Baldelli will be back in 2023

[CRF]

Not a surprise. Falvey announced it yesterday. Can't say I'm thrilled. Of course Falvey and Levine aren't going anywhere either. I'd guess that some of the coaches won't be as lucky, along with possibly the training/medical staff too. Someone has to take the fall. OH BOY! Get ready for more Rocco-Ball next season....I can hardly wait. 

[FrankQuilicy]

3 minutes ago, CRF said:

Not a surprise. Falvey announced it yesterday. Can't say I'm thrilled. Of course Falvey and Levine aren't going anywhere either. I'd guess that some of the coaches won't be as lucky, along with possibly the training/medical staff too. Someone has to take the fall. OH BOY! Get ready for more Rocco-Ball next season....I can hardly wait. 

yeah it's early yet....when falvey and levine get fired then rocco goes too

[Blyleven2011]

Now that is a confirmed defining moment  ...

They only want to compete and not contend  , I wish they would have waited until the season was over to announce it ....

To many disappointments in September already  ....

[gman]

Good. Excellent. I'm glad he'll be back.

[FlyingFinn]

We must remove Tommy Watkins as the 3rd base coach.

[tony&rodney]

There are basically two problems that destroyed the Twins this season: 1) The Plan and 2) lack of fundamentals.

Injuries are a part of the game and every year we see players sidelined across baseball. Maybe Boston didn't win because James Paxton was hurt. So I'm discounting the injuries because good teams plan ahead.

The AL Central has been very weak for several years and in the final year of the unbalanced schedule a division win was wide open. Next year the balanced schedule and expected improvements from all of the teams in the AL Central will make it more challenging for the Twins to win games. The Twins can improve too though.

It should not be actually necessary to remove the front office and coaching staff this October/November in order for the Twins to be improved in 2023. It is necessary to address the major faults of the team. The Twins are within sight of many teams in the average innings per start but they are still well below the average and the insistence on short starts in the face of the game on the field is a glaring error. This is compounded when one recognizes that Jhoan Duran will not pitch every inning of every game after the starters are pulled. I'm not opposed to yanking an ineffective or tiring starter at all. The lifting of a starter who is still effective is nonsense. The Plan is a total fail and I'm going to say that getting 4+ innings from your starting pitchers every single game would ensure future failure if that strategy were to be used again. MLB has hinted that this is not what they want by limiting pitching staffs to 13 arms per team. Maybe a further move to a limit of 10 arms with stricter rules on the shuttle between the majors and minors is in order. The front office and coaching staff are capable of reflection and this is an area where the Twins could improve with dramatic positive outcomes.

Spring Training was shortened in 2022 due to the lockout. Next February we should expect to see a total emphasis on fundamentals in the Twins camp. Knowing where to throw the ball makes a difference. Hitting the cutoff makes a difference. Tagging up to score makes a difference. Running into outs where you are out by 20 feet makes a difference. Backing up on every play makes a difference. Moving a runner over makes a difference. There are a dozen more but you get the idea. Correa has been coaching players during the game more than we should ever see at the major league level. The 2022 Twins might have been the worst fundamentally run team in Twins history. It is one thing to have very little talent and another to lack fundamentals. Many Twins teams have lacked talent and had low payrolls. There is fair talent and the support via payroll has never been higher. Just one example as a comparison sticks out to me. Recently, Josh Naylor went first to third on a line drive to centerfield a few minutes after Celestino pulled up at second base on a blooper to right field. Fundamental baseball still  works.

Change can happen. Running back the same strategies cannot bring any modicum of success.

[Nashvilletwin]

2 hours ago, FrankQuilicy said:

yeah it's early yet....when falvey and levine get fired then rocco goes too

Kind of a shot across the bow perhaps? A bit of - “it’s all of us or none” maybe?

Pohlads are too smart - they must see Rocco is not the right leader for their type of ball club - mid market and young. To win, they know the team has to play better fundamentals and have a stronger in-game manager. Rocco’s skill base might be better with a high priced slugging team with lots of veteran leadership and maybe some big egos. That’s not the Twins.

Regardless, expect more throwing the ball around, endless base running gaffes, not moving base runners over, poor pitching management, etc, etc.  Why would it change? Every team under Rocco has exhibited these traits. 

[D.C Twins]

Just as I predicted on a previous post.... he'll come back for another year.

BUT after continued uninspired leadership with minimal agility, flexibility, and in game adjustments (to include pitcher use), he'll be fired after NEXT year by the FO because they will have to so they can keep their own jobs for another year.

Sadly, this is as predictable as the end of most one hour shows on TV. 

[Blyleven2011]

1 hour ago, tony&rodney said:

 

1 hour ago, tony&rodney said:

There are basically two problems that destroyed the Twins this season: 1) The Plan and 2) lack of fundamentals.

The 2022 Twins might have been the worst fundamentally run team in Twins history. 

Change can happen. Running back the same strategies cannot bring any modicum of success.

Good write up ...

Baseball is a business  , in business class you are taught to come up with a plan and not deviate from it ....

Well that Plan wasted this season 

 

[Nashvilletwin]

3 hours ago, FlyingFinn said:

We must remove Tommy Watkins as the 3rd base coach.

Agree, but that’s not really going to move the dial.

[Vanimal46]

As much as I’d like to clean house now, I had no expectation Jim Pohlad would do it. Please don’t double down and give any extensions. 

[wabene]

Everybody's got an opinion, right? I know mine is very unpopular among the vocal majority, but that is ok with me, I've never been much for following the crowd anyway. I like Rocco Baldelli and am glad he is returning. The team needs to improve in many of the areas mentioned such as the mental errors and the third base coaching etc. However if we are going the have the starters go longer that is on the front office and talent acquisition. Berrios piled up the innings under this staff. I can see Joe Ryan doing the same with a little more pitch efficiency. The bullpen is on them as well. The bullpen needs to be addressed with far more urgency and capital. A good right handed bat for the outfield not named Garlick. 

I will be watching this off-season. Will they sit on their hands during free-agency waiting till the eleventh hour for a last minute deal? Or will they act more purposefully? They are going to have money to spend, will they make the most of it? If it's more of the same next year then I will be ready to move on. Yes this was as a frustrating season. 

[ashbury]

I don't claim to understand the structure of the Front Office.  But Thad Levine must be very, very comfortable as nominal General Manager in rarely being the face of the team when key announcements are made.

[rwilfong86]

Disappointed by the Twins lack of commitment to winning. 

[cHawk]

Introducing Roccobot version 1.5!

[Mike Sixel]

54 minutes ago, rwilfong86 said:

Disappointed by the Twins lack of commitment to winning. 

You don't think they want to win?

They won the division twice with Rocco, and lost it twice. I can see why they brought him back, whether I agree or not.

But to claim, as two people now have, they don't care if they win? Most likely not true.

[RpR]

The only way he will be let go is if they lose every single from today on, but the Twins from way back have a tendency to do very poorly in September often.

[rwilfong86]

1 hour ago, Mike Sixel said:

You don't think they want to win?

They won the division twice with Rocco, and lost it twice. I can see why they brought him back, whether I agree or not.

But to claim, as two people now have, they don't care if they win? Most likely not true.

Apparently not, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing and expecting a different result, and what they're doing, in bringing Rocco back, is insanity. The last 2 seasons are the direct result of Rocco's management and expecting anything to be different in 2023, without a player like Correa, will be exactly the same result as the past 2 seasons: losing. 

[Squirrel]

7 minutes ago, rwilfong86 said:

Apparently not, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing and expecting a different result, and what they're doing, in bringing Rocco back, is insanity. The last 2 seasons are the direct result of Rocco's management and expecting anything to be different in 2023, without a player like Correa, will be exactly the same result as the past 2 seasons: losing. 

You should apply for the GM job so we will for sure win it all

[rwilfong86]

1 hour ago, Mike Sixel said:

They won the division twice with Rocco, and lost it twice. I can see why they brought him back, whether I agree or not.

Let's take a look at Rocco's managerial results. In 2019 the Twins were successful because they had a handful of players overperform and have career years, e.g. Garver, Kepler, Rosario on their way to the homerun record then were swept in the playoffs. 2020 was the Covid year, if the season would have been 2 more games they wouldn't have won the division, then again were swept in the playoffs by an Astros team that was under .500 for that short season. 2021 revealed Rocco’s incompetence in managing a pitching staff because the team wasn't hitting 6 homeruns a game like in 2019 and they weren't playing all of their games against the AL and NL Central like 2020. 2022 has been a combination of injuries and incompetence with a much better lineup on paper than they had in 2021. Even with the injuries, they had a chance but lost too many winnable games by pulling pitchers too early to see the bullpen get shelled and relying too much on pitchers like Pagan and Duffey in high leverage situations when they proved to be unreliable. A manager who could manage a pitching staff correctly would have this team with a 10 game division lead right now like Cleveland will probably end up with. I am guessing next season will be 2021-2022 Part 3. But the bright side is they can't add to their playoff losing streak if they don't make the playoffs. 

[rwilfong86]

5 minutes ago, Squirrel said:

You should apply for the GM job so we will for sure win it all

What the team needs is a front office and management staff that doesn't sell it's soul to analytics at the expense of common sense. 

[Squirrel]

2 minutes ago, rwilfong86 said:

What the team needs is a front office and management staff that doesn't sell it's soul to analytics at the expense of common sense. 

I wouldn’t go so far as the hyperbolic soul selling but I agree, somewhat. Analytics have always been a part of the game and always will. I don’t even think it’s about common sense or not, but maybe better interpreters of what the analytics say, and being able to adjust approach instead instead of adhering too strictly to one path 

[rwilfong86]

1 minute ago, Squirrel said:

I wouldn’t go so far as the hyperbolic soul selling but I agree, somewhat. Analytics have always been a part of the game and always will. I don’t even think it’s about common sense or not, but maybe better interpreters of what the analytics say, and being able to adjust approach instead instead of adhering too strictly to one path 

I think common sense says when my plan doesn't work, I should change the plan, not keep executing the plan which leads to failure. I think had there been adjustments made early in the season they wouldn't be in the position they are in now. 

[Squirrel]

14 minutes ago, rwilfong86 said:

I think common sense says when my plan doesn't work, I should change the plan, not keep executing the plan which leads to failure. I think had there been adjustments made early in the season they wouldn't be in the position they are in now. 

Fair enough ... but I don't think it's either/or. Analytics are necessary. I don't think it's as much about common sense, but I get your take on that, as it is about those interpreting the data, perhaps suggesting an incorrect course.

[Mark G]

32 minutes ago, rwilfong86 said:

Apparently not, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing and expecting a different result, and what they're doing, in bringing Rocco back, is insanity. The last 2 seasons are the direct result of Rocco's management and expecting anything to be different in 2023, without a player like Correa, will be exactly the same result as the past 2 seasons: losing. 

 

1 hour ago, Mike Sixel said:

You don't think they want to win?

They won the division twice with Rocco, and lost it twice. I can see why they brought him back, whether I agree or not.

But to claim, as two people now have, they don't care if they win? Most likely not true.

Sorry, no credit for '20.  We went 36-24(.600) in an extremely shortened season.  I have said this before; we started this season 30-20 (.600) and faded.  No way to know how '20 would have gone, but we cannot assume it would have continued based on the last two years.  And since '19, the year of the 307 home runs that we have lived off of for the last 3 years, we are 182-191 including '20.  Sorry, but the preponderance of evidence suggests something isn't working.  

But as for Rocco being back, I not only expected it going into next year, but as the boss said, next year and beyond.

Reminds me of the famous words of the great philosopher..........Buzz Lightyear........."to infinity and beyond!"

That is our future.    

[rwilfong86]

4 minutes ago, Squirrel said:

Fair enough ... but I don't think it's either/or. Analytics are necessary. I don't think it's as much about common sense, but I get your take on that, as it is about those interpreting the data, perhaps suggesting an incorrect course.

For example, if your bullpen is unreliable, why consistently pull starters who are cruising after 5 innings to give your unreliable bullpen more opportunities to implode? I don't care what analytics say about the third time through the order, at least give them a chance to get some extra outs. It's things like that that I find so frustrating, especially when you see Terry Francona let his guys pitch into the 7th and 8th inning on a frequent basis.

[Mark G]

2 minutes ago, Squirrel said:

Fair enough ... but I don't think it's either/or. Analytics are necessary. I don't think it's as much about common sense, but I get your take on that, as it is about those interpreting the data, perhaps suggesting an incorrect course.

I understand your take as well,  Scouts have been taking and keeping notes on opposing teams and players and keeping them in notebooks since the 1800's.  They would go over the pitcher that day and the opposing lineup before coming out on the field for warmups, and keep reminding themselves throughout the game, especially as relief pitchers or substitutes in the lineup came in.  Today we put those notes into a computer and spit out spread sheets we call analytics.  The difference is, in this extremely humble observer's opinion, that teams are more wedded to the plan going in, and less willing to change the plan as the game progresses.  There was much more of an eye test back in the day to compliment the plan going in than we might see today.  In game and, for that matter, in series adjustments to the plan are what this EHO sees lacking and sorely needed.  I, and others, question Rocco's willingness and/or ability to adjust game by game, inning by inning, at bat by at bat, and even pitch by pitch.  Someone more able and/or willing to do so would make a difference in this humble observer's opinion.  

[Squirrel]

18 minutes ago, Mark G said:

I understand your take as well,  Scouts have been taking and keeping notes on opposing teams and players and keeping them in notebooks since the 1800's.  They would go over the pitcher that day and the opposing lineup before coming out on the field for warmups, and keep reminding themselves throughout the game, especially as relief pitchers or substitutes in the lineup came in.  Today we put those notes into a computer and spit out spread sheets we call analytics.  The difference is, in this extremely humble observer's opinion, that teams are more wedded to the plan going in, and less willing to change the plan as the game progresses.  There was much more of an eye test back in the day to compliment the plan going in than we might see today.  In game and, for that matter, in series adjustments to the plan are what this EHO sees lacking and sorely needed.  I, and others, question Rocco's willingness and/or ability to adjust game by game, inning by inning, at bat by at bat, and even pitch by pitch.  Someone more able and/or willing to do so would make a difference in this humble observer's opinion.  

I think it's a pendulum swing. It went too far ... now has to come back. It's always about finding the balance. And for you and others, as has been said as many times as has your questioning Rocco's decisions, it's a FO philosophy that needs adjustment, for sure. I have never said otherwise. But, it's not Rocco doing this alone, imo. But he is part of the whole and the whole needs to adjust. As has already been confirmed, Rocco is coming back next season, and likely will as long as Falvey and Levine are employed. If not Rocco, it will still be someone who executes the way the FO office wants. I just hope this off-season, someone can supply the right tweaks. I've never denied that there were times I think the starter could have been left in for longer, but, the fault really lies with the pitchers we had, more than anything else, imo. The number of times a pitcher could have gone longer, I just don't think equates and correlates alone to the number of losses we've had and I don't think it's simply a common sense issue, either. Had we had a reliable and durable BP, some of this may not have been as much of an issue.

And none of these decisions I think equates to them not committed to winning, as someone suggested above, just because they don't do as we think they should. We all have our opinions on that, but I don't agree with that conclusion.

[rwilfong86]

5 minutes ago, Squirrel said:

I think it's a pendulum swing. It went too far ... now has to come back. It's always about finding the balance.

I don't think the pendulum has come back. The batting order for tonight's game is another example of the inconsistency which has marred this team all season.

My statement about the disappointment that the front office isn't committed to winning is based on the outcome of where their emphasis on analytics has gotten the team the past two seasons. If they're truly committed to winning, we will see observable change in the way the the team is run next season. 

[Irishman]

11 hours ago, CRF said:

Not a surprise. Falvey announced it yesterday. Can't say I'm thrilled. Of course Falvey and Levine aren't going anywhere either. I'd guess that some of the coaches won't be as lucky, along with possibly the training/medical staff too. Someone has to take the fall. OH BOY! Get ready for more Rocco-Ball next season....I can hardly wait. 

I’m very disappointed with Pohlad’s apparent decision to retain Falvey and Levine.  Now I’m questioning FO’s commitment for 2023 and beyond.