in the bigs, showing power and presence; I wouldn't be surprised if he gets more refined in pitch selection as his career goes on, and the GIDP rate to dip. 

[Minfidel]

Miranda is fun to watch and a great story. I keep thinking he looks a bit soft, physically, and could use an off-season work out routine such as Arraez went through last year. Then again, this "softie" didn't miss any time with injuries this season - unlike our more physically imposing players. 

[TwinsAce]

16 hours ago, tony&rodney said:

Wallner sure needs to improve his defense and he could with a bunch of hard work/ repetitions at fly balls, line drives, hard hit balls, and bloops. He can improve. He does cover a fair amount of ground already but isn't smooth yet.  I'm more concerned that he let his natural strength work with a smoothed out swing path to reduce the strikeouts. Wallner is not slow, at all. In fact, according to the link, Wallner is faster than Royce Lewis. We have already seen Wallner get one infield hit due to his speed.

https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/leaderboard/sprint_speed?min_season=2022&max_season=2022&position=&team=MIN&min=10

We've been spoiled with Kepler's range, but I'm excited about Wallner (or someone like him) roaming right field.  At least at Target Field, RF is a smaller space.  If he can limit the close play errors/mistakes (like diving for the ball when he doesn't have a chance, missing the ball on a grounder, etc.) and learn how to play the RF wall, his arm should rack up the assists at both 2nd and potentially 3rd/home.  And like you said, it isn't like Wallner is slow.  (If anything, his stature and maybe less flexibility at 6'5" seems to show up?)

[old nurse]

My bet is for 4 designs. One will be the traditional kind , one some shade of blue, one to appeal to the Hispanics, one for the urban/younger crowd. They will be different than anything before as they want to sell merchandise.  

[DocBauer]

We've had enough in disappoinent the past 2 months as to how this really fun year ended souly. I think it's great to have an OP like this...awaiting part 2...to celebrate the good things that happened.

I'm SO impressed by Miranda! And he's only going to get better with experience. Amazing how being sent down for a single day and then coming right back suddenly turned on a switch. I think his defense at 1B has really improved the last half of the year. I'm still wondering if Lee doesn't turn out to be the long term answer at 3B, but personally, I've seen enough from Miranda at 3B that I think he's OK there as well and will continue to get better. 

I like Gray a lot! And not just on the field. I really like his leadership and the way he instituted all the rotation arms to watch the day's SP warm up. He looked dominate at times and OK at others. Being available for 28 starts would make me like him more.

Gordon is a great story that just has to make you smile. The kid has been through an awful lot. And all he's done is work hard and do whatever has been asked of him. Learn to play the OF on the fly? No problem! He's shown he can hit and run and play decent defense anywhere he's put. He's even got some pop/power developing and while I don't have numbers in front of me, it just seems as though his OB/recognition ability has grown a bit as the season has gone along. He needs to refine his baserunning more to take advantage of his speed. And I'm not sure he's ever going to be GREAT defensively anywhere in particular, but he's OK about anywhere with room to improve.

I say "cool the jets" on Ryan being any kind of ACE. They are very rare! And a large number of them seem to come out of nowhere as a guy just suddenly "clicks" between stuff and knowledge to become something special in his late 20's and early 30's. Ryan is talented, affable, and determined. His fastball is real, despite not amazing velocity. And there's no way you can ignore one of the best recent rookie seasons in Twins history. But while his secondary offerings are solid and sometimes excellent, it's that inconsistency he needs to work on. The vast number of fouled pitches seem to be proof of that. I don't know how good he will eventually be, and I've said many times trying to project someone to be an ACE or even #1 is almost always a fools errand, but I do expect continued growth and improvement from him.

Lastly, it is very cool to see Minnesota natives making a mark for the "home team". Despite being on the wrong side of 30, Thielbar is very, very good. I think he's vastly underrated. As long as the velocity sticks around, he's got time left in his arm. Easy to be excited about both Varland and Wallner.

 

[IndianaTwin]

12 hours ago, TwinsAce said:

We've been spoiled with Kepler's range, but I'm excited about Wallner (or someone like him) roaming right field.  At least at Target Field, RF is a smaller space.  If he can limit the close play errors/mistakes (like diving for the ball when he doesn't have a chance, missing the ball on a grounder, etc.) and learn how to play the RF wall, his arm should rack up the assists at both 2nd and potentially 3rd/home.  And like you said, it isn't like Wallner is slow.  (If anything, his stature and maybe less flexibility at 6'5" seems to show up?)

Oops. Written before the dive in the third inning today, right? ?

[TwinsAce]

8 hours ago, IndianaTwin said:

Oops. Written before the dive in the third inning today, right? ?

Haha, for sure.  And yet, the throw home on a line from the warning track shows how dangerous he could be in RF eventually.

[RpR]

IF, again IF he makes the concerted effort to improve his play the way Judge has, he could be a vey big name in the future.

[insagt1]

I liked the illustration of Ted Williams in 1941. If ever there was a need for co-MVP's it was 1941. Two guys performing feats that will never be repeated. Joe D won the award because 1)he was a Yankee and 2) Williams had a terrible relationship with the press. It will always be debated which 'feat' was harder or more pressure packed. Arraez has sat out the last 2 games, but he needs to play all 3 of the Twins final games. Go out and WIN the title; don't sit back and hope someone else loses it. This has been such a sorry season for the Twins overall, they need something positive to look forward to in these final 3 games.